V-Flyer

Link to the flyertalk announcement and BA website below. Fair to say the changes are not good. Increased amounts of Avios needed for reward bookings, introducing higher rates of Avios needed for 'peak' travelers (teachers and families it seems) and lower Avios earning rates in Economy.

For example JFK is now 100k return in Club, rather than 80k. Wonder how long it'll be before VS matches...

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british- ... anges.html

http://www.britishairways.com/executive ... ub-changes

There are some positives for me as a gold. I likethe fact that silver and gold have a differential in tier bonus and that people who buy the more expensive tickets earn more. That just seems fairer. Also with less Avios points around reward flights should be easier to get. It could also fe argued that because peak requires more Avios that people who don't need to travel in the school holidays will now choose off peak rewards. Finally we just need to loose had Tesco tourists and the club should run fine

These changes benefits Blue members more than silver in terms of Avios earning!
Strange.

Some big changes, 400,000 Avios F return to SYD! But they are now guaranteeing 15% of seats available on all flights for redemptions, excluding F though...

Hmmm - these changes appear to have targeted non-business flying Silver members (like me!).

I do enough leisure flying in high enough cabins to achieve AG - with these changes, my benefits in terms of Avios earned for flying are reduced, and some of the flights I take will reduce in tier point earning so that I will find it more idficult to retain Silver.

Oh well!

When the dust settles, the actual reality of things won't change that much, I will just get less reward flights (which I've done very well on over the past few years), so all good things and all that...

Hamster wrote:These changes benefits Blue members more than silver in terms of Avios earning!
Strange.

Some big changes, 400,000 Avios F return to SYD! But they are now guaranteeing 15% of seats available on all flights for redemptions, excluding F though...

How do you get 15%?

Concorde RIP wrote:Hmmm - these changes appear to have targeted non-business flying Silver members (like me!).

That was my view too. Overall though, it's a reduction for most unless you're on high fare class business travel. But then that's all the airlines really want from people anyway.

It did strike me that some of the changes made it more like Flying Club! But my big fear is that VS will typically perform a copycat revision, especially for example to UC RT US redemptions (which have all gone up on BA (even the off peak ones say to NY are higher than they were).

I do like the one word thread on FT though!

United have done similar, they are all doing the same in the race to the bottom. Oh well, it was all good while it lasted.

tontybear wrote:

Hamster wrote:These changes benefits Blue members more than silver in terms of Avios earning!
Strange.

Some big changes, 400,000 Avios F return to SYD! But they are now guaranteeing 15% of seats available on all flights for redemptions, excluding F though...

How do you get 15%?

Sorry, this is a figure a staff member had told me, I hadn't realised it wasn't on the BA.com website. But they do put 500,000 more reward seats will be available over the year.

Right, so if/when VS start copying, what do we think the result will be?

My guesses (hopefully not all of these!):

1) Current US RT UC 80k reward redemptions move to 100k
2) Au qualifies at 50 TPs, Ag at 20 TPs
3) Other than UC (J,C,D buckets) all other fare classes drop down 1 TP per sector. i.e. Y (in V,E,Q,X,N,O buckets) starts at 1 TP etc.
4) Ag drops to 25% bonus
5) Upgrades limited to one cabin only (i.e the end of the M-G upgrade)

The reason I don't think all of these will come into effect is that FC still has to have some appeal for infrequent/leisure pax and also those who don't fly frequently, but enjoy a good bargain on J fares, and those - like me - who are self-employed frequent flyers and who value the benefits of J travel (and price it into my work), but would/could not pay for full-fare J all the time.

As an aside, I also wonder whether VS will start a FC level above Au. By which I don't mean something quasi-secretive like UNIQ, but maybe Au Platinum. In which case, I think some of the current Au benefits would be folded into that and current Au might be devalued.

slinky09 wrote:

Concorde RIP wrote:Hmmm - these changes appear to have targeted non-business flying Silver members (like me!).

That was my view too. Overall though, it's a reduction for most unless you're on high fare class business travel. But then that's all the airlines really want from people anyway.

It did strike me that some of the changes made it more like Flying Club! But my big fear is that VS will typically perform a copycat revision, especially for example to UC RT US redemptions (which have all gone up on BA (even the off peak ones say to NY are higher than they were).

I do like the one word thread on FT though!

Agreed, it's going to affect business travellers as well. I don't know that many employers that pay full J or even Y as standard (although if anyone would like to compile a list, I promise to give it my full attention ). My corporate TA will happily push me towards Zs on VS and Is on BA if available, and also Os for my domestics.

Right now one of the significant BA benefits is that I have a fairly decent lounge to get some breakfast in after getting up at 4am for a shuttle to BHD; and no hassle of claiming back expenses for food/drink. Fortunately I can still maintain silver despite the current changes, but if it pushed me below that threshhold, I might as well go Easyjet or Aer Lingus. After all, I'll end up with half the TPs per trip and as low as 18.75% of the Avios (375 for a BHD run in O class as a silver, versus 2000 today )

Hamster wrote:

tontybear wrote:

Hamster wrote:These changes benefits Blue members more than silver in terms of Avios earning!
Strange.

Some big changes, 400,000 Avios F return to SYD! But they are now guaranteeing 15% of seats available on all flights for redemptions, excluding F though...

How do you get 15%?

Sorry, this is a figure a staff member had told me, I hadn't realised it wasn't on the BA.com website. But they do put 500,000 more reward seats will be available over the year.

Ah right. There are going to be more reward seats available (they mention an extra 500,000 and that could be 15% more) but not that 15% of each flight will be reward seats (which is what you wrote).

The two are very different things indeed

Discount business class still earns the same. Full fare now earns more 250% It's the tier point bonus that will be less for silver than gold.

tontybear wrote:
Ah right. There are going to be more reward seats available (they mention an extra 500,000 and that could be 15% more) but not that 15% of each flight will be reward seats (which is what you wrote).

The two are very different things indeed

I thought the detail said that at least two economy and two club world seats would be available on each LH flight, with no guarantee on WT+ or First (other than no change). That doesn't make 15%!

Personally, having just gone over (silver for 2 weeks now), all the good benefits are gone apart from the 2 for 1 (My god what a party there would be if that was made useful by Virgin).

I TP ran for silver (not gold because I was doing it for the bonus, 100% is so much more, VS silver means little in comparison now) for the 100% bonus. I can't see any reasonable way for me to TP run to gold for Virgin though, for 100% on them.

Redemption seemed good. But went back to check Virgins afterwards and found the likes of SFO/LAX far better, and Virgin had improved.

But they've just boosted the redemption cost massively (I reckon 25%/50% as massive). I was looking at 2 for 1 on First to West Coast at least, possible 2x Club to Oz if I was lucky earning, and could get them before this.

Now I'm looking at Club to the US.

Some of the things like WT+ to Club upgrades have gone up massively too. Not sure exactly, but over 100%.

tontybear wrote:Ah right. There are going to be more reward seats available (they mention an extra 500,000 and that could be 15% more) but not that 15% of each flight will be reward seats (which is what you wrote).

The two are very different things indeed

They are very different, and I have seen the bit about 2 seats in Club, 4 (?) in economy being available, with no guarantees on F and WT+.

But from what I have been told by staff, they were told 15% minimum on each flight, when it goes on sale. I guess what they have told the public is much more true!

The biggest advantage for me over the VS flying club is BA european flights and more long haul destinations.

Can't say I'm that surprised with this and it could have been worse. What's buzzing around my paranoid little mind though is that, when they hive AVIOS off things will get a lot worse.

I'm going to miss the 210 TPs for the CWLCY service.

For a person like me who mainly earns with economy domestic flights and can only spend miles during this school holidays this is a terrible move. They've essentially rendered all my miles worthless and I'll earn even less in future. Even worse for people like me who don't live in London as it'll cost even more for the connecting flight. Now 18,000 miles for Glasow to Europe.

Nice summary of it here
http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... ?CMP=fb_gu

NYLON wrote:Right, so if/when VS start copying, what do we think the result will be?

My guesses (hopefully not all of these!):

1) Current US RT UC 80k reward redemptions move to 100k
2) Au qualifies at 50 TPs, Ag at 20 TPs
3) Other than UC (J,C,D buckets) all other fare classes drop down 1 TP per sector. i.e. Y (in V,E,Q,X,N,O buckets) starts at 1 TP etc.
4) Ag drops to 25% bonus
5) Upgrades limited to one cabin only (i.e the end of the M-G upgrade)

I think its the case of BA copying Virgin here, the VS FF scheme having been much worse, especially for the likes of Silver status.

Previously you'd get twice the miles and lounge access with BA Silver. You'll get seat choice for free (some use for Y passengers flying virgin equivalent), of course PE and UC still has them for free at the moment, but personally I'd not be bothered what seat I was in in UC. I care a lot about it in Club though.

I suppose virgin's silver has been much easier to earn though. Picked it up via 1.5 UC returns.

VS Gold is pointless except for the miles if flying UC (BA Gold could get you into First lounge). But then again, the lounges in general. One VS lounge much more than one BA First lounge).

I've ran a BA silver TP run (seems pointless now), but can't ever see myself doing a Virgin one. If it even made sense. And I travelled with them a lot (then again, why I need to).

So in detail:

1) This is possible. Didn't VS drop these a few years ago anyway, probably in response to BA.

2) There's been no overall TP dropping for BA with this change so think that isn't relevant. Or Tier qualification point raising.

3) I don't think cheapest fare Club has had its TP earning change. So not equivalent.

4) Ag was already half of Au earning. So this is BA doing a VS.

5) To be fair, VS limits upgrade to fare classes which are pretty much priced as the next flight class. So you'll pay a sale PE price for an upgradable economy, sale UC price for an upgradable PE ticket. It's a different way of doing the same thing BA is doing. So its already got its equivalent policy in place. If BA limits its upgradable fares to a few fare codes, then perhaps that would be equivalent.

And the Guardian weighs in. Now, I'm a dyed in the wool Guardianista, but how do they conflate "business" with "expense account" flying. I fly on an expense account, but only ever in Economy (unless I service my own upgrades).

I have to say that this will discourage me from looking at BA on the corporate travel site. And just when I had got used to the idea!

Fuzzy14 wrote:For a person like me who mainly earns with economy domestic flights and can only spend miles during this school holidays this is a terrible move. They've essentially rendered all my miles worthless and I'll earn even less in future. Even worse for people like me who don't live in London as it'll cost even more for the connecting flight. Now 18,000 miles for Glasow to Europe.

Nice summary of it here
http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... ?CMP=fb_gu

Yep, that pretty much sums up my situation as well. As I mentioned upthread, I'm typically not even going to be earning 20% of my current avios for BHD runs by the end of this year. I sense the need to book a lot of flights before the 28th April!

The only vaguely ok thing about this is that RFS redemptions for the shorter EU routes are intact (for now), which is what I've been using my avios for to date.

At least there's still Tesco. Interesting if potentially irrelevant fact, but for a BA Blue, to earn 250 Avios in future:

- Cheapest regular O class return LHR-BHD right now = £126.43
- Equivalent regular spend in Tesco required (@2.4 avios per clubcard penny conversion rate) = £104.16

Maybe I'll just stay at home in future... I'm sure I'm being naive, but you might reasonably expect that an airline's own FF scheme would give better earning rates for flying with them than NOT flying with them...

Smid wrote:I think its the case of BA copying Virgin here, the VS FF scheme having been much worse, especially for the likes of Silver status.

Really interesting Smid. I've never really equated the names BA gave for its loyalty tiers with names Virgin uses. For example, I've always thought BA Silver was roughly was the same as VS Au. And BA Bronze was nearer to VS Silver. BA Gold would equal some mythical tier above VS Au, such as "VS Platinum".

I suppose in VS's case we should really be looking at how VS might harmonise FC with DL SkyMiles. Looking at VS Au perks on DL domestic and the minimum level for CH access, I think DL/VS considers VS Au and DL Gold Medallion to be on a par. In DL's case, though there are two levels above VS Au (Platinum and Diamond).

I guess we'll have to watch this space to see what happens...

NYLON wrote:Really interesting Smid. I've never really equated the names BA gave for its loyalty tiers with names Virgin uses. For example, I've always thought BA Silver was roughly was the same as VS Au. And BA Bronze was nearer to VS Silver. BA Gold would equal some mythical tier above VS Au, such as "VS Platinum".

I suppose in VS's case we should really be looking at how VS might harmonise FC with DL SkyMiles. Looking at VS Au perks on DL domestic and the minimum level for CH access, I think DL/VS considers VS Au and DL Gold Medallion to be on a par. In DL's case, though there are two levels above VS Au (Platinum and Diamond).

I guess we'll have to watch this space to see what happens...

I didn't really either, and did indeed think of it like BA bronze myself. Silver on VS is really easy to earn if flying Upper. However, they are matching closer though, and, well lounge access, its a different thing with BA.

With Virgin you're in a mixed airline terminal most of the time, there's always a PP lounge. But BA lacks a PP lounge in Heathrow (I guess there's one in LGW north), but none in Terminal 7 in JFK, right? So lounges are much more important to get, but, lets face it, they're barely above a PP lounge (and not sure where you were supposed to eat anything apart from peanuts and crisps in Terminal 5 Galleries North).

But interesting that DL status earns Clubhouse access. Now if I got that off of Silver, I'd care. I'd perhaps look at TP runs. Perhaps. Nowadays I'm pretty much done flying PE (seat recline is unacceptable to me if the person in front reclines. I suspect economy might actually be preferable), so lounge access is a given if I'm on VS...

Smid wrote:With Virgin you're in a mixed airline terminal most of the time, there's always a PP lounge. But BA lacks a PP lounge in Heathrow (I guess there's one in LGW north), but none in Terminal 7 in JFK, right? So lounges are much more important to get, but, lets face it, they're barely above a PP lounge (and not sure where you were supposed to eat anything apart from peanuts and crisps in Terminal 5 Galleries North).

Erm, I know Galleries aren't the best lounges in the world, but far far above the standard of a PP Lounge (IMO)!
There is a range of hot and cold self serve food in all the Galleries lounges at T5, it is in a different area to the snacks.