The Sydney route to end next year?

I heard Virgin may scrap the Sydney route next year because of lower than expected pax numbers and a general lack of interest.

Does anyone have more info about this?

[Nottingham Nick]

You say you have 'heard', what is your source?

As has been recently mentioned in another post. It is very dangerous to speculate on unsubstantiated, anonymous rumours.

Nick

[preiffer]

First I've ever heard of it. On checking the seat maps for the flights, they hardly look empty either!


It normally takes up to a year for a route to prove itself (remember, they have to break the established carriers' stronghold over the route and that takes time). I'd be very surprised if there's any truth in this.

[fozzyo]

My impression just of talks on here (so not exactly an accurate representation) is that more are starting to use it.

Am I right in thinking the HKG route is always very busy?

Foz xxx

Originally posted by s0436
I heard Virgin may scrap the Sydney route next year because of lower than expected pax numbers and a general lack of interest.

Does anyone have more info about this?

And I have heard that Virgin are buying British airways to use on the internal Indian/American routes [:o)]

The LHR -> Hong Kong route is always busy, that's not the issue.
Using exclusive seat data that I have access to, the leg from HKG to SYD on a flight in mid September at the moment will have 39 empty UC seats, and the whole flight will be about 20% full.

"I heard" this rumour from a Virgin insider at the head office in Crawley...of course it may just be a rumour, it may not happen, I never said anything substantiated or concrete in the original post.

[preiffer]

Originally posted by s0436
Using exclusive seat data that I have access to

Well, the only different set of data available beyond that on expertflyer.com (ie: public/TA data) would be the airline's system itself. Do you work for VS?

one days loads in the less popular time for departures to Oz does not automatically reflect the overall position. I believe these rumours may stem from a thread that appeared on pprune a few days ago. Most routes take a while to bed. As far as I'm aware it is ongoing.
We fly planes completely full, half empty and some very light everyday. I'm sure I could pick a flight from each route over the next few months and show low passenger loads, doesn't mean they are to be scrapped. Passangers are one source of revenue. A light human load means more available weight for cargo.

[preiffer]

Thanks for the heads-up Re: PPRUNE, garthy.

s0436 - Please tell me that this wasn't the source of the "exclusive" data that you have access to?

I bow to your superior attachment skills, that is the thread in question.
I think often people look at VAA as being just like BA, we are not, we are much smaller, trading on a limited but well thought out network. Often this means taking on routes that are already successful for other airlines; then it is up to marketing and brand loyalty to kick in, but in the formative years we are against a significant element of competition. On occassion we get the routes early on and thats where we get our profit margins from. India and Nigeria being good examples, and very full loads.
China shows this too, look at the fact BA followed our forward thinking!! As I eluded to earlier, just because the seats might be empty, the hold could be bulging.

[HighFlyer]

When i flew VS200 in June the plane was very full, no seats left in PE, one in UC and the majority of the Y cabin also full.

VS do have a lot of competition on this route, and have taken a while to get going, but if the loads i saw on my flight are any indicator they shouldnt be having a lot of trouble!

[mitchja]

Cargo is big business for all airlines, which does often get over-looked.

Regards

This rumour is ridiculously untrue.
VS isn't losing money on that route.

Am I right in saying that Virgin waited 19 years to get access to the kangaroo route! If so I don't think they are going to give it up after just one year.

Also, this is winter in Oz, so loads would probably be lower anyway.
And as mitchja said, freight is very important on the SYD route.

Cheers,
VS045

Whoever posted this post is taking the p*ss- its winter in oz- flights are never 100% full at this time of year- couple that with the fact that VS are still trying to get the word out that they are operating the route plus the fact that it flys thru HKG- and you have the answer

Yes there has been meetings in Sydney regarding the new Sydney route, but this takes place at every Virgin destination.

Virgin has tried for years to get the rights to OZ and we will not pull out of it after just a few months. New routes can take years to get established.

We have recently based some of our Aussie national cabin crew in SYD on a two year contract, so we would not have done that if we were planning to pull out of this route.
I have just operated this route and we were 100% full both ways.

Remember it is winter in OZ, im sure in summer all the flights will be full all the time!
We are also currently looking into services to Melbourne too!
You heard it here 1st!!![8D]
VSCSS.

We are also currently looking into services to Melbourne too!
You heard it here 1st!!!

I guess you're going to have to shoot us now!!!!!:D

Cheers,
VS045

Well, here's something interesting from the SMH:

Virgin's head of Asia-Pacific operations, Mackenzie Grant, accepted that progress was proving slow. "We think it's going to take longer to get the load up to where we thought it would be," he said...Virgin carried just over 3000 passengers into Australia in April and 3600 out of the country, according to the Bureau of Transport and Regional Economics' statistics. Its inbound flights were 33 per cent full and 36 per cent of its outbound seats were occupied.

They'll surely stick in there, but perhaps things are not as rosy as expected.

Interesting, thanks for the link. perhaps a bit of advertising is needed? It could be the case that some people don't yet know that VS fly the Sydney route as it's a relatively new route. It's probably not worth advertising just one route, but it could help the loads improve to what VS were hoping for originally.

I think it's a load of pap.

Virgin fought for years to get a Sydney route and it's always been one of SRB's personal routes he wanted the airline to fly.

It takes around a year for a route to really start becoming a proper little earner so i doubt they'll be scrapping it after 8/9 months.

The HKG/SYD leg is getting busier to the point where staff haven't got on or have had to jump seat - that's always a good indicator of how busy a route it.

HKG/SYD was always going to be affected seasonal changes unlike the LHR/HKG leg which is nearly always full.

I guess, during peak traffic periods to Oz, if VS have capacity in their flying programme, they can add a second frequency as far as HKG, to help maximise the revenue on the HKG-SYD sector?

We've mentioned it before, are there any plans for this Winter to turn up a second HKG flight?

Cheers,
Mike

[mitchja]

Mike

Yes it's been mentioned on here that VS simply dont have any spare A/C for a second daily service to HKG at the moment. The next A346 is due in Nov. So I guess once more new A346's are delivered, things will move forward.

Regards

Yep VS can only expand so much with existing metal
That being said new planes are on order..

I'm sure the A380 will be useful on this route too!!

I have just checked the loads for 5 diff flights to HKG-SYD SYD-HKG

1 in SEP there are 48 empty seats on the whole A/C
1 in OCT there are 78 empty seats
1 in NOV there are 65 empty seats
1 in DEC there are 45 empty seats
1 in JAN there are 67 empty seats

I know we have been selling cheap seats to fill the A/C but I know for a fact that VS are NOT pulling out of SYD. I also know for a fact that there will be a 2nd HKG service starting in the not too distant future. Lets just say before we start flying to DXB you will have a choice of 2 flights to HKG. I know of a few other plans for the Aussie market too. I have a good friend in a dept that deals with all this stuff that told me a few plans. Wont say which dept incase it gets back.

Hope this stops this galley FM