#955692 by VS075
30 Apr 2020, 15:40
Following the announcement on Tuesday about 12,000 jobs likely to go, BA have now suggested they may withdraw from LGW...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52489013

Too early to say what will happen to these routes. I'd have thought some may switch to LHR if slots become free as a result of other routes at LHR being reduced/cut, but suspect others may be permanently cut. With all the talk about VS' future, it raises an interesting question as to whether they remain at LGW or also leave?

Either way, it's not good for those based there. :-(
#955693 by David
30 Apr 2020, 16:02
It would certainly cause us a problem having to use Easyjet with their baggage charges when travelling from Gatwick.

David
#955694 by mitchja
30 Apr 2020, 16:19
If VS get though this I can see them doing something similar as well unfortunately. I think VS could also drop GLA and BFS ops as well in all honesty. MAN ops *may* survive but I think even that will be trimmed down at the very least.
#955696 by FLYERZ
30 Apr 2020, 18:23
I could see them possibly leaving their LGW leisure route - Antigua, Grenada, Montego Bay and Tobago (St. Lucia was already due to end in June anyway). Then shift a handful to LHR - Havana was already due to move inJune and I think they could move Orlando and Barbados (also served from LHR seasonally). I think VS plays a big part in fueling Virgin Holidays so key destinations like Orlando and Barbados which VS are very present in currently will stay. Although serving from LHR will be more costly the cut of operations/routes from LGW should be a cost benefit.

Serious questions then for the future of LGW and what that looks like given Norwegian wobbling currently too. Alternatively, but less likely IMO VS could see this as an opportunity to scoop up passengers loyal to Gatwick rather than BA. VS will likely be on the downsize though so this wouldn't really help.
#955697 by TimCrawley
30 Apr 2020, 20:39
There are certainly some cost savings to be made by centralising operations at either LHR or LGW but of course there are some cost differentials between airports too, as stated in fellow v-flyer comments above. I don't recall ever seeing anything on what it costs per month per square metre to have a Lounge operation before you even start to put any furniture, food or staff in the space the airport has rented to you but presumably having busy lounges at one airport versus less busy lounges at two airports offers some savings though mixing premium business and premium leisure travellers in the same lounges has raised eyebrows / dykwia issues in the past!

Only a few of the regulated fees are in the public domain but even among the regulated fees running costs day to day are dramatically different between airports – for example per passenger fees at LHR are 2.5x LGW (okay, it’s only a £15 difference but that is per passenger) and every other regulated fee at LHR is also either the same or more expensive than LGW. It starts to add up to quite a few £ per passenger on pricier baggage handling, check in desks / self-service desks, gate fees / apron&bus fees, aircraft parking fees, beacons, internet services, offices & staff parking, staff identity cards / airside passes and even rubbish collection. As for maintenance sheds etcetera – well there’s a reason airlines fly empty planes overseas and back for anything more than minor works rather than using the likes of LHR (and even LGW can be prohibitively expensive for much beyond overnight services) for much on site work that goes beyond “at gate checks” and basic / simple repairs and calibration.

It would be sad to see BA and/or VS abandon LGW completely, the loss of long-haul and medium-haul routes would affect local jobs in Crawley even if the slack was taken up by short-haul expansion (assuming IAG are right in their assessment that stag & hen parties to Prague will restart and go back to former levels long before medium & long haul recover). However, that is not a given, it's just an IAG prediction leading to potential 12,000 job cuts - they may be right, especially for business travel, but actually some long-haul leisure routes are likely to reopen before some short haul leisure routes (especially Prague if the Czech government statements on soon allowing free movement in / out of the country but will still require 14 days quarantine on incoming visitors perhaps as late as December ....so that weekend away just became a 17 day trip!).

Some very tough times ahead for some very well qualified and high quality staff at so many airlines, airports and supporting companies - as with the extremely tragic personal stories of those who have lost and will still lose loved ones during the pandemic, there will be some sad tales to come from people whose careers and personal lives are turned upside down in the aftermath.
#955699 by Moley
02 May 2020, 11:22
If BA leaves Gatwick and VS a facing down the barrel of not-existing, I wonder if there is any mileage in VS leaving Heathrow and consolidating at Gatwick & Manchester.

Yes, Heathrow is better for connections, however presumably Delta/KLM/AF could pick up the slack of some services through some clever allocation of slots and the sale of other slots will help with debt issues.

It would also give Virgin an opportunity of creating a regional feeder network to their long-haul services. Finally, Gatwick is calling out for a competitor to Tui on mid-haul sunshine routes especially as Norwegian is doubtful to return.
#955700 by tontybear
02 May 2020, 17:22
Before anyone moves anywhere there needs to be some certainty over the use of slots and the 80/20 use or lose rule if the current exemption is not extended for some considerable time. The current exemption is only for around 3 months. No doubt all airlines are putting pressure on the regulators to extend it even longer.

Even before the current situation BA was having to cope with how to deal with the Flybe LHR slot pairs that were returned to them (12 I think) at short notice. That was on top of the LGW ex Monarch slots they had bought and then leased to Thomas Cook that again were returned to them literally over night.

VS initially struggled to deal with the return of the single Cobalt slot when they went bust and rapidly used it for an extra (I think) NYC flight and then were lucky that Flybe (them agan) were able to use it for either a Jersey or Guernsey flight into LHR which of course VS got back when Flybe crashed and so it goes on and on.

Yes VS could do some sort of deal to give / sell its LHR slots to DL/AF/KL but that then puts them in the position of having to use or lose them.

VS would also need to get some slots at LGW - and from whom would they come? BA might sell them (though through gritted teeth). If Norwegian colapse that could be an option but where would VS get the money from to pay for them?

And they need the right slots as well not jut any slots and then they would need to be able to get slots in other airports which are also slot restricted to make flight times / ops good for customers and fleet utilisation. A 3 am ex LGW slot does not scream 'premum' airline to me

As to BA it's well known for a long time that they would like to pull out of LGW completly and initially really only maintained LGW because they couldn't get LHR slots but to be fair they have expanded their ops there in recent years.

But not all LGW passengers will travel to LHR (it's 30 mins for me to get to LGW but close to 2 hours for LHR and even longer for those in Kent for example). I travel to LHR for long haul but I won't go there for a short haul to AMS (which is what I use LGW for) and if I did go to LHR I could use KLM instead.

One figure I saw was that LGW was 20% of BAs operations they would need to be pretty sure of how many passengers would switch to LHR. They would save on the costs of operating LGW but if they lose all that fare incole they could be worse off. And once they left LGW it would be hard to set up there again in the future. Just as it would be difficult for VS to go back to LHR
#955758 by AlanA
05 May 2020, 19:20
With VS pulling out if Gatwick, I think the owners of tge airport will offer BA a sweet deal to keep flying from their
Virgin Atlantic

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