V-Flyer

Hi,

I am hoping for some advice here. I was booked on BA006 to fly from Tokyo Narita to Heathrow and unfortunately it was cancelled due to Rolls Royce inspecting engines on the 787 fleet.

I was informed around 2 days before the flight - they originally rebooked me via Chicago which would have been a horrendous journey home. I also had to endure severe stress as I had to get an ESTA sorted which did not clear me for travel straight away - they said it could take 72 hours before it was authorised when my flight was in 30 hours! Thankfully the clearance came through that afternoon.

Thankfully they then offered me a seat on a direct JAL flight from Haneda to Heathrow on the same day - departing 95 minutes before the original flight. I have been in touch with them to tell the stress they caused me and they have apologised but claim they are not liable for any compensation because the situation was beyond their control.

I was wondering if there is any way I can appeal this? I am feeling very let down by BA and feel like I would not want to book with them again.

Thanks.

Unfortunately I think BA are correct here: the well-documented problems with the RR engines on the Dreamliners are outside their control and therefore not eligible for compensation under EC261/2004.

I appreciate you were put under a lot of needless stress and bought what turned out to be an unnecessary ESTA but BA are under no obligation to compensate you for that. The most you could hope for is a goodwill gesture - probably a few thousand Avios.

I appreciate it’s no use now but for future reference, in the event of situations like this you’re more likely to get a better outcome if you do a bit of research and present BA with your preferred option(s) for rerouting rather than just accepting theirs. TYO-ORD-LHR is, frankly, ridiculous when they could quite easily have transferred you on to their own HND flight, immediately moved you to a JAL flight or routed you via somewhere else in Asia like HKG or SIN.

I hope it never happens again but if it does don’t panic, don’t feel compelled to accept the airline’s rerouting and don’t hesitate to assertively put forward your own solution having done some research on the options or sought advice from a forum like this.

Thanks for your reply. To be fair BA have agreed to reimburse me for the ESTA which they do not have to do. I did ask for a goodwill gesture and they said they have a policy of no such thing to be consistent and fair whilst understanding why I asked for it.

Had they just rebooked me on the JAL flight it would have cut out all the stress and not been much of an inconvenience which is annoying.

Thanks for the tip regarding the rerouting process.

Actually I would challenge BA on this refusal.

The issue with a certain type of RR engines (it is not a problem with the 787 plane itself) has been going on for some time so airlines could reasonably be expected to have adjusted their flight plans to take it into account and not take the easy way out and simply say 'extraordinary circumstances'. BA chose to cancel this flight rather than substitute another plane onto it and remember they had 2 days to replan.

However, under the EU261 regulation for flight cancellations whether compensation is payable depends on the difference between the scheduled departure / arrival times of the alternative and original flights. If you could post those we can check if you would be covered by the regulation and advise on your next steps.

There is a sort of appeal mechanism - there is an independent arbitration service that BA are part of. There is no guarantee they would rule in your favour but it would at least tie up some BA staff time investigating and responding!

Hi,

I was booked on BA006 which left Tokyo Narita at 12:55 and arrived at LHR at 17:30.

After the hassle of rebooking via Chicago they got me a seat on Japan Airlines 43 leaving Tokyo Haneda at 11:20 and arriving at LHR 15:50.

My understanding is as the flight was cancelled at short notice and my new flight left more than hour before the original one is enough to warrant compensation if the circumstances were not extraordinary?

I have seen that I can appeal this but it will cost me £25 if they side with BA? I already feel that I have been wronged by BA and the loss of money would be adding insult to injury!

Almeida wrote:Hi,

I was booked on BA006 which left Tokyo Narita at 12:55 and arrived at LHR at 17:30.

After the hassle of rebooking via Chicago they got me a seat on Japan Airlines 43 leaving Tokyo Haneda at 11:20 and arriving at LHR 15:50.

My understanding is as the flight was cancelled at short notice and my new flight left more than hour before the original one is enough to warrant compensation if the circumstances were not extraordinary?

I have seen that I can appeal this but it will cost me £25 if they side with BA? I already feel that I have been wronged by BA and the loss of money would be adding insult to injury!

Firstly, sorry about the stress. I know how unpleasant that can be. Not to take traffic away from v-flyer, but you could also try posting on the FT BAEC board simply because there's a much larger user base of BA regulars. Just be prepared for some, ahem, 'robust' advice!

I can't tell from your first post whether you specifically asked for EC261 compensation, or just made a general complaint? It's important that you specifically claim for EC261. BA informally telling you "it's beyond their control" is different - in terms of subsequent options available to you - to formally declining an EC261 claim under "extraordinary circumstances".

In terms of EC261 (assuming they don't consider the "cancellation [was] caused by extraordinary circumstances"), you are right in that you could try under Article 5.1.c.iii in that your re-routed flight was "more than one hour before the scheduled time of departure."

Normally you'd be entitled to EUR 600, but as you actually arrived before your scheduled arrival (and certainly within the four hours permitted for a re-routed flight of that length), your compensation would be reduced by 50% to EUR 300 under Article 7.2

Did you end up having to travel from HND to NRT? In so, under Article 8.3, you should also receive reimbursement for that.

I'd side with tontybear's optimism here, and see what happens with an EC261 claim. It's quite easy filing an EC261 claim on the BA website, and see what comes back. Most likely a decline (almost by default, alas), but it won't cost you anything. And you never know!

The £25 fee online comes into play if you file MCOL at a later stage. I'd file the EC261 and keep an eye out on other rulings relating to the RR engines. The issue, as tontybear and gumshoe point out, is well documented and has been going on for some time. But in this instance that's possibly a double-edged sword for BA. It's worth noting the full wording of the Article 5.3 clause: "An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation [...] if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken."

The RR engine issues are probably defensible under "extraordinary circumstances" but the two-day notice period is trickier to defend under the "which could not have been avoided" clause. And remember it is up to BA to "prove" the entirety of the clause - "extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided" - which they would need to do under an MCOL claim.

I don’t agree that BA could have foreseen this as the situation is still ongoing and there have been developments over the last week.

https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/that ... inute.html

Call me a cynic, but I’m always amused by “BA have caused me such stress!” Being immediately followed by “How much money can I get from them?”

And even the experts on Flyertalk who are normally only too happy to advise taking BA to the cleaners for the slightest failing reckon you haven’t got a chance of getting EC261/2004 compensation for the Dreamliner engine problems.

Yes, BA could juggle its schedules around but at the end of the day if it hasn’t got enough aircraft because of a major supplier issue that’s affecting the whole industry, something has to give.

It's very light on detail, but there is a comment on a post over at HfP today which seems to indicate that someone got EC261 compensation for a cancelled 787 flight (BA33), which was grounded due to engine issues. I know it's not much to go on.

If someone knows how to find more detail as to whether it might be the dreaded RR Trent 1000 Pack C issue, that woudl be great; the OP mentions "LHR to KUL on 23/11/17 on the BA33".

If the mods don't object, I'll also post this to FT BAEC to see if anyone there has any answers.

And on the EU261 thread on BA flyer talk several people have reported that they too have been given compensation for 787 cancellations after they have challenged BA.


(I've just seen the comment about £25 fee - that is for the CEDR mediation. MCOL claim fees vary depending on the value of the claim and are refunded if you win)

Sealink wrote:I don’t agree that BA could have foreseen this as the situation is still ongoing and there have been developments over the last week.

https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/that ... inute.html

Call me a cynic, but I’m always amused by “BA have caused me such stress!” Being immediately followed by “How much money can I get from them?”

With all due respect it was highly stressful having to apply for an ESTA at short notice and not get granted clearance straight away and be told they would make a decision within 72 hours when my flight was in 30 hours. I was worried that I would be stranded in Tokyo with no return flight. Out of interest had my ESTA not been cleared in time would BA have been responsible to rebook me as they gave me less than 72 hours notice that my flight had been cancelled?

Thanks to all of you who have replied - it has been helpful. I have filed a claim and they have said they do not owe me any compensation. What are MCOL claims?

Money Claim Online, or what used to be called the Small Claims Court (all done online now).

If you want to challenge BA’s decision the first thing you need to do is send it a formal Letter Before Action, giving it a final chance to settle. There’s plenty of advice online about what to write from the likes of Which or Citizens Advice. If BA still refuses your claim you can start the MCOL process or, if you’d rather, seek assistance from a no-win-no-fee law firm like Bott who’ll do all the work for you for a hefty fee.

Anecdotally, going by reports on other boards, BA seems to often give up and pay up once you go down the MCOL route but it’s perfectly within its right to fight it so you may end up having to prepare a case and submit evidence, and potentially go to court if it chooses to play hardball.