Virgin First - Would it ever happen?

Originally posted by sailor99
I am not sure I see a problem with people being paid more, getting more perks, etc as they become more senior.

Well, there are ways around it even if you do have an 'equitable' policy. I remember very well a note sent around an investment bank I was working at in the City about fifteen years ago (when paper memos were still sent) where everyone received a note stating that "First Class, Concorde and private jet charter can only be booked with the approval of the Board". Obviously someone had rather overstepped the mark with their corporate tourism

The next thing you know, the organisation strikes a route deal with a carrier where they get automatic upgrades (if available) but everyone has to fly a particular airline whether or not it's convenient. This situation is rife (I know of three instituations who have this policy, or at least did have it) and there are no prizes for guessing which single airline it is, although I am sure there are others.

Cheers, Howard

Maybe VS are just not big enough to handle another class considering all the extras with lounges etc - If they had a lot more routes to Asia etc it maybe a benifit but as SIA have such a strong shareholding this would not be possible to open a lot of other routes to Asia as I believe F passangers only really use same on 9+ hr routes

There are still some companies that use Fcl ALOT... mostly the big financial institutions... just look at the towers at Canary Wharf. But most Fcl cabins will be a decent mix of Corporate Contracted business, one off business travel and high end personal travellers.

You look at the amount of Fcl travel booked by agencies like Trailfinders/ Thomas Cook and it really is outstanding (and alot booked in full F!).

I was once asked by a journalist when working at Cathay, when BA had just taken Fcl off China and a few other routes, if we would bother with Fcl when Beds were installed in Jcl.
My simple answer... 'There will always be passengers that only ever travel First, and luckilly a good proportion of those people live in Hong Kong, so I doubt CX will ever get rid of First'.

They've since removed Fcl from AMS, AKL and a few other routes.. but have no problem filling 48 daily seats HKGLON each way every day.

BA often have "book J get a one way upgrade to F" offers in low season, and make this valid on Corporate Private fares.

I doubt an Fcl cabin would really work for VS... certainly the investment needed for ground services (lounges, seperate check-in staff etc) would probably be better spent on Clubhouses for Upper etc.

Having said that, there is a HUGE difference between say CX Fcl and BA/VS/CX Jcl. From the Champagne (Roederer Crystal and Krug both offered), wine (Chateaux Lynch Barges 88... which cost almost £1000 a case!), Caviar, Foie Gras, Channel Sleeper Suits, Donna Karen Comfort Kits, and little Cartier gifts for every passenger to the crew standards and service style... but then if you've stayed in the Penn or Mandarin Oriental you kinda get used to it all!

My first CX Fcl flight they cooked the Eggs for breakfast in front of you... ie from an actual egg. They have full skillets on board now so your steak can also be cooked fresh and rice cookers.

Ironically though the thing that always blew me away, on CX/BA/QF and SQ in First (as well as CX and SQ in Jcl) is also absolutely COST FREE... being addressed by name (and being asked if Mr Xxxxx was fine or if I would prefer Ben) at every time the CC came to me.

Such a simple touch, and hardly rocket science the way they train the Crew to do it, but just such a wonderful service style.

Well VBen, used just convinced me of the future of my travel when I ever go Far East ... BUT how much of the same still applies?

(BTW Lynch Bages 88 not so good but yes expensive, I have two cases of the 83 in store and that's crying out for drinking [}:)] - might mock up a mini Cathay FCl cabin to prep myself!)

Originally posted by sailor99
I am not sure I see a problem with people being paid more, getting more perks, etc as they become more senior.

No problem - just pointing out that many company policies do allow senior execs to fly First so there is a market there, although limited.

Originally posted by Howard Long
The next thing you know, the organisation strikes a route deal with a carrier where they get automatic upgrades (if available) but everyone has to fly a particular airline whether or not it's convenient. This situation is rife (I know of three instituations who have this policy, or at least did have it) and there are no prizes for guessing which single airline it is, although I am sure there are others.

automatic upgrades + guessing which single airline it is = instant BA premier (BAEC black)
= CIP added next to your name on passenger flight list, empty seat next to you in J (if F is full) or domestic Y, reserved dining table in T4 Concorde Room, meet and greet at arrivals gate (never was sure how process of check-in and getting walked to the lounge/departure gate worked)

Originally posted by V-Ben
Channel Sleeper Suits

It is now Shanghai Tang ones - cost cutting or more in keeping with CX Chinese roots?

I think there will always be a market for F, albeit in a somewhat limited capacity in today's world. Also, it's not just pax on business that travel in the premium cabins and I know several families who always travel F plus there are many honeymooners who would like the F option.

VS.

[Darren Wheeler]

For my company, under 4 hours you are expected to use budget airlines, over 4 is business class and any flight longer than 12 hours is First or equivilent.

If Virgin did have First Class and it looked anthing like first in the film "Snakes On A Plane", I'd stay in Y

Hey Darren, this is interesting...does this include only time in the air or total travel time? There are not terribly many 12 hour+ flights

I can think of quite afew with block times over 12hrs.....

HKGLON runs most of the year over 12 hours (though not the other way) especially with an Airbus A340.
SINLON i've have a scheduled time of 14 hours +.
Is BKKLON over as well?
Most of the Asia-US flights are longer.
I'm guessing this would also include one stops on the same flight number so LON - Rio.

I can't see VS ever having an F Cabin. As long as they pepped up UC I wouldn't mind as thats only ever just in my finances anyway.

I know quite a few airlines have removed F, but equally some have invested greatly so you know there will always be people who will want to fly it (and many more who aspire [:I])

As an aside, if SQ get their A380's out as scheduled will it be on the LHR-SIN route, as I'm doing an F on that in Feb. Would love to see what they could do with the cabin on there!

Dean

Slightly O/T, but..

Originally posted by Howard Long
The next thing you know, the organisation strikes a route deal with a carrier where they get automatic upgrades (if available) but everyone has to fly a particular airline whether or not it's convenient. This situation is rife (I know of three instituations who have this policy, or at least did have it) and there are no prizes for guessing which single airline it is, although I am sure there are others.

I must admit I thought the trend was toward outsourcing travel provision to specialist travel agents with supporting systems where the driver is the lowest cost airline for any route regardless of convenience. (It's certainly the way "we" work and an idea that gets promoted as part of our Procurement system sales).

Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
For my company, under 4 hours you are expected to use budget airlines, over 4 is business class and any flight longer than 12 hours is First or equivilent.

We have a similar rule with a slight variation. Under 4 "Y". Over 4 "Y". Over 12 "Y". [n]

Paul

I would imagine the SIA A380 F will be something else

I doubt VS would introduce F. Aside from the extra investment required, it would make the long-time mantra of UC as "First class service for a business class price" ring a bit hollow.

Then it would inevitably tarnish the appeal of the existing UC product; surely part of the cachet of UC is that it gives you the best seats in the house. Introduce a higher product and UC might seem less appealing, even if the cabin and service remained exactly the same.

The big challenge is to preserve the exclusive feel of UC in the context of a plane with not far short of 100 UC seats. The immediately obvious thing to me would be to separate UC into sub-cabins perhaps interspersed variously with the bar, a "business area" and whatever other whizzy things they put in. I think it would be a bad move to end up with more or less the whole of the upper deck (for example) as an open-plan area with row upon row of UC suites.

The big challenge is to preserve the exclusive feel of UC in the context of a plane with not far short of 100 UC seats. The immediately obvious thing to me would be to separate UC into sub-cabins perhaps interspersed variously with the bar, a "business area" and whatever other whizzy things they put in. I think it would be a bad move to end up with more or less the whole of the upper deck (for example) as an open-plan area with row upon row of UC suites.

One thing I like about the A343 is its separate B section and the upper deck on the LHR 744s which do break up UC and give a greater feeling of exclusivity - it is often said that the upper deck can feel like a private jet. Having never had the chance to go on a private jet, I unfortunately cannot make that comparison.[:I]

VS.

SIA I believe will be introducing their new First and business product in October - I cannot wait to see what they have planned - It may open the VS management to review their product

[mcmbenjamin]

Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
For my company, under 4 hours you are expected to use budget airlines, over 4 is business class and any flight longer than 12 hours is First or equivilent.

Normal US gov. policy is over 14 hours scheduled equals Business. United's new IAD-Kuwait is 13h59m.... I Wonder if...

Originally posted by mcmbenjamin

Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
For my company, under 4 hours you are expected to use budget airlines, over 4 is business class and any flight longer than 12 hours is First or equivilent.

Normal US gov. policy is over 14 hours scheduled equals Business. United's new IAD-Kuwait is 13h59m.... I Wonder if...

Guess that had absolutely bugger all to do with US government policy, after all, Kuwait being the nearest fully operational international airport to Iraq and that there is no reason for any US gov or military staff to visit [:?]