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#17454 by AlanA
25 Jan 2007, 11:14
I know that over the past few years, reward flights have got harder to acheive at certain times of the year, but I am wondering if they are now being choked at source?
This is a bit of a long story, but I would like your comments. (if this is in the wrong section, please do move it mods)
The story is split into two sections.
Section 1 Trying to book the cheapest VS UC flights.
After last years debacle of having to cancel our main holiday I was determined not to do so this year. I have always foun that booking as close to the 336 limit gets you the optimum prices, so for 1st dec to 15th dec 2007 to MCO, i rang up on the Monday 16th January, two days after the 336 day limit.
Both myself and the wife have around 90,000 FC miles, but of course, "little 'un", whilst already a veteran VS flyer for his 4 year of age, (34,688 actual VS miles flown) cannot have his own account. So I contacted Silver FC by phone to arrange reward seats. We are very flexible in terms of which of the two flights per leg we would be booked on. However, i was informed that there were now (2 days after 336 days) no reward setas left on any of the flights!
OK, normally that time of year is normally quiet, with around the 14th Dec the start of the rush for Christmas flights, but perhaps this has changed this year.
So, back to the drawing board.
First off, look at M + M fares.
Very surprised that for 15,000 miles each, the saving was only around £200 per person over available "Z" class fares.
Section 2 Other airline choices

After that quite dissapopinting situation, I looked at alternative UC type choices.
the prices came out as follows: (For all of us)
1) VS LGW-MCO UC Z £3,854.60
2) BA LGW-MCO Club £3,829.90
3) Continental BHX-MCO Buisness First £4,175.10

Cheapest on these basic prices was BA by a huge £24.70
However, when you add hotel at LGW and 15 days LGW car parking, Continental were closer (£229 total more expensive than BA)

After much deliberation (friday travelling to LGW. Hotel, plus drive back Vs BHX-NWK-MCO time length plus extra £229) we decided on LGW and VS for the Clubhouse (the fact that a revivals type lounge is available on the way back tipped the scales against better food)

So, (almost done, keep awake there!) I booked via FC phone three Z class fares on VS 027 and VS 016.
Now, when I checked our seats (6A,K and 7A) on both legs, we are the ONLY pax checked in UC seats, with all the rest available.
How can that be is to quote FC "All rewards seats had already gone"??
We will have over 100,000 miles in our accounts, but what is the point if we cannot even get reward seats at the low season?

PS, just another tip, I looked on all the normal web sites for hotel plus car parking at LGW and for the Sofitel (ex Le Meridian) at LGW, it was cheaper to book on the Sofitel web site than with one of the normal web sites (£160.85 against £178.00)
#156831 by fozzyo
25 Jan 2007, 11:55
Oh yes, FC miles are most definitely worth collecting. We have redeemed many many miles on reward flights in PE and Upper. On some routes they are notoriously bad to get availability, particularly in Z. But on others they can be quite easy - we have 7 reward seats on a flight to Tokyo in April!

Unfortunately the more popular routes are naturally going to be the hardest to get reward seats on.

I have also got the impression that over the years the allocation of reward seats is somewhat of a dark art. Bookings can be taken at the 336 limit - that doesn't mean that all fare-codes (ie reward seats) will be available on that day.

Mat
#156835 by pjh
25 Jan 2007, 12:03
Originally posted by AlanA
Now, when I checked our seats (6A,K and 7A) on both legs, we are the ONLY pax checked in UC seats, with all the rest available.
How can that be is to quote FC "All rewards seats had already gone"??


But doesn't that just mean that you're the only people who have done pre-assignment and not necessarily the only people who have bought UC tickets ?

Paul
#156836 by tallprawn
25 Jan 2007, 12:07
It's worth bearing in mind that LGW/MAN config aircraft only have 14 suites so VS won't want to give anymore than 1 seat per flight away to non-revenue tickets where they can help it.

I have redeemed on LHR routes only and have never really had any major problems in getting seating.

In my opinion it's always best to book as close to 336 days as possible as I find that this gives the best opportunity for getting flexible options.

I have just checked Dec 2007 and on most routes from LHR 2 plus seats are available on most days throughout the month....:D

For MCO, try looking at MIA flights and remember you can book a car/limo for 10,000 miles to take you straight to Orlando.....:D
#156837 by slinky09
25 Jan 2007, 12:09
Absolutely - every year the no. 1 here gets a free UC ticket and more when we holiday in the US. So that saves me a good £2,500+ every time.

Booking rewards isn't always easy but I find that a bit of advance planning and avoiding LAS has worked for me.
#156839 by AlanA
25 Jan 2007, 12:11
Originally posted by pjh
Originally posted by AlanA
Now, when I checked our seats (6A,K and 7A) on both legs, we are the ONLY pax checked in UC seats, with all the rest available.
How can that be is to quote FC "All rewards seats had already gone"??


But doesn't that just mean that you're the only people who have done pre-assignment and not necessarily the only people who have bought UC tickets ?

Paul


I might be wrong, but they would have to be assigned a seat to enable anyone who wants to pre assign know what is available (i understand that a couple of seats, funnily enough always by the bar are kept for nearer the time)
#156842 by mitchja
25 Jan 2007, 12:18
Re the seat assignment. I know that if you book a V Hols package with VS flights your seat number is not assigned on the flight until you actually log in to the VS web site and update your booking, as the first time you log in and view the booking, no seat number will be assigned (as least this is what happened when I made a V Hols booking last year).

Not everyone will go to the VS web site to view their seats, therefore, although resevered, their seats wont be allocated.

Only bookings made directly with VS assign specific seats during the booking process.

Not sure what happens with TA bookings.

I have another V Hols booking for New Year, so once V Hols send the flight booking to VS letting me update the booking, I'll let you know if this is still the case.

Regards
#156846 by Neil
25 Jan 2007, 12:29
James - you are correct and this is still the case with VH bookings. I booked a package for my parents a couple of weeks ago and no seats were assigned until I got the reference through and selected some from the update booking section on the VS site.
#156855 by andrew.m.wright
25 Jan 2007, 12:59
I've used the MpM option 3 times now to gain Upper Class flights from Gatwick to Orlando.

But then I don't need to travel a peak times so when I do travel in November, and February I've had Z fares all in for £1, 200.

That's a good deal for me.
#156862 by Littlejohn
25 Jan 2007, 13:30
I tend to use mine for upgrades. Occassionally have had to wait until the airport, but always got to the pointy bit. But I must admit that was Dubai and Shanghai, so not the busiest routes. Did get a freebe down to capetown as well. So all in all I am a happy bunny.

Of course I would not object to more reward availablity being allocated [:w]
#156868 by mcmbenjamin
25 Jan 2007, 13:45
USA to South America (10 hour flight) on CO is 30K FC miles. Good value for me.
#156870 by HighFlyer
25 Jan 2007, 13:51
Seen both sides of the equation. Couldnt get a G to MCO for love nor money last year in the September/October period so ended up having to fly home VIA MAN on a Friday. Then we see 7 G's to NRT in April!

Not usually had an issue using miles to upgrade, though I'm still waiting for a G to open up for my next flight. I'll likely spend more miles on upgrades than full rewards so i guess i have seen more success than your average family that save really hard to try and use a reward for their annual holiday.

As a FC Au, I'd love to see some extra seats held back for us. :) I'd also like to see Rev Man get a little more commonsense and open up G's to people who are booking one or more full fare tickets. You can either sell one or two Z/D/J fares and one G - or lose out to BA!

Thanks,
Sarah
#156876 by FamilyMan
25 Jan 2007, 15:35
Interestingly I am about to book simple Y tickets for the family to MCO next Christmas leaving on 16th and returning after the new year. Now I know I cannot book until early next month as we are returning on the 5th January but at the moment the Y reward availability for outbound in December as a whole is full - just the 3rd december available.

Now bearing in mind that post-christmas is barely open I was wondering how many seats are actually being made available. I could wait and see if more become available but since only two of four tickets are reward tickets I could end up paying more for the non-reward tickets if I wait too long. It just seems very early for such limited availability.

Guess we'll go via New York. :)

Phil FM

P.S. It occurs to me that maybe the reason for such limited availability is that reward flights are booked with return flights that they know are going to be changed - which of course is free for Au members. This might explain why they have dissapeared even though the return post-christmas flights have yet to appear.
#156902 by p17blo
25 Jan 2007, 18:56
Alan, I quite agree with you when it comes to MCO and I have said so on many occasions. This is why ALL of my flights this year are NOT with VS - I (well including my wife) have over 250k miles sitting in my account which I have found to useless. I couldn't even use them to New York as I fly on flights that NEVER seem to have G availability (particularly the early morning flight back) - Although I have just renewed Gold status I will drop to silver at the end of this year and then to red at the end of next year and frankly I don't care any longer.

I have tried and tried and tried to get VS to take notice but they don't care. MCO flights in G is black out nightmare unless you want to fly on a tues, wed or thursday.

My advice - You shouldn't have booked VS particular as BA have a 'revivals' at LGW. If you had booked BA which was cheaper anyway you would have earned BA miles. 20k BA miles is all you need to upgrade a £700-£900 WT+ MCO ticket to Club with availability a plenty at 336+

VS can kiss my "points"

So my advice to the rest of you struggling to use your points is book with another carrier.

The problem is only being compounded by VS generosity of giving away further points (up to 4 x times I believe for each £1).

Paul
#156909 by RedVee
25 Jan 2007, 19:43
In 9 months I'll have managed to book 2 x U/C returns (one L to G upgrade and one outright G) to California (into LAX out of SFO) and 2 x U/C G returns to Dubai, so I'd have to say, yes, it's been worth it.

It has meant some compromise, I really would have liked to have been in America on 4 July, but couldn't get out until the 7th.

I really have no expectation that I could get U/C rewards from Manchester to the Caribbean/Orlando any time from the end of hurricane season/early Dec due the config only having 14 suites. Going out on Christmas day is usually more likely to get a result, or flying LHR to Miami as already suggested by Tallprawn.


Regards

Pat
#156910 by woggledog
25 Jan 2007, 20:01
Due to the nature of my work, I find that it's rare to be booking flights more than 6 weeks ahead. West Coast US, and Shanghai never seem to be an issue Upgrading from PE. EWR in November was easy enough also.

However, my LAX flight next month has no upgrading left. This has happened a few times, and I often find that calling two days before or at the check in counter normally gets an upgrade.
#156913 by tallprawn
25 Jan 2007, 20:16
Originally posted by woggledog
However, my LAX flight next month has no upgrading left. This has happened a few times, and I often find that calling two days before or at the check in counter normally gets an upgrade.


Hi woggledog,

If you are looking to upgrade, VS Revenue management will open up more seating a week before departure, subject to loads at the time and whether they think they can sell the remaining seats or not...:D

To stand the best change always try bang on a week before you are due to travel.

Hope this helps...;)
#156916 by Scrooge
25 Jan 2007, 20:30
Originally posted by tallprawn
Originally posted by woggledog
However, my LAX flight next month has no upgrading left. This has happened a few times, and I often find that calling two days before or at the check in counter normally gets an upgrade.


Hi woggledog,

If you are looking to upgrade, VS Revenue management will open up more seating a week before departure, subject to loads at the time and whether they think they can sell the remaining seats or not...:D

To stand the best change always try bang on a week before you are due to travel.

Hope this helps...;)


That is not a 100% guarantee rev mis-management is run by crazy people, I know for a fact flight's have left with plenty (more than 10) open seats in J and they will still not open up more up-grade/reward seats.

But yes it's still worth saving the miles, you just need to keep plugging away.
#156922 by Nottingham Nick
25 Jan 2007, 20:51
An interesting topic.

I am firmly on the side of a BIG YES to points whoring, sorry - miles collecting.

We are fortunate that we haven't looked to redeem out of LGW or MAN. Last time we burnt our points we managed to get three US seats into LAX and out of SFO during August. [y][y]

I suppose it is a difficult balancing act. I always view FC points as a great way of encouraging brand loyalty, but if people who only fly one route find that there is no availability, then they will vote with their feet - as p17blo has done.

I also wonder about the number of points that are easily available to people who have never flown with VS - either through credit cards or hotels etc. and would like to see a system where regular VS fliers have access to reward inventory that others don't.

Nick
#156933 by MarkJ
25 Jan 2007, 21:06
I think the advantage of using V-flyer is that most of us know that reward seats are limited and therefore do the necessary planning to make the best use of them . I have just booked 2 UC returns for November to CPT but I did this on the day the schedules were loaded onto the VS system because I know who to talk to and what to do!!

A passenger who didnt know the tips and advice from VF might wait until nearer the date thinking that the seats would be avaialble and then be left disappointed. It appears there is no reason to how the reward seats are allocated - so this makes it trickier still.

I have used BA miles for reward flights to Europe and their web site and allocation seems to be way ahead of Virgin's!!
#156982 by PVGSLF
26 Jan 2007, 02:03
I've never had any problem using miles for Shanghai flights in the last two years i've managed to get an Economy reward flight, an Upper Class reward flight and a couple of MpM's, usually only a month beforehand.

I am waiting for final confirmation of Business Class reward flight on SQ from Seoul to Singapore only ten days ahead of time.

So I would say they are well worth collecting. And the best thing is the speed with which you can rack them up, even for an infrequent business traveller. Though I must thank "Miles more Friends" and Singapore Air for the speed with which I have racked them up this time.
#156984 by flying low
26 Jan 2007, 02:26
I think is is totally worth it. In 2006, I have had UC redemptions to New York, Tokyo & 2 flights to Delhi.

You just have to be flexible, but each time I have booked no more than 2 months in advance. If you can't get a UC seat at the time of booking, best to book PE and then try to upgrade using miles at check in.

I currently have just under 580,000 miles with VS and spend them all the time, with BA I have 200,000 and have NEVER been able to burn them. VS is deffo the better option. One of the reasons why I fly VS is down to the fact that I can actually use the miles they award me with, f**k BA - the Exec Club is a joke and the whole operation is fast becoming a farce. Willy Wonker seems to think its a long-haul version of Easyjet, and I for one have had enough. VS is by far the better option.
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