I'm looking for your feedback on the old UC seats

Hi – would you be able to help me. I am specifically looking for you comments / thoughts on the old UC seats on the 744s flying out of Gatwick. It is not a concern on the outbound leg as it has been confirmed as have had the UCS refit, however, on the 24 Jan the plane is not showing as having had a refit. I think these are called the “Ricardo” seats and I think I’m correct in stating that they are older and not as comfortable as the J2000. What is the cabin like was it tired looking. Would you take a gamble and book UC and hope that the plane has had a refit? Or would you bide your time? . At the moment I am in PE on the way back and whilst it is comfortable I would love to have the UCS. As there are only 14 UCS on the 744s from Gatwick I’m worried that if it is announced as being one of the 744s as being fitted UCS that if I don’t time it right they will be sold out as this has already happened on the outbound leg. The impression I got was that everyone is waiting for confirmation that the UCS would be fitted on the way back before they book. The lady in reservations didn’t seem to think this would be the case as only 2 or possibly 3 out of 5 planes would have UCS by mid Jan. You would think that they would be willing to offer a discount to those that are prepared to take a gamble and just make it 100% clear that whilst they would like to offer the UCS there is no way of guaranteeing this, that way they could sell the seats off and stop the what must be the endless calls asking if and when the planes would have a refit as people would be more willing to book. Nobody wants to pay full price for something that is sub standard but if they got say a £200 discount then I would be prepared to take a gamble and book now. . What do you guys think?

Even if 4 out 5 aircraft are ritted with UCS it still cant be guranteed in case of an aircraft change at the last minute.

The Recarro seats are fine and perfectably comfortable, I would suggest sitting in Rows 6, 7 or 8 row 9 has the galley behind wich may be noisy and when seated in row 11 or 12 in the second cabin you may feel a bit left out.

I cant see why VS should offer any discount in case you may not getting Upper class suite.

The cabin is only 3 years old so does not look tired, although it does not the same cabin appearence as LHR 744 or A340 aircraft.

Its just has plane white walls with no mood lighting either but is fine in terms of space, service and cabin.

Hi,

I have no complaints about the LGW fleet's comfort,seats or service ( having more channels on the IFE would have been nice but you cannot have everything I guess)[:p]

Regards

TBS

quote:Originally posted by The_Banking_Scot
Hi,

I have no complaints about the LGW fleet's comfort,seats or service ( having more channels on the IFE would have been nice but you cannot have everything I guess)[:p]

Regards

TBS

Would you say then that it would be worth my while upgrading from PE bearing in mind that it would be a night flight[^] It would work out at an extra £540.00 Does anyone else have any thoughts on this cause I just can't make my mind up!!

Hi all

I've travelled on the LGW Upper Class Seats on three return flights since they were introduced. Firstly regarding the actual seat - it is very comfortable, wide (wider than the J2000) with a huge amount of leg room (and you don't slide underneath the seat in front of you like the J2000). The recline is excellent and nearly flat. My only criticism with the seat is the foot rest, which although adequate in length has a rather uncomfortable metal bar at the end). Having flown on United Business - it is a far better seat / cabin / service / entertainment than anything on offer from the US giants.

I have flown on the J2000 and also the UCS from Heathrow. I have to say that the service on all the LGW flights is simply the best - the cabin is smaller, the service seems more attentive and personalized (I have always been welcomed on board by the manager on all LGW flights but rarely on LHR flights)

With regards the cabin - it is very bright, feels like a Virgin cabin, with purple carpets and purple seats, (mordern and feels new and fresh). It does not have the much hyped - 'mood lighting', but personally I do appreciate the full mood thing on the Heathrow fleet anyway - the cabin is either pink / purple during the day or dark blue at night (I've never seen the so called transition from dawn to dusk)
'
There is no real 'bar' but there is a 'platform' where you can help yourself to snacks. With such a small cabin, however, getting drinks from the crew is never a problem (they seem to come around during the flight more often)

The TV screens are a bit small (but can be moved unlike the J2000 seats which are fixed at the bottom of the seat in front) and the system is standard and a bit basic - but is the same as other airlines (United, American, BA). I have always found something to watch / listen to and actually have got more out of the system than the much hyped 'Vport' where you spend most of the time looking at menus, working out how to use the system, and waiting for things to load, and even having no entertainment when it crashes and is rebooted. This has never happened on a Gatwick Flight.

All the Gatwick planes are new (less than 4 years old) and the engine noise does to me seem quieter in the nose cone (A zone) than a LHR 747 (perhaps a techie person can explain if / why this is the case)

Personally I also prefer the LGW clubhouse to LHR (despite the poor view due to building works!) - it is more mordern, spacious, and again the service is much more attentive and personalised.

Personally I would not hesitate in paying for the upgrade, but agree that the UCS is in a different league altogether so would not want to pay the same price price for both seats.

I love Virgin, but their BIG problem is the huge variability in the different seats / entertainment / service etc which is never made clear on any of their websites / Vigin brochures / advertising.

Even though they are finally upgrading the Gatwick Fleet they should have a clear refit schedule and should be able to tell you which routes will have the suite or not (always accepting last minute changes due to technical problems). This should be reflected in the price - there should clearly be a discount for those passengers on the 'old' seats compared to the UCS as they are not the same product. The same applies to the LHR fleet where a discount should apply to flight nos which still have the J2000.

Another critisim is that Virgin's marketing is always 'on speed' and way ahead of what is really happening. The LHR fleet are not going to be refitted until May 2005 (1 year later than their initial marketing hype and the LGW fleet will be done by (early 2005), again several months later than their intitial hype.

Sorry about the rant, I hope this info is fair regarding the 'old' LGW fleet and helps you make a decsion regarding to upgrade or not.

[quote]Originally posted by psych-doc

Personally I would not hesitate in paying for the upgrade, but agree that the UCS is in a different league altogether so would not want to pay the same price price for both seats.

Even though they are finally upgrading the Gatwick Fleet they should have a clear refit schedule and should be able to tell you which routes will have the suite or not (always accepting last minute changes due to technical problems). This should be reflected in the price - there should clearly be a discount for those passengers on the 'old' seats compared to the UCS as they are not the same product. The same applies to the LHR fleet where a discount should apply to flight nos which still have the J2000.

psych-doc thank you ! Yes you have really helped me to make a decision and I will be upgrading on the way back. IÕm glad that you feel the same as me, to be honest I found "declansmith" comments very biased almost like a staff member, but thatÕs his view.

I do realise that the cost of upgrading to UC is biased on the service that is currently on offer. There is no doubt in my mind that this time next year, when all of the 744 from LGW will have had the refit the price will be a least 20% more, however, at least then you will know what type of seat / cabin you will be paying for. Most people do not like the current uncertainty, they want to know upfront what they are paying for.

The point that I was trying to put forward was that if Virgin was prepared to offer a discount (until the whole fleet had had the refit) then the effects would be two fold. Firstly, more people would be happy to book, they may feel a little disappointed if the plane didnÕt have the new suites, but not really let down because they would still be getting Òvalue for moneyÓ. Secondly, the seats would sell quicker and reservations team would not be answering so many repeat calls. They could simply say Òwe are able to offer you a discount as we can not yet guarantee that all of our planes have had a refitÓ how hard is that? I understand that Virgin is a business and they couldnÕt do that from the onset but some of the refits are long overdue so wouldn't this be one way of solving this.
Maybe Virgin are not that concerned after all once you have booked, they have your money. As with all marketing dept's they are there to promote a product and lets face it even if you donÕt get your suite they have still done a good job in that sense.

All I can say is that Virgin are extremely lucky to have such a good product, but, having said that if it wasnÕt for the 10% discount through Virgin Holiday I would have gone ÒClub WorldÓ (without the discount it was the same price, and they were able to guarantee that all of their planes to the Caribbean would have ÒNew Club WorldÓ in Jan)

Technically as I see it, you have a discounted Upper class price as the routes fitted with the suites are more expensive. As mentioned in another posting, prices are rising next year.
The only difference between the current UC service and the suite service is the thing you put your bum on, the rest is the same.

They do know a while in advance, as the end of last month, my seat assignment for January 2005 was changed as the flight was then identified as a suite aircraft.

Can I just make this clear once and for all. Suite operated routes are NOT MORE EXPENSIVE. Every route has a competitive fare structure with most fares matching the BA equivalent. It would be commercial suicide to raise prices when your main competition remains as they were. When doing a price comparison with say BA, the only reason fares may differ, are down to the inventory control of that particular flight. As most of you know Virgin has J, D, Z booking letters. BA have J,D,C,I. It could be a simple case of VS has sold more and has just D class open while BA has sold less and has I class open for sale. Its as simple as that really. As you never know what route will have a suite aircraft from one day to the next, its ridiculous to expect higher fares to be pegged to the aircraft registration!!

To conclude, if fares do go up they go up because the market as a whole thinks it can be sustained, not just one carrier going it alone because it feels its product is better than the rest. Like I said commercial suicide for Virgin to be arrogant

VS decide on the fares due to the season, demand and competitors fares on the same route, not the type of seat offered.

Suppose they say a suite 400 will operate, then decide that air Atlanta will now operate the route using a Manchester 747-200 I doubt they would offer a discount.

In another case all passengers who get a J2000 seat on there flights now should be offered a refund because they could have had a suite flight.

Until ALL aircraft 340-300, 340-600 and 747-400 have the suites fitted there will never be a 100% gurantee you will get the suites.

However I do hope you get the suites on both your flights, having just 14 suites in the nose of the 747-400 will feel very much like the first class cabin of some other airlines.

I recently booked flights to HKG in October on the strength of Virgin customer services saying that I had at least a 90% chance of UCS. Now that would appear to be wildly optimistic - they are now saying my only chance is if the aircraft changes - but the tickets had been bought and paid for.
I have never used the J2000 seat but it don't like the way you seem to slip under the seat in front. Perhaps someone can tell me how good/bad it is.
Thus, I agree with the "optimism" of thier marketing campaign. I don't belive in the price differential though. That, to me, would defeat the product offering differentiation that the ucs provides.
Anyway, fingers crossed. Also, if the whole Virgin experience is as good as some say it should be a memorable flight. Just a pity about the seat.......

Sorry,
my point was that aircraft fitted with Suites had LESS seats available than aircraft fitted with the olderseats, so less discounted seats would be available on a route now fitted with suites that the same route fitted with (more) old seats.

[buns]

Alan

Returning to your original question, I would say if you can afford the return leg then do it!

When Mrs Buns and I have done UC out and PE back (thinking we might sleep on the way home) we have missed the UC experience and after all that is what you are paying for.

I have nothing against the LGW PE product, the upstairs cabin with three loos is a real bonus and as I have read in posts elswhere on this forum, on MCO routes UC rows 11 & 12 are frequently given over to PE pax (with PE service in a UC seat) so you may be lucky to get the best of both worlds

Buns

CX and LH have copied the J2000 seat, They have the same style in there business class cabins.

Declan,
Apologies if i'm wrong. I've flown CX business recently to HKG and never noticed the seat going below the seat in front. I always thought the seat back was solid. It may also be that I just can't remember (I never thought about these things until i joined this forum !). If it is the same as the J2000 then thats a perfectly good seat also. In which case, is there a water bottle holder on the Virgin seat - a quirk which I really appreciate.
Thx

The J2000 seat has a place for a water bottle, its where you will also find a seat instruction card.

The CX seat is same as J2000, but on Cx seat is 2-3-2 on VS its 2-2-2, anyway you should have suites on your flight to HKG.

What date are your travelling?

Is this the J2000 seats?

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb/wh ... /index.jsp

quote:Originally posted by AlanA
Is this the J2000 seats?

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb/wh ... /index.jsp

Yup they are

I have a couple of pics of the seat emailed to me by Virgin (sent as a "Word" attachment). If anyone knows how I can attach them to this thread let me know and i'll do it.
Declan, flying out on 25th oct - return on 1st nov.