What are 2 Inches between friends?

Just heard that all economy passengers may soon get an extra two inches of pitch as a minimum requirement. Charter passengers should rejoice, as they are very crushed in. We went on a charter flight for four hours, it hurt our knees, and we're not that tall!

Thank goodness we say, more room, less seats and cheerier pax, but hideous for standby staff travel? Price increases? Less crew required on some services due to the 50 seat I crew member rule? Is this a good or bad thing, bearing the fear of DVT in mind?

Thoughts please!

Love your sky high pals.

Liz & Julie x

[Decker]

Article here.

Seems that it won't affect VS or BA as they're already bigger than the minimum - as you say Charter mostly....

[Scrooge]

Could I just point out that there are more than one charter airline that offers more seat pitch in the back of the aircraft than either BA or VS already, no need for charter flyer's to rejoice .

Interesting piece of the BBC Article. The Lords apparently feel that Premium Economy is unfarely taxed along with higher classes.

FM

Well, it's all very interesting. An engineer friend of ours told us that the real deal is the pitch between the actual seat edge and the one in front, he said they could tweak the back of the seat slightly more upright on each row toward the front so it falls within the minimum, but still keep the legroom short and so get more seats in. For passenger comfort it's this seat space measurement that matters.

We are all very lucky to fly with BA and Virgin who do provide reasonably decent space, but then we are very lucky all round. It was a shock to see how cramped conditions are on charter flights, and many of the companies do fly long haul, sometimes to destinations we fly schedule to. We couldn't have stood another minute, so glad we didn't book the hol we had planned. Six hours of that torture would have finished us off! The joys of a well packed A321, not for anybody over 5'7'.

Liz & Jue x

[Scrooge]

Hang on a sec, this is an issue that comes up on a regular basis.

VS and BA offer a 31 inch seat pitch in Y

Thompsonfly offers a 33 inch seat pitch

So how are we lucky to fly with BA/VS, if anything the Charters are starting to do to VS/BA what VS did to BA back in the 80's, offer more for less.

Originally posted by Liz and Julie
An engineer friend of ours told us that the real deal is the pitch between the actual seat edge and the one in front, he said they could tweak the back of the seat slightly more upright on each row toward the front so it falls within the minimum, but still keep the legroom short and so get more seats in. For passenger comfort it's this seat space measurement that matters.


Liz & Jue x

So what you are saying is that VS intends to move the seat to a more upright postion on certain rows ?

Great so now you have to sit bolt up right and have no legroom, great news [y] [:#]

Originally posted by Liz and Julie
Six hours of that torture would have finished us off! The joys of a well packed A321, not for anybody over 5'7'.

Liz & Jue x

The joys of a 744 on an 11 hour flight, please, I don't want to seem rude, but what you are saying is incorrect.

with a 31 inch seat pitch long haul flights are horrible for anyone over say 5'6', the new slim line seats may help, but the fact will still remain that while VS/BA offer a 31 inch pitch, there are long haul charters that offer a 33 inch pitch, so you are right, 2 inches can come between friends.

No Scrooge, thankfully our friend works for another company, not VS. And yes, bolt upright and less leg room on those flights, but we can't say who they are. (If you travel with them your aching muscles will tell you!)

Now, we've never flown with Tfly but they do seem very generous and tempting in the space department. Maybe they will set the benchmark for comfort, we do feel sorry for our poor passengers, and some of our colleagues encourage them to complain about the amount of room they have. Not to us of course, comment forms only please. But we would all appreciate more leg room, a 6'5' man constantly in our galley crowds us out too!

You have very interesting opinions, thanks for telling them to us, we love passenger opinions on the things that affect us.

L&J xxx

Never thought I'd do this, but I too am standing in defence of the charter companies who've opted for bigger cabin space for their passengers. Having sat for a good few hours (9+) on 2x TOM flight about 6 months ago (which had the 33in pitch) I can confirm this makes a HUGE difference compared to the derisory space VS/BA et al deign to allow cattle class passengers at the back of the bus(or should that read 'stall' for I feel like a battery animal when penned in these seats).TOM have nice comfy leather seats too, and the cabin service was excellent (far better than some VS flights I've done in J).I'd not been on a charter flight for a long long time, but use the LCCs fairly frequently,and was stunned at how different things are now.
I too think a lot of the charter companies have already raised the bar for passenger comfort (on long haul) and to a reasonable degree have caught the scheduled 'big boys' napping.
Current VS/BA Y (delete as applicable) or TOM (longhaul). Absolutely no contest.TOM would get my business every time under current offerings. Short haul being cramped doesn't bother me. No worse than being in the car for hours at a time IMHO (minus the G+T).The TOM premium service (can't remember what it's called ) is on a par with PE (or perhaps even better) at a fraction of the price.

Originally posted by DragonLady

And thats from an AG!

I have said time and time again (often to be told 'but Y makes no money') that VS need to look into the Y product. With the current merging of charter carriers (FCA and TOM becoming TUIfly/MYT now fully absorbed into Thomas CooK) competition is only going to get hotter- as the carriers will have more a/c to distribute to more destinations.

I will not go into my reasons for an improvement for Y as I have done so in the many threads on this site. But it does not take much- leather seats throughout, some sort of AVOD ex LGW (maybe like DL and CO are introducing) and a bit more legroom. I guess the problem for those down the back is that VS will not do anything about Y while they have full Y cabins. My fear is that in the next couple of years the charters will raise their game again and all of a sudden VS Y will become the Globespan of 2010. God forbid.

Thanks Dragonlady, and Willd.

This is exactly what we think right now. The big boys are trading on their status as scheduled carriers, and they do not seem to have yet noticed that often they are being chased on certain destinations, and in some cases out-classed. If it's better for the passengers it suits us fine, flying should be a pleasure, and we hate seeing people uncomfortable and distressed.

It's shameful that huge airlines put their economy passengers so low on the agenda. Is it better to have fewer seats selling well and consistently to happy pax, because they will sell if people feel content with the conditions and comfort offered. We hate to think that passengers coming on board feel full of dread about their journey before we even start, we want everyone happy, relaxed and receptive to us looking after them.

We're not experts by any gigantic stretch but if everyone paid a small price extra to fund the loss of some seats and revenue wouldn't that work? Not a premium but just enough to persuade airlines to take the issue seriously. The Crew are the ones who will deal with DVT, and we don't need to go in to how dreadful that situation can become suddenly.

Would 32' be an acceptable compromise? Start small and work our way up? Maybe BA and VS could look in to it, after all, what's an inch between friends?

Love,

L&J x

[Neil]

Like DL I've also done TOM long haul this year, but my opinions are massively different. Yes the seat/leg room was ok, but everything else about it reminded me why I hate charters and am now prepared to pay a bit more for a scheduled flight. The ridiculous prices charged for food, drinks, earphones and to be actually charged to sit together and to pick my seat. Then the miserable CC who were absent for a good 75% of the flight. Give me VS/BA any day.

I think Will and others have totally hit the nail on the head, VS are still getting great Y reviews from your average B&S pax, filling the Y section in a/c on the B&S routes so why spend money on it right now. At this moment in time they have rightly concentrated on the PE cabin, made that a market leader again, and I would put good money on VS looking into the Y seat/service and preparing a plan of action.

Lets be honest, VS have/are usually the company that raises the bar, the UCS, the Clubhouses, new PE, V-Port, things take time (and money).

Neil

The charter airlines have responded! First Choice retrofitted their B767s with 33' leather seats, AVOD & cut out a whole row. The other charters have announced/have already upgraded to this new benchmark, but retained a tight config across the plane (eg. B767 2x4x2 vs. 2x3x2, A330 3x3x3 vs. 2x4x2). Kudos to First Choice!

I think that BA may well do something with seatpitch when they bring in a new generation slimline World Traveller cabin with the B787/A380 fleet. VS are bounnd to follow...

I have a theory and that is the Dreamliners VS have on order will be all UC/PE and will fly key routes supplemented by existing aircraft with economy seating.

Remember you saw it here first[;)]

Miopyk[8D]