What is going on with the service?

I'm passionate about Virgin Atlantic. I've made plenty of friends with both passengers and crew, but really, what is going on with the service these days?

It's only been 2 years since I started flying with Virgin but in those two years it seems more recently there is problems. Whether it is with reservations, check in (online or at T3), on board with certain crew or the equipment (CPU Busy is the 'dejour' problem I am ALWAYS getting when using the onboard phone).

I get it that in any business, the larger it gets it begins to loose its fun sheen (on a side note Southwest is an example of a company that has not), but seriously, why is Virgin not doing something about the level of service customers are experiencing.

A brief tour of the blogosphere paints some painful pictures of the damage that is happening to VA at the hands of poorly trained or ignorant staff.

Am I being dramatic when I say that the airline has become more of a club for staff than an A1 experience for customers?

It doesn't matter whether you are Flying Club Gold or Red, it stands for nothing.

I just got off the phone with UC reservations and I have received better service from EasyJet.

I'm on the verge of writing to Steve Ridgeway to offer my Consulting services free of charge (well maybe for the occasional UC ticket)in an effort to turnaround a fast fading icon of how air travel should be.

Does anyone have any reassurances that customer service really is being assessed at Virgin and things will improve or is this the shape of things to come? [;)]

[Nottingham Nick]

Welcome to the site.

I do think you are being a bit OTT, but cannot comment on your own personal experiences.

This site has many, many examples service not being what it used to be. It also has lots of examples of people enjoying excellent service from the airline. I am not about to trot out the reasons for the perceived decline, they are documented again and again here. The 'club for staff' issues are also subject of a long debate recently.

Personally, I have nearly always had excellent service when speaking to the Premier Team by phone. The problems with sending emails to get 'boiler plate' replies and with overseas call centres are also well known, and have been discussed an awful lot on here.

I have never used the on-board phone, so have never had a 'cpu busy' message.

The bottom line is, you always have a choice. There are lots of carriers out there, but the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

Originally posted by richarda
I'm on the verge of writing to Steve Ridgeway to offer my Consulting services free of charge

If you do, you ought to make sure you spell his name correctly. [;)][:D]

Once again, welcome.


Nick

My thoughts on Virgin's service have been previously documented on this site, so I won't re-hash them. Suffice to say that in the last 10 years I have only flown Virgin when heading back to the UK, but I am disgruntled enough to say that my next trip could be my last, depending on how the trip goes.

What really convinced me that Virgin's days of superior service was over came after I wrote a letter following a very poor experience (see thread 'Surprised by VS Poor Planning') in which I documented a lot more than I posted here. I eventually received an emailed reply stating that Virgin was sorry I had encountered operational issues, and they were adding 10,000 miles to my account. Not one issue I raised was addressed. The email was very much a 'Here's some miles, now shut up and go away' type email.

I feel it only right to state that I am in the Customer Service business myself, so I fully appreciate that I can be a little picky sometimes (just as Doctors and Nurses make the worst patients!) but that fact is that I know the Customer Service business, and know how it could/should be done.

I hope I am wrong. I have loved the airline for 10 years and have convinced family and friends to fly with no-one else, but regrettably, I just don't know what the future holds.

baldbrit, this has been my experience.

In fact my last UC trip was thanks to 4x 10,000 miles given to me for four seperate complaints in the past 5 months. Miles are nice but I would rather have consistent service. It's not fun going through the sometimes unbelievable experiences to be in a position to complain and get 10k miles.

Perhaps I am picking too much because I'm getting tired of the ad hoc service and as Nottingham Nick points out I do have a choice, but its finding an airline with a similar schedule and with a similar product for a similar price.

If airlines like JetBlue and Southwest who have a considerable larger fleet can deliver a consistent product and service, what's up with VAA?

There are some flawed elements of the VS product (the food, the highly variable crew, the wine), but I have to say one area that stands out as excellent is the UC reservations line. They have been consistently good every time I have used them.

Originally posted by richarda
(on a side note Southwest is an example of a company that has not

You can thank fuel hedging for that.

Originally posted by Swanhunter
There are some flawed elements of the VS product (the food, the highly variable crew, the wine), but I have to say one area that stands out as excellent is the UC reservations line. They have been consistently good every time I have used them.

One distinction I definitely need to make is the difference in service between Customer Service in the States and the service in the UK. I have never had an issue while on the phone, or at check-in while in the UK. State-side service appears to be where I have issues. Now that I am giving it some thought, I believe the onboard issues I have experienced have all originated from a state-side departure as well. [i] Anyone from VS care to share my lightbuld? [:D]

Originally posted by richarda

If airlines like JetBlue and Southwest who have a considerable larger fleet can deliver a consistent product and service, what's up with VAA?

Hhhmmm ... have you seen the issues JetBlue's been dealing with in the last year? Southwest hasn't been doing all that much better, either - them and their hacked attempt at a business seating policy.

Airlines have been expanding rapidly in the last three years, without growing their staffing or equipment levels to match. A lot of them are running what can only be described as shoestring operations. You might see some of this reversed, IMO, with the coming softness in the economy - and this might take some of the pressure off. But in the end everyone is running more flights, selling them at comparatively cheaper rates than they were ten years ago (even if you have to add on another 500 bucks to pay various governments off for letting you fly), and fuel's costing them a boatload more than it was ten years ago. Service may well suffer.

On the whole, I think Virgin is still a good bet over american and european airlines - you can argue finer points of style and substance, but it does not get beat hands down by anyone in those markets. And they are very carefully not competing too aggressively with middle and far eastern airlines.

This doesn't justify some behavior we have all come across on flights or with certain customer service reps, but I'm not sure we are yet at an end of the road scenario for the company. And i get flung a fair bit hither and tither with airlines, I'd take Virgin over pretty much any of them. Just came back with them on Friday, and got on another flight in the US on Sunday - very quickly felt nostalgic for VS, I tell ya [;)]

If airlines like JetBlue and Southwest who have a considerable larger fleet can deliver a consistent product and service, what's up with VAA?

Both these airlines have a much simpler product being 'low cost' carriers and dont have the complexity of limo or lounges or different services for different routes.

VS is trying really hard to get consistent and customer service is top of the agenda and is really important. As the airline gets bigger things have slipped and since 2001 things have taken a massive turn since 9/11, Iraq war, SARS, Petrol prices, 7/7. There have been so many hurdles to overcome.

As we know everything is getting more and more exspensive to run or maintain, I hope you notice a positive increase in the service on your next flight.

Due to V-flyer we are very aware of whats going on at VS, this site is unique, if BA/AA/BD/UA/CX had similar 'fan' websites I wonder if we would see flaws with these airlines too??

I'm not as despondent as some on this - generally, my twelve flights in VS this year so far have been good, mostly down to bright and efficient crew members (albeit with a couple of hiccups and I'd still like to see a FSM greeting more regularly than 1 out of 12).

That said, where problems have occured it seems to me it is almost entirely down to the back room staff - the ridiculous policy of loading one bag of crisps in UC, shortages of champagne, poor cheese offering, bad IFE screens, dirtyness, delayed flights due to an overstretched fleet ... all of these sort of things are down to operational managers trying to save pennies and damaging the reputation of the airline in the process. I think it is they who really need to pull their socks up - I feel for crew members dealing with such nonsense and think by and large they do a damn good job.

Additionally, for me at least, the new Upper Class Wing and private security is fabulous, a real winner. When I do fly PE I love the seat. The clubhouse at LHR is as good as ever, the new one in Boston well received. Unlike Richard, my experience of the FC Au staff has always been good, and recently exceptional when on a very tight schedule in New York (not passed over to anywhere on the US number and very helpful).

I don't think overall that things are as bad as some make out, but the cheap penny pinching needs us to remain alert while recognizing that VS has to manage itself as efficiently as possible in the current climate. It's true that if the lens that is shown here over VS was applied to other airlines then we'd find plenty to mull over, and as Marc Anthony said, the evil lives long after while the good is buried (sic. !) - aka a bad story gets ten times the coverage of a good one. Finally, VS on a crap day can still be better than many.

[Nottingham Nick]

Well said, Slinky. [y]

Very well written Slinky.

Thanks guys - in the next three weeks I have flights on Jet, Cathay Pacific and Virgin all in business and long haul - I'll do a compare and post it. The only single thing I am looking forward to so far, apart from the familiarity that is VS, is the Dom Perignon served on Jet ... knowing that Hindus largely do not drink, I am hoping there's a load for me!

And if I might add, operational managers perform under the guidance of senior management ... so the buck stops with Mr Ridgeway - if we have a problem, we should let him know.

[Scrooge]

Originally posted by slinky09
Thanks guys - in the next three weeks I have flights on Jet, Cathay Pacific and Virgin all in business and long haul - I'll do a compare and post it.

I for one look forward to that, thank you in advance.

You are right about the penny pinching, in the end it will end up costing them money, what may seem like a small trivial annoyance (no crisps in UC) can become a thorn in someones side, is it really worth the risk of losing one UC pax over the cost of a bag of crisps ??

I am shocked at the amount of bad press VS service seems to be getting lately, but I must add my 2 cents.

Well prior to my little trip this week with Virgin Atlantic I had a very poor view of them following my last flight in 2005(yes it has taken me 3 years to calm down, and take back my 'i'm never flying with you guys again' attitude) I am so glad I did, it was only a last minute booking and in Y class but I must say, considering it was only economy, the crew were certainly above average, call bells answered straight away, reasonable wine, several services offered without complaint or sour faces(unlike other airlines) and they did not stop. Considering I travelled the day after the IFBT news, although I bought it up not one negative comment was said or passed- highly professional.

Having travelled and due to travel in premium and first/upper classes of several airlines, I would not say my expectations were low, but rather the opposite. Definately how an economy service should be from my point of view.. as for their UC service, well I shall try that first hand soon enough!

Its been interesting reading the responses posted and I think it reinforces the point that consistency is a real issue.

Training is at the heart of much of my issues. It's no effort to smile and welcome a passenger at the check in desk or ticket sales - which often when away from the UK, they don't, (don't leave it until the passenger boards the aircraft to receive a warm welcome). Be consistent in your decision making. Once a passenger identifies a hole, they exploit it (i.e. allow you to pay to enter the clubhouse and the next time 'we only allow Upper Class and Au pax'. Make sure your product offering is serviceable. I know your fleet is stretched but the crew provide flight reports after every sector so minor maintenance should not be a problem.

Take the Customer Relations remit out of the hands of (Director of Sales & Marketing) (sales only care about sales, not service) and place it under the wing of (Director of Product & Service) Then get xx on some flights talking to pax about the product and the service and feed it back to the Board. Not just the lucrative pax in UC but across the cabins. I travel across all cabins so an Economy pax can be as valuable as a UC pax.

Regular feedback sessions from FSM's, crew and ground staff should happen to gauge a temperature of the service being encountered by pax and action plans drawn up to combat it.

It would be nice when I take the time to write in and compliment staff who have provided great service that they get notified about it. All staff, including crew are given e-mail addresses. No excuse. It would build staff morale too.

Finally, when you delay me at JFK for 4 hours (quite regularly) and I want to pay for an upgrade and you tell me there is no availability, I don't want to see crew flying jump seat getting bumped to a Premium or UC seat which has happened a few times now.







Staff members names removed by mod............ Nick

Originally posted by richarda
It's no effort to smile and welcome a passenger at the check in desk or ticket sales

Let me sum up in one example what I would call the Virgin Spirit.

A year or two ago I arrived at Heathrow early in the morning. Even UC can still leave you feeling tired and below par when flying the red eye, so I headed off to Revivals to try and perk up a bit. As I slouched my way to the showers I passed one of the ladies from housekeeping, and she bid me good morning and gave me one of the warmest smiles I have ever seen. Immediately my posture straightened and I couldn't help but to start smiling myself. Just one smile from Housekeeping, not a crew member, not anyone at the ticket desk or Customer Service, and I was set for the day.

To this day I still think of that lady, and she still makes me smile! And yes, Customer Service did get an email about her [:)]

Originally posted by slinky09
Thanks guys - in the next three weeks I have flights on Jet, Cathay Pacific and Virgin all in business and long haul - I'll do a compare and post it. The only single thing I am looking forward to so far, apart from the familiarity that is VS, is the Dom Perignon served on Jet ... knowing that Hindus largely do not drink, I am hoping there's a load for me!

Well, the service on 9W and CX will be better. The food also, and for that matter the wine too.

Against that only CX's new seat is competitive, the old one poor indeed (think J2000 but worse). Neither airline have a Clubhouse on offer (CX's Wing/Pier are good, but nowhere that good).

Look forward to seeing your views.

Originally posted by Swanhunter

Originally posted by slinky09
Thanks guys - in the next three weeks I have flights on Jet, Cathay Pacific and Virgin all in business and long haul - I'll do a compare and post it. The only single thing I am looking forward to so far, apart from the familiarity that is VS, is the Dom Perignon served on Jet ... knowing that Hindus largely do not drink, I am hoping there's a load for me!

Well, the service on 9W and CX will be better. The food also, and for that matter the wine too.

Against that only CX's new seat is competitive, the old one poor indeed (think J2000 but worse). Neither airline have a Clubhouse on offer (CX's Wing/Pier are good, but nowhere that good).

Look forward to seeing your views.

Dragged this back up ... now sitting in my suite at the Peninsula in Beverly Hills and subject to further information to be posted in Other Airline TRs here's my overall rating:

1. Virgin Atlantic
2. Jet
3. Cathay Pacific

Here's some more detail:
Seat/Bed
1= Jet/Virgin - Jet much better as a seat, VS as a bed
distant 3rd - Cathay (narrow, hot, cramped, badly made, terrible design, uncomfortable, falling apart already ...

Space and Cabin
1. Jet by a mile, really excellent layout, best in class space, onboard loos were fabulous
2. Virgin
3. Cathay

Onboard Service
1. Virgin - yes really, Cathay got lots right but did not beat the friendliness and attentiveness of VS
2. (close second) CX
3. Jet

Food and Wine
1. Cathay
2. Jet (despite serving DP)
3. Virgin (no surprises there)

Entertainment
1. Jet
2. Virgin (would be no. 1 if not for the crappy monitors)
3. Cathay (good selection, but dull)

On Ground/Airport
1. Virgin
2. Cathay - distinctly unimpressed by The Pier at HKG
3. Jet - would be difficult to be better having to content with Indian airports!

All in all, if I had a choice of all three on the same route I would unhesitatingly choose Virgin - just sort the food out please and buy wines that are more in keeping with the fares and competition!

I trust this is the correct forum to vent my anger at what happened at LHR today.

My nephew (40 years old) has had a traumatic time lately and been on the verge of a nervous breakdown. He felt he needed to get away from it all and decided to take a trip to San Francisco and tour around the US. As I have accumulated a very large number of miles I booked him an Upper Class return flight using some of my miles.

However when he arrived at T3 checkin this morning, he was asked if he would downgrade to premium economy and accept 50,000 miles, when he said he had better not as I had given the ticket to him as a present, she then repeated the offer plus two return tickets (presumably economy) and really using high pressure tactics. Fortunately my wife, who had driven him to the airport, was there and very forcibly said NO. I have no quarrel with someone just mentioning the day's special offer but 'No Thanks' should be quite sufficient. A couple of weeks ago at Orlando my wife was paged in the Delta lounge and asked if she would move her seat from 6a to 12a again she declined and was made to feel very awkward. We book our flights 11 months in advance so that we can benefit from any favorable fares and being able to choose the seats we like.

Over the years I, too, have seen a steady decline in the service, I really didn't mind losing the 'Oswald Boeting' travel case, but I was extremely upset at losing my Virgin Mastercard with double points. I wrote many letters to Mr Hutchinson saying that I thought it was a retrograde step but as usual the the replies received were full of nothing, hence I only use my AMEX to purchase Virgin tickets. Now we have the end of inflight beauty treatment, OK but why not tell us the truth and say it is another cost cutting exercise, I can live with that.

Having said all the above, I must say that on balance Virgin is by far the best Airline across the pond, I have never had a problem with the Cabin Crew, they have to put up with a lot and in my experience do so with a smile and happy countenance. Regarding the Food, I find it acceptable although it has gone down over the past year or two. I only drink water on the flight so I cannot comment on the wine.

I think this site is excellent, thanks to those who make it happen.

derekr, I would have snapped up the offer 50,000 miles which would get a one way UC ticket to the US, get to travel in PE AND two economy tickets??

I guess they were oversold on UC and needed the seat