Cabin Crew Pay Update *2nd NOV*

Cabin Crew Pay Ballot

The result of the recent and final offer pay ballot by the cabin crew union 'Unite' is that the offer was overwhelmingly rejected by the cabin crew.

We have been told by the union, that if the crew rejected this offer, the next stage is to ballot for industrial action, as this was the company's final offer on pay negotiation.

The 2nd offer by Virgin was poor and below inflation. If some amazing negotiation is not done asap, the next stage is industrial action ballot. (Which no one wants to see or do) however its looking more than likely!


The above is not company confidential info,as the union leader Brian Boyd has released this statement to the press below:

http://www.amicustheunion.org
Virgin cabin crew overwhelmingly reject latest pay offer
24 July 2007

The possibility of summer flight chaos drew nearer today when a consultative ballot of nearly 3,000 Unite cabin crew members overwhelmingly rejected Virgin Atlantics final pay offer.

The deal was rejected the by a massive 98.2% of returned ballot papers.

The company offered a 40 month deal with an increase to basic salaries of 5.3% in the first 27 months, this equates to an increase of half the rate of inflation over the first two years, with an RPI increase during the remaining 13 months. It would also have meant no increase to trip pay and other allowances for the first 15 months.

Unite/Amicus National Officer, Brian Boyd, said:

Our members work hard for Virgin Atlantic and have quite clearly arrived at a position where they believe their dedication and professionalism is being undervalued by the company.

The result of the Consultative Ballot will now be communicated to all our Cabin Crew members, with a further Industrial Action Ballot being conducted during the forthcoming weeks. The result of the Industrial action ballot would coincide with the August Bank Holiday.

This is a significant and powerful message for the Company, which Virgin Atlantic should not disregard. added Brian.

A further meeting of the Unite/Amicus Reps is now being planned to discuss the next step, and the unions Virgin Atlantic Pay Team remain available to discuss any improved offer that the Company may wish to put forward.

Ends

For further information contact Martin Scanlon, 020 7420 8934 or 07764 655751.

Notes for editors

1. Pay offer is a 3year plus 4 month deal. (40 months total). Basic rate increase in the first 27 months of 6.4%. Due to date of increase being moved twice Unite calculate this to be 5.3% over the first 2 years.

There will be no increase to trip pay and other variable elements of pay in the first 15 months of deal.

Third year will see increase at current RPI.

2. Other pay deals negotiated for cabin crew at other airlines:

a. British Airways 4.6%

b. British Midland 4%

c. Thomas Cook 4.6%

d. Monarch RPI over two years and holiday entitlement

e. GB Airways 4.8%

I truly hope everything is settled to the staffs satisfaction.

but

I am a little puzzled just how significant the %ages are to real net pay packets, is 1% up or down really significant enough to an actual pay packet to warrant the action...just a thought not a critizism.

What has the Union actually asked for, I havn't read this anywhere.

Originally posted by easygoingeezer
I truly hope everything is settled to the staffs satisfaction....

I certainly agree with your hope for things to be resolved.

On the 1%, it depends how you look at it. Obviously, say on a salary of £10,000 1% adds £100 and I suppose if you think you've got £100 in your pocket, £101 isn't a lot of difference.

But, take this scenario over three years:

£12,000 + 2% in year 1 = £12,240
£12,240 + 2% in year 2 = £12,485
£12,485 + 2% in year 3 = £12,734

versus

£12,000 + 3% in year 1 = £12,360
£12,360 + 3% in year 2 = £12,731
£12,731 + 3% in year 3 = £13,113

I think that does make a difference and obviously every shade thereafter. This is pretty much the argument that nurses, police and teachers made after years of below inflation rises, that the net result meant them slipping back further every year compared to cost of living increases.

I dont think any crew really want to go down the road of a strike, Lets hope that a solution can be found before it gets that far. What many people dont realise is actually what the average pay for Cabin crew is. Especially compared to Firefighters, Medics and those of other professions linked directly to public safety. (especially in these times of hightened security)

It is not just a question of pay but the first offer was 2% with conditions such as extra standby duties, so to get the extra pay more work was required.

What many crew really want is a fair wage and recognition for the work they do, a fair wage comparable to other scheduled airlines in the uk.


I Think the majority or crew are professional enough and would not want to inconveience any customers with a strike....

There should be no reason for any customers to worry at this stage as I am sure Virgin Management will do all they can to listen to the union and work a solution.

[i]
I Think the majority or crew are professional enough and would not want to inconveience any customers with a strike....

I think you have to understand that the uncertainty is actually worse than confirmed strike dates - and I accept that there may be no strikes but it's that very doubt that will cause me to book with other carriers. Hence VAA get less money in, and thus less money than they planned to have in the bank, and therefore less money to pay out in wages rises. Ho hum - there are other good carriers for cheaper prices.... and no strikes.

Originally posted by milehigh
I think you have to understand that the uncertainty is actually worse than confirmed strike dates - .............

Sure I appreciate what you are saying, But Im sure It wont come to that. Industrial action does not have to mean striking ! there are other ways for us to make a stand. I am in the union and I personally would not vote to strike, yet would take part in other action which does not affect our customers.

So if strike action goes ahead and flights were cancelled would VS have to give compensation to affected passengers or is there some getout clause they have?

Originally posted by milehigh
Sure I appreciate what you are saying, .............

To be precise about this, it is exactly the uncertainty ALONE that is enough to cause people, especially business people, to fly with another carrier, and as most people in business will tell you once a customer is lost (through something like strike disruption in this case) it can take a long time (and cost) to get them back.

Conversely, you've mentioned that action could be taken that wouldn't impact passengers - what exactly would that action be? I've been trying to think what would pressure the airline in a meaningful way if it didn't impact passengers and thus revenues???[:?]

Originally posted by vizbiz
Conversely, you've mentioned that action could be taken that wouldn't impact passengers - what exactly would that action be? I've been trying to think what would pressure the airline in a meaningful way if it didn't impact passengers and thus revenues???[:?]

Well,
how about
ignoring passengers call buttons,
only coming round with one drinks service per flight
run out of meal choices
hide in the galleys

oh wait............

[HighFlyer]

You been flying charter again Alan? [:D]

Thanks,
Sarah

Originally posted by HighFlyer
You been flying charter again Alan? [:D]

Thanks,
Sarah

No British Airways [:D]
Oh wait.......[:o)][:o)]

Thinking of a worst case scenario, if industrial action does take place over the August Bank Holiday weekend, would that be Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday? I am abit concern as I am flying on Friday 24th Aug.

Obviously hoping both parties will reach an agreement.

That oh wait comment is out of order. If you were not joking.
We work hard when we go to work!

Originally posted by AlanA

Originally posted by vizbiz
Conversely, you've mentioned that action could be taken that wouldn't impact passengers - what exactly would that action be? I've been trying to think what would pressure the airline in a meaningful way if it didn't impact passengers and thus revenues???[:?]

Well,
how about
ignoring passengers call buttons,
only coming round with one drinks service per flight
run out of meal choices
hide in the galleys

oh wait............

Excellent[:o)]

Originally posted by virgin is the best
That oh wait comment is out of order. If you were not joking.
We work hard when we go to work!

You need to read the MANY comments on many web sites to see how 'funny' it is to the people who pay your wages and consistantly complain about those actual scenarios. You are now looked at as not the funbky new different airline, but no better than the Charters and one of the main reasons apart from the condition of the aircraft and IFE, is the attitude of the staff.

As to your pay dispute, MANY people in other professions are not getting any pay rise, yet you, (as in the Virgin staff) have what looks to be an excellent package in a very difficult economic climate, plus your added perks your uniuon fails to mention. Yet you again want to treat the people who pay your wages, who on the B & S routes (who some of your fellow staff members have made derogitory comments about on other forums!) may be their only holiday all year, which they can have saved up for over a year or more, who also 'work hard' you are going to ruin that so you can be paid yet more for a service which has been going downhill for a long time. many of them do not get the salaries you get paid including your perks.
You don't like the wages? then leave, there will be more people prepared to carry out the job than will leave. [V]

If you do go on strike, you will lose many frequent fliers because of this. This will impact on your jobs.

Originally posted by virgin is the best
That oh wait comment is out of order. If you were not joking.
We work hard when we go to work!

Actually as much as I would like the dispute to be settled to the crews satisfaction, the comment posted was funny and did highlight what people have been seeing with much more frequency. The fact that its said tongue in cheek more highlights our loyalty to the brand even though we don't always get it reciprocated on flight B&S routes especially.

[Decker]

VITB

The fact that you bother to check a public forum where your customers share their opinions of flights and VS in general already shows that you are more concerned about the customer's perception of VS than are many of your fellow crew members. Alan's original comments whilst tongue in cheek will reverberate STRONGLY with a number of pax who haven't had the pleasure of your levels of service on their Y flights. If you read some of the TRs posted here for Y travel you'll find that these failings are regularly highlighted by disappointed pax. The difference with V-Flyer over say airline quality is that for the most part we are pro-VS so if we complain it's more about disappointment with being let down by a trusted friend than a wish to vent.

Alan's further comments on the crew's position are naturally his opinion but they are cogently argued. Whilst it is unlikely you will find them palatable we'd ask that all crew bear in mind that not everyone is going to agree with their position but that this does not in and of itself constitute a personal attack so we'd appreciate that any responses were kept non-personal.

Thanks Decker,

My opinion was not against any individual cabin crew member, but a maliase which seems to be growing within certain cabin classes.

We know that UC will be serviced very well and trip reports on here will criticsise the food, the IFE and the boarding process, but in the main, not the cabin crew (save for some return flights and lack of staff)

But in other classes especially Economy, the overall view from many forums is a lack of service from the crew.

The views on the pay strike are purely my own and will not be agreed with by many non-crew on this site. [:D]

On another site regarding the pay dispute, there is a comment from a cabin crew mamber that Virgin should pay their staff more than wasting it on updatiung the clubhouse in Japan!

I WANT Virgin to succeed, I WANT them to be different to the Charters and even other scheduled airlines, I want them to be known as a better service and experiance in Economy/PE and UC than the rest, instead of 'Virgins service is not worth the money over TCD'
I am sick of having to defend them on other forums about their awful Economy service, IFE timekeeping and general attitude to econ pax.
The strike is not going to help this situation, leading to lower prices to get the pax back and further cost cuttings to pay for these reductions.

I can understand pax comments about the standard of service going downhill.

When I joined Virgin over 10 years ago, it was the best economy product and the staff felt we delivered a good service to our pax.
However the cut backs to the service as a result of 9/11, have never been re-intoduced. Such as good amenity kits,individual bottles of wines and spirits,menus,brandy and baileys,hot towels,hot bread,metal cuttlery,snack boxes for kids on boarding,prizes for competitions etc...
Vigin said we would get all that stuff back once we started to make a profit. Well we do but where are those extras that made us different? No where to be seen!
Why do charter airlines have better leg room and IFE than Virgin (esp LGW A/C)?

I think you need to address the quailty of the service in economy with the company, its not the crews decision. Virgin has fallen behind and let itself be overtaken by other airlines. I would to see us back on top!

Another reason the service and 'attitude' from crew in ecomony is poor, is because Virgin hire staff who are TOO young with no life experience. We have now lowered the age to 18 to apply as crew.
As a FSM I get embarassed by these crew and the way they serve and speak to pax, however its Virgin who have made the decision to hire these people and lower the standard. As you know young people these days generally don't have very good manners or respect for people, but Virgin dont seem to care or understand this. I think the min age should be at least 21.

On the defence of the crew, when I started flying I got respect from pax and they complied with safety regulations and were generally polite. However now we have a totally differnt class of pax onboard (thanks to the low cost airlines)
I get abuse and confrontation on every flight now, im not saying all pax are like this however, people are not as friendly and patient as they used to be!

As an FSM I want to be paid what other FSM get paid at other airlines, im not asking for an unreasonable amount of money, just enough to cover the rise in the cost of living with inflation.
I love my job and working for Virgin and we do have good perks compared to other airlines, but I would happily give some of these up for more basic salary. Thesde perks don't pay my increasing mortgage or bills!

Its all very well and good for some people on this site commenting on money,telling us to leave if we don't like it, but if you are a company fat cat, im sure a 2% rise of your salary is acceptable. But 2% rise on £10k for a junior ccm is unrealistic and an insult to the hard work MOST of us do onboard the aircraft.

Anyway, it is now in the hands of 'Unite' to come to a solution.

Originally posted by milehigh
I dont think any crew really want to go down the road of a strike, Lets hope that a solution can be found before it gets that far. What many people dont realise is actually what the average pay for Cabin crew is. Especially compared to Firefighters, Medics

I don't agree with this comparison by the way - it simply doesn't stack up as valid IMHO.

Originally posted by AlanA
You need to read the MANY comments on many web sites to see how 'funny' it is to the people who pay your wages and consistantly complain about those actual scenarios. You are now looked at as not the funbky new different airline, but no better than the Charters and one of the main reasons apart from the condition of the aircraft and IFE, is the attitude of the staff.

Perhaps we all have to realise that air travel has changed hugely in ten years. Perhaps like society itself it has become more polarised, LCCs and cost focus have definitely affected the economy part of the equation, whereas investment in premium products means things like UCS have improved significantly. The days of old intercontinental economy are gone and perhaps we need to realise this.

As to your pay dispute, MANY people in other professions are not getting any pay rise, yet you, (as in the Virgin staff) have what looks to be an excellent package in a very difficult economic climate, plus your added perks your uniuon fails to mention.

I'm not sure Alan if you work in the airlines business, so are these subjective comments based on perceived perks or objective comments comparing VS with its primary competitors? Average pay rises were 4.5% in Q1 2007 so some people are clearly creaming it if others are getting nothing. This doesn't help anyone who's award comes in under that, whether performance related or not.

Yet you again want to treat the people who pay your wages, who on the B & S routes (who some of your fellow staff members have made derogitory comments about on other forums!) may be their only holiday all year, which they can have saved up for over a year or more, who also 'work hard' you are going to ruin that so you can be paid yet more for a service which has been going downhill for a long time. many of them do not get the salaries you get paid including your perks.

I think VSCSS has eloquently addressed this, junior crew will be consigned to the rear end, more senior at the front. That is right IMO but if Virgin's management have changed their approach to this perhaps we should be aiming more fairly. Also, I wonder what VS's crew attrition rate is compared to other airlines ... this might also be related to pay and conditions and effect service.

You don't like the wages? then leave, there will be more people prepared to carry out the job than will leave

That'll do wonders for customer service then.

If it means that the staff who are brought in are trained correctly and do not have chips on their shoulders like some of the current crew have, then yes it will.
IF however, the training is poor, then the airline will become a also ran with airlines such as FCA, MYT etc leaving them behind on the B & S routes and yes, even BA Max jet, etc on the buisness routes doing the same.

Being objective, what is the difference now between VS and the other airlines?
Flat beds? nope
Clubhouses? yes, but at the cost of good food onboard
Seat pitch?
IFE? [:o)][:o)]
Luggage allowance yes, but possibly the only one?
It used to be that Virgin was different in every class, now its lagging behind in some cases against even Charter airlines.

When I joined Virgin over 10 years ago

Clearly, you were around at VS 'in the good old days.' This, coupled with the fact you are a member of v-flyer, shows that you care about the views of the customer and thus it is understandable you feel angry when people criticise crew. However, it must be made clear it is not you people criticise; it is certain lazy, 'just along for the layover' individuals who perpetuate this attitude. Indeed, it is crew like yourself I expect are the ones we all value to fly with and value your work. Nevertheless, it is definitely not only cost-cutting that has led to a fall in the quality of the product, though still not your doing.

BTW, CX cabin crew had a one hour no-smile policy for each flight in a similar situation IIRC.

45.

An agreement has been reached so no strike. Thank Goodness!

Excellent news! [y]