Gloom and doom......

I've been vocal about poor service on VS, both having bought the cheapest of the cheap tickets and also having paid the maximum fare out there.

If you have a product offering, you need to have consistency, whether the person has paid 100 quid or 1000 for a Y ticket or other, service needs to be and should be the same.

Given the crushing oil prices that are out there, how about VS look at implementing some of the following:

Charge for alcohol in Y (I can't remember the last time I did a Las Vegas and the stag dos didn't drink the bar dry within 2 hours).

Dispose issuing amenity kits as standard and make them 'on request'. I NEVER use this kit and whatever cabin I'm in, it's still sat in the pocket when I deplane. Think of the fuel savings alone from less weight!

Limit the number of IFE movies in Y and charge a premium for latest releases.

Where people are paying extremely low fares in Y, charge a fee for the meal that reflects the cost.

These are just some of the possibilities to cut costs and improve service.

[RichardMannion]

I still think limiting Flying Club would save on costs too - back to the days of you must do 3 returns in Economy within a year before you can earn/join.

There is a cost for having that member, the fulfillment for a membership card etc.

I do think N fares should earn nothing at all. Take it as it is now, someone who never flies VS books a £250 NYC fare which in reality is about a £70 fare, and they earn there miles (albeit at 50%) and then they get their card sent to them, and they can then use those miles to buy at least 2 MpM fares. Why bother with this customer group?

The whole point of loyalty programs is to reward the loyal/regular customers, not the once in a blue moon on the cheapest of cheap tickets. I think the miles validity is far too generous in today's climate - if you aren't doing at least one VS flight a year then your miles expire, none of this oh well I'll just buy a case of wine or stay at a hotel to keep my account active. Not exactly a loyal customer it could be said. I wouldn't even bother sending out plastic to someone who did meet the 3 flight requirement, what is the real need for it?

Originally posted by RichardMannion
I still think limiting Flying Club would save on costs too - back to the days of you must do 3 returns in Economy within a year before you can earn/join.

There is a cost for having that member, the fulfillment for a membership card etc.

I do think N fares should earn nothing at all. Take it as it is now, someone who never flies VS books a £250 NYC fare which in reality is about a £70 fare, and they earn there miles (albeit at 50%) and then they get their card sent to them, and they can then use those miles to buy at least 2 MpM fares. Why bother with this customer group?

The whole point of loyalty programs is to reward the loyal/regular customers, not the once in a blue moon on the cheapest of cheap tickets. I think the miles validity is far too generous in today's climate - if you aren't doing at least one VS flight a year then your miles expire, none of this oh well I'll just buy a case of wine or stay at a hotel to keep my account active. Not exactly a loyal customer it could be said. I wouldn't even bother sending out plastic to someone who did meet the 3 flight requirement, what is the real need for it?

Not sure I entirely agree with you.

Loyalty programs are also intended to encourage you to use the 'product' in the first place and to maintain your custom. If there's too much of a lead in it might be discouraging to you and a competitor gets the business.

I suppose you could argue that 'Flying Club' is now really a Virgin group loyalty scheme, rather than a frequent flyer program, hence Uncle Richard will give you miles and expiry reset for buying his wine etc.. After all if you bought his wine just to reset your expiry, he has effectively encouraged you to give him a bit more of your cash that may have gone elsewhere.

Hmm, In Richard's eyes, I'm one of those FC members that should be kicked out.[:I]

I might do one flight a year or two if i'm very lucky and I go for the cheapest flight I can find.

However, even though I don't fly as often, my first choice is always VS, therefore I feel I show loyalty to them.

An alternative would be to reduce the time that can elapse before you lose the miles. Maybe instead of 3 years change it to a 1 year or 18 months.

I agree with DarkAuror, its 1 economy ound trip a year for me at the mo, but then i've also got a black amex and try to stay at miles earning hotels if possible (provided rates are sensible). I've also got mile earning flights on SQ and NZ as part of this summer's trip. My gf and I hope to have enough miles between us after this summer to get one 'G' ticket and then look out for a highly discounted 'Z' which is the only way we could afford UC - so I fail to see why our loyalty shouldn't be rewarded just because circumstances and finance don't permit us to fly very often?

[preiffer]

I think there may be some confusion here around terminology.

Flying Club is/was (to my knowledge) a FREQUENT FLIER SCHEME.


'Loyalty Scheme' brings up different images in my mind to that of a 'frequent flier scheme'. You can be loyal, but not a frequent flier.

Unfortunately, loyalty does not always = income. Frequency usually does.


That said, look at the first line of the FlyingClub page:

In the air and on the ground, Flying Club gives you better rewards than other loyalty programmes.

[:?]

Originally posted by preiffer
I think there may be some confusion here around terminology.

Flying Club is/was (to my knowledge) a FREQUENT FLIER SCHEME.


'Loyalty Scheme' brings up different images in my mind to that of a 'frequent flier scheme'. You can be loyal, but not a frequent flier.

Unfortunately, loyalty does not always = income. Frequency usually does.


That said, look at the first line of the FlyingClub page:

In the air and on the ground, Flying Club gives you better rewards than other loyalty programmes.

[:?]

But isn't this where the types of cards and tier points come in? I mean the more flights/tier points you take in 18 months then obviously the more benefits you get i.e. CH being for AU (and J)and not for Red.

Correct me if I'm wrong!

[RichardMannion]

Good to see some debate here. It's just strange how open FC still is, try and join BA Exec Club off the back of a bargain basement Economy fare. They will just laugh at you. Likewise, once you are in, unless you are on a top end Economy fare or travelling in a premium cabin, then the miles earned or tiny or non-existent.

I'm with Paul on this, as there seems to be some strange mix between loyalty program and frequent flyer program. Sorry to be harsh, but once or twice a year isn't exactly a term of loyalty - take it in another way:

What if you went to the same restaurant (or a chain) every year (or 6 months), would you expect them to recognise you as loyal customers? I certainly wouldn't be expecting to get a free meal or anything out of it after a couple of visits.

Look at what VH did with FVC, they changed it to an average spend calculation.

If you fly in UC, then being FC Gold does very little aside from earn you a mileage bonus.

How many flights make a frequent flier?
I normally make about 5 returns a year on VS, in PE or above and that seems pretty frequent to me (especially considering what I did a few years ago) but I'm sure some make that in a couple of months.

Apart from the colour of your card (and whether that colour was earned/kept on VS metal) what else can they take into account?

Dean

[RichardMannion]

I'd call that a frequent flyer, and Gold is perfectly suited in this instance as the times you use PE, you can get access to the CH's.

Once or twice a year is not a frequent flyer though. Hands up how many times a passenger has been seen on a plane/on the ground insisting they are a frequent flyer and are waving a Red card around.

Think my overriding point in my posts here is not about who/what a frequent flyer is, but why bother giving miles out on the bargain basement fares? Making people do a set number of flights in Economony (instant if one sector is in PE or above) and therefore producing a bit of revenue before allowing them to earn miles (maybe at a reduced rate) is no hard criteria is it?

I understand that there is a difference between a frequent flier and a loyal customer.

If I could I would fly more than one a year, however until I win the lottery that's not possible. However, to be loyal not matter how infrequent the flights, there needs to be an incentive to stay. Having the miles is a big one although the actual VS product is probably no. 1 to me, following experiences with other carriers.

I aiming to the day when I can enter the CH and to 'turn left' on the plane but until then I can dream and the slowly accumulating miles is making this dream closer.

Maybe the flipside is do make it more 'special' once you've reached Au. As Richard has said, once you have reached that plateau, there is nothing else. How about a different scheme with a personal service, that's tailored to your needs. Or CH only open to Au and J, no exceptions! no more giving away access to companies like Matterbox.

Or as I've said before reduce the period that the miles are held for before being deleted. Or maybe change the entry to join the club, like Richard mentioned. Maybe you need 2 or 3 qualifying flights within 18 months to 2 years then you start getting the benefits of earning miles.

[Nottingham Nick]

As I see it, the problem with a 'one size fits all' programme, is that whatever rules and qualification / re qualification criteria you introduce; there will be winners and losers.

As has been said, the big losers at the moment are the regular UC fliers, the current system is next to useless for them, which is strange. If I was running an airline, they would be the people I wanted to attract and retain - so I would make sure they got more then a few bonus miles, which is their only current benefit. I would have events and functions, just for golds - wait a minute, didn't they do that some time ago? [;)]

The current system is good for your once / twice a year flier, because of the very generous 3 year expiry rule, it means that real benefits (J flights) can be saved for over a long period of time. It is also very good for the flier who doesn't even do one flight a year - miles plus money fares (sometimes) are worth doing but, even better; the opportunities to get points without flying (credit cards etc.) mean that they can boost their points balance considerably and then have just as much chance of bagging reward seats as the Gold flier who pays for several UC flights every year. [?]

The real winners on the current system appear to be those people who fly 4 or 5 times a year in Y or PE - once we they have qualified for gold, retention is fairly doable on that number of flights, and Clubhouse entry perk is a real benefit.

I think the FC programme is basically sound, it just needs few tweaks.

Nick

[preiffer]

Originally posted by DarkAuror
How about a different scheme with a personal service, that's tailored to your needs.

That already exists - it's just you have to fly a lot more than a Gold card holder to be allowed to play... [;)]

Interesting points are being made here.

With a single one-way AKL-SIN and a single return LON-AKL-LON I will make Gold on Emirates Skywards over a total period of six weeks.

Hardly what I'd call frequent, but I'm not going to turn down the offer.

Howard

Originally posted by Howard Long
Interesting points are being made here.

With a single one-way AKL-SIN and a single return LON-AKL-LON I will make Gold on Emirates Skywards over a total period of six weeks.

Hardly what I'd call frequent, but I'm not going to turn down the offer.

Howard

Congrats Howard - as a Skywards Gold too I should forewarn you not to expect much. Yes the extra miles are nice, but Emirates reknowned lack of good reward seats is a downer, the purser (as EK call their FSMs) rarely makes a point of stopping by, and if the CC know your status they are pretty damn good at not bothering to do anything about it, you don't get to use the FC lounge at Dubai either (not sure whether that would be a bonus since the current DXB lounges are all sad and smelly)!

Originally posted by slinky09
Congrats Howard - as a Skywards Gold too I should forewarn you not to expect much. Yes the extra miles are nice, but Emirates reknowned lack of good reward seats is a downer, the purser (as EK call their FSMs) rarely makes a point of stopping by, and if the CC know your status they are pretty damn good at not bothering to do anything about it, you don't get to use the FC lounge at Dubai either (not sure whether that would be a bonus since the current DXB lounges are all sad and smelly)!

I've only ever been to the First lounge at DXB, and it wasn't particularly inspiring on any of the four occasions I've tried it, although the showers were very welcome indeed although last time I had a bit of a wait. If Champagne quality can be used to gauge the general standard, it was Veuve Clicquot NV.

The other EK lounges I've been in that I remember are AKL, SYD and BNE. They all have a similar theme with little excitement although the food on offer seems slightly more intricate than what you'd find in a BA Terraces/Galleries and an order of magnitude better than anything you'd find any US airline's Business lounge. Plus there's Champagne on offer, although it wasn't VC.

On board, it's a different matter of course, and I was most excited last month that they have introduced dessert wine onto the wine list. With only two pax in the F cabin AKL-SYD we managed to open up all of the eight wines on offer in the cabin that day.[^]

Howard

Expect a differnet experience at the new DXB terminal which will open imminently from what reviews I've read.

Originally posted by McMaddog
Expect a differnet experience at the new DXB terminal which will open imminently from what reviews I've read.

One would hope not like a T5 Experience...

I believe the orginal date in May had been moved now to August. Considering the huge expansion of Emirates, and Dubai itself, I am wondering if it might be too little too late!

I really hope that the transfer security procedure has improved since the last time I had to suffer it.

Remote stands for EK at DXB seem to have been the norm for some time. Does VS manage an airbridge at DXB?

Sorry, I am getting way OT here.

Howard

[honey lamb]

Originally posted by Howard Long

Does VS manage an airbridge at DXB?

Howard

No. The last time we were bussed in and out of the terminal

I can only manage two trips in a year max that doesn't make me less loyal if 100% of my flights are with Virgin I am still a loyal but less frequent customer. I think the word 'loyalty' is being miss-used a little on this thread.

Personally I think the rules are fine as they are but those that travel very very frequently should be offered more by way of customer appreciation rather than give less to others who take less trips but at the same time remain loyal.