Cabin Crew Pay Update *2nd NOV*

Seems over 70% of those who have voted are against strike action in their poll on http://myweb.lunarfun.com/wdmm/ (the proper address for the WDMM web site)

Do you think they will take any notice of the strong feeling against strike action??

Originally posted by AlanA
Seems over 70% of those who have voted are against strike action in their poll on http://myweb.lunarfun.com/wdmm/ (the proper address for the WDMM web site)

Do you think they will take any notice of the strong feeling against strike action??

Thats odd when I looked it was 90% for a strike today but not from your link[?]

'"Pay disputes are about 'negotiation' not victory or death of the company.' many a true thing said. As for the union

Does seem odd the union sort of went silent after the last meeting doesn't it.

Bought off or backed off because things were getting dirty

[Decker]

Well not if it is customers voting [:)]

I have kept very quiet on this topic purely because I have only got up to speed on the massvie thread in the last week or so but also because what I wanted to say had been said by others but I did follow Alans link to the WDMM site.

I did have to chuckle at the following which is now situated beside their now closed vote on to strike or not.

'And as a reminder this website is for VIRGIN CABIN CREW - If you are a customer please go to v-flyer and have a whinge over there'

Not exactly a great way to get support of loyal VS customers is it.

Originally posted by willd
I have kept very quiet on this topic but did follow Alans link to the WDMM site.

I did have to chuckle at the following which is now situated beside their now closed vote on to strike or not.

'And as a reminder this website is for VIRGIN CABIN CREW - If you are a customer please go to v-flyer and have a whinge over there'

Not exactly a great way to get support of loyal VS customers is it.

HAHAHA -- that's showing true colours, wot-wot? Self-important gobs, all of 'em, and I hope they get a financial enema.

OTOH, I'm so happy I have met some really great crew in my day, and I hope they get a wage that's equal to the value they bring to their customers! [y]

GJ

[Nottingham Nick]

Originally posted by willd
If you are a customer please go to v-flyer and have a whinge over there'

LOL, hadn't seen that. [n]

[RichardMannion]

Originally posted by Nottingham Nick

Originally posted by willd
If you are a customer please go to v-flyer and have a whinge over there'

LOL, hadn't seen that. [n]

I am frankly amazed at such disdain certain crew have towards both management and, worse still customers. What's that saying again, 'Biting the hand that feeds'?

Why bother creating a site then that is public to all, if they don't want non-crew to view it? What was that comment someone said about getting basics right....

Your Grace, they were probably attending particle physics class instead of 'how to effectively communicate' class. Happens all the time...

GJ

Originally posted by RichardMannion

I am frankly amazed at such disdain certain crew have towards both management and, worse still customers. What's that saying again, 'Biting the hand that feeds'?

Why bother creating a site then that is public to all, if they don't want non-crew to view it? What was that comment someone said about getting basics right....

Exactly.

Surely the WDMM lot would be wanting to get us lot onside to an extent. Sadly they have just managed to persuade me not to support them or there plans.

But then again maybe the true colours of the WDMM lot have now been shown.

Maybe Pete could put up a big banner on the home page that says, 'Welcome Whingers!' At least let them know we're ready for them with a light on and a cuppa... [:)]

GJ

[Scrooge]

Originally posted by RichardMannion

Originally posted by Nottingham Nick

Originally posted by willd
If you are a customer please go to v-flyer and have a whinge over there'

LOL, hadn't seen that. [n]

I am frankly amazed at such disdain certain crew have towards both management and, worse still customers. What's that saying again, 'Biting the hand that feeds'?

Why bother creating a site then that is public to all, if they don't want non-crew to view it? What was that comment someone said about getting basics right....

Well LRoM said it in a nicer way than I would...could..but wont...

You know this crap is really giving the 'good' crew a black eye..

FFS will someone please point out to the idiots that are putting this stuff up where the public can see it that the only way industrial action will work is if the traveling public is on the crew's side...S**t like this will just turn most people away from the crew's point of view.

Let me put it to you this way...I am going to be spending upwards of $10k next year on tickets to the Uk...does anyone here think I should give a company that money..who then pay their workers with the profits from said money..only to be talked about in this way...let me see...F**k You

You just have to give people enough rope sometimes.

I rest my case.

Prehaps we should start a similar site WDSWPF we deserve service we paid for. Pity these jumped up little pipsqueeks let the pro's down.

I think BA will be welcoming me on board soon.

Originally posted by easygoingeezer
You just have to give people enough rope sometimes.

I rest my case.

Prehaps we should start a similar site WDSWPF we deserve service we paid for. Pity these jumped up little pipsqueeks let the pro's down.

I think BA will be welcoming me on board soon.

We're already flying with BA twice next year because Virgin don't fly where we are going (Cairo & Barcelona) and I can honestly say that if the WDMM attitude is representitive of what Virgins Staff think of their customers BA will be getting all my business next year.

These people on WDMM need to understand that customers have a choice and that they have an important role in influencing that choice every time they come into contact with their customers. One bad experience can often loose that customer forever.

It's a shame because I'm sure that the majority of VS staff are committed to providing a good service and help promote a good impression of the company and I have personally experianced exceptional service on several occasions especially during the terror alert last August.

The moderate staff should not allow themselves to be influenced by a few militants who don't give a damn about the company they work for or the customers who pay their wages. We've all seen what happens to people like this, remember the likes of Scargill and Red Robbo, who enjoyed a few brief moments of glory before disappearing into obscurity and eventually took their respective industries with them.

I hope that the company is able to recognise the important part it's staff play in it's success and sees the sense to compensate them accordingly. Industrial action is devisive, damages the company's reputation and the wounds it inflicts take a long time to heal. The longer this goes on the deeper those wounds will be and this will inevitably degrade performance.

For me, I neither want to put money in the pocket of a company that doesn't respect it's staff or in the pockets of staff that don't value their customers.

Miopyk[8D]

[Scrooge]

The moderate staff should not allow themselves to be influenced by a few militants who don't give a damn about the company they work for or the customers who pay their wages. We've all seen what happens to people like this, remember the likes of Scargill and Red Robbo, who enjoyed a few brief moments of glory before disappearing into obscurity and eventually took their respective industries with them.

For me, I neither want to put money in the pocket of a company that doesn't respect it's staff or in the pockets of staff that don't value their customers.

Miopyk

Two very good points, here is the thing from my point of view.

The noisy minority are being heard, on my VS flights last year I had good service in all cabins, so in some ways I will support the crews. However the crew also have to understand that as of next year things will be changing, in much the same way as LHR was the cornerstone for BA in the 80's ( and still is) it has turned into the same for VS. Now with open sky's coming up any airline that can get slot's will be flying in there, meaning more airlines on the bread and butter routes (NYC) and lowered profits and yes the need for better service and products.

But here is the thing to remember.

If the crew strikes they lose. The public is not going to care that VS management is not giving them a fair offer, they are going to care that the crew has just messed up the trip that they spent all year saving for. This hurts the airline both in a PR and $$ way.

As the airline starts to lose bookings because people don't know if the airline will be flying VS will start to bleed cash..now where is the first place they are going to look to save money...

Thought I'd add my 2p's worth.
When the issue was first raised I had some sympathy for the Cabin Crew not so much for a large pay rise but for the changes in their contracts. Alot of people commentated on how the crew knew what they were getting into when they applied for the job. This may be true but when your company wants you to change your working practices then this becomes a different matter.

However, after reading the letter on WDMM and some of the comments on various cabin crew forums I cannot believe their demands. I am rather hoping that this is a view of a few not the majority.

Firstly on morale, one poster suggested that morale was at an all time low and it has effected service onboard. Does this mean if the company meet their demands all trip reports on V-flyer will give 100% for cabin crew as we will see such a big improvement?

Secondly on strike action. The Crew need to remember that BA pretty much fly all the routes VS do. It's not rocket science to work out that people will just switch airlines. Also remembering that after reading several threads on this site that BA are sometimes providing a better service and are quite often cheaper.

I really hope VS do offer their CC a good but sensible deal but it's worth remembering it works both ways.

-Steve

I wonder which isp they blocked, now it says the strike poll was closed at 90% in favour, but neglects to point out that was from a total of 91 votes over some weeks out of a possible 2000+ crew members.

From what I have read from some staff members they don't want that much more than has already been offered and don't want to strike, I think the management should give them what they want and some recognition.

Employees that threaten to ruin the company and make public unsubstantiated and irrelevent allegations against it need to make way for people who want to work for VA and are begging to be accepted on the training programmes.

Either way you look at it, they are taking plenty of time sorting it out. In my opinion they have not been taken seriously for a few years & this years pay offer should have been with effect April 2007. It's nearly October, some silly comments have been made by management at VS that has caused very bad relations between them & the crew.

For the passengers, frequent or one off, they just want to fly & enjoy their flight with NO concerns. Lets hope VS can get around the table & sort things out once & for all.

Originally posted by Denzil
Either way you look at it, they are taking plenty of time sorting it out. In my opinion they have not been taken seriously for a few years & this years pay offer should have been with effect April 2007. It's nearly October, some silly comments have been made by management at VS that has caused very bad relations between them & the crew.

For the passengers, frequent or one off, they just want to fly & enjoy their flight with NO concerns. Lets hope VS can get around the table & sort things out once & for all.

was that the 'pondlife' comment someone said they were told that someone overheard management say? mmmmm playground stuff.

No doubt the management are being,well management and stalling and trying to get the best deal for the company coffers, normal really
they arn't threatening to destabalise the whole company or posting infantile letters and emails on the web.

Management seldom take staff seriously and it takes a professional approach to hammer home that they should, I don't think WDMM has done anyone any favours.

Just assuming it all gets sorted and everyone is happy there are now thousands of customers who have read this site and others that will wonder if their flight will have one of those self obsessed, over opinionated, client judging militants on their next trip that might just treat them like pondlife.

Does anyone know how many of the Cabin Crew are actually members of this particular union?
If they go on strike, are we going to see the majority being bussed through the picket lines, or the minority?
say, 2,000 CC, if 500 are union members, how much effect would it really have? or is it 1,000, 1,500 ????? [:?]

So yeah, I haven't responded to this thread because frankly, parts of it look like the beginning of a mud-slinging fight.

Anywho, does anyone agree with me in that both the customers and the crew are stuck between a rock and hard place in trying to side with one particular view? I know I'm having that problem. I'm so socialist I can't help support the concept of unions, but then I (perhaps stubbornly) think that the crew shouldn't go on strike because it will inconvenience customers. I don't know, I'll probably stay on the side-lines for this. I am a bit surprised that the mere threat of a strike doesn't scare VS at all. Bleh. [|)]

Just pondering a few things..

Originally posted by VS-EWR
So yeah, I haven't responded to this thread because frankly, parts of it look like the beginning of a mud-slinging fight.

Anywho, does anyone agree with me in that both the customers and the crew are stuck between a rock and hard place in trying to side with one particular view? I know I'm having that problem. I'm so socialist I can't help support the concept of unions, but then I (perhaps stubbornly) think that the crew shouldn't go on strike because it will inconvenience customers. I don't know, I'll probably stay on the side-lines for this. I am a bit surprised that the mere threat of a strike doesn't scare VS at all. Bleh. [|)]

Just pondering a few things..

Thats the irony of it all, we more than any would support reasonable efforts and reasonable pay increases for cc's and sympathise with their plight, and its nothing to do with a big bad union either no one apart from WDMM has dissed Unite.

What a few loudmouths have done is alienate customers from crew, temporarily diss v-flyer on their website because their open to the public poll wasn'y going their way, and seemingly completely switch off any positive work the union was doing. And potentially open up the company to negative investigative media attention.

Well done WDMM, do you work for BA per chance?

In response to a few of the above posts.

I dont agree with WDMM bad mouthing customers - not cool. I guess the poll that was strongly in favour of strike action suddenly got bombarded with 'against' from one referring URL (the one in this thread). Naturally customers with flights booked are not going to vote in favour (or most aren't). One Particular IP doing the voting changed this (though I am surprised the poll can not be set to only allow one vote per IP). I think this upset WDMM or the web administrator and they maybe wrongly shot one from he hip, here I think a good move would be to post a little apology in the same place they reference 'whinging'.

WDMM undoing the work of the union, as has been suggested above, I believe WDMM has come about because people perceive the union as not really doing its job adequately (debatable)- suggestions of whimpering to the companies request and having no back bone to being in back pockets and paid off are all but some of the terms being used.

The union leaders got a few renegotiations, they perceived to be a better offer and they think they have earnt their % of everyone's salary by recommending a deal which turns out to be a 90+% no vote. Perhaps this is the sign of a union which is not adequately in touch with its members which needs addressing - which in part I do feel WDMM is doing. The formation of WDMM the strong No vote on a recommended offer will hopefully have sent a clear message to the union and they will adjust their stance accordingly in line with crew sentiment.

There have been two meetings this week between the union and management, no official statement has been released from the union yet however word on the street has it that the management are not happy with the outcome of these meetings. The company have now taken the step of contacting FSM's and CSS's to ask them to come in on their days off so they can talk to them about meeting a solution that is affordable to the company - unfortunately I dont think people will want to give up days off to hear a 3 hour lecture on why the companies offers have been so minimal/awful to date. Again - personally I think anything that had to be said has been said to the union and this will be communicated in due course. The company trying to persuade people to come in and talk to them directly following meetings with the union can of course be interpreted in two different ways...... I dont need to spell them out

Number of crew in the union, last figure I heard was more than 2500 and growing so a strike will cause serious disruption (though dont quote me on the number). More people are joining as people get upset with the offers thus far - the union must be loving that - though now its time for them to start earning their %
I understand that a lot of the union members are senior crew through to FSM so the problem will be finding crew to act as the above in the event of a strike, e.g. No CSS or FSM' no go.

Sorry to hear that many are going to BA, understandable though - it is sad but at the same time this alone should demonstrate to management that just the threat of Strike Action and the fallout of this (various things) is and will cost the company dearly in revenue, reputation and lost loyal customers, so I hope the management are taking this very seriously - just the threat of it already has forced some of you away.

VS-EWR sums it up perfectly really I think.

Again I dont condone WDMM's comments against this site but naturally almost everyone here is against strike for various reasons, the crew are for it for various reasons - but hey there will always be 2 camps.

G-Night

That has to be the nicest way I have been told to get stuffed and apologised to all at the same time[:o)].

One of the rules of an amicable resolution where one party gets what they want is to make it possible for the other side to keep some dignity, you need to give management a dignified way out or you will end up with nothing. There are no victors in 'amicable'.