Virgin Atlantic strike announced

So I've just seen the news and I have to say this is not good news for VS. The problem for everyone now is that Pandora's Box is open and it's going to be very difficult for everyone to walk away with some pride intact.

Reading the comments from VS, there will be no last minute offer which seems to destroy the pre vote theory from some union members that a yes vote would force the airline to improve it's then existing offer. So lets look at the facts.

The majority of crew did not vote to strike. If VS cave in and make a better offer this will inevitably store trouble for the next round of pay talks next year for all sections of the business. VS seem to be very confident of being able to run a pretty comprehensive service on the strike dates. VS have already engaged the PR machine to try and preserve customer confidence and minimise any damage there.

My conclusion is VS have every intention of riding this out since they cannot afford to do anything else. They will of course be hoping that the strikes will be poorly supported which will support this stance and strengthen their position for later talks with the union.

If this happens I suspect the end game will be effectively the previous offer on the table with maybe a few frills and the union recommending acceptance.

For anyone affected by this action I hope you are not inconvenienced to much.

Just my thoughts.

Miopyk[8D]

Originally posted by Pete

Withdrawing the offer once the strike ballot is announced is standard practice, something about the company not having to negotiate 'under duress' (or something along those lines). It would have been well known by all staff that that would happen in this scenario.

Oh absolutely agree - I didn't mean to indicate any other understanding - and so sometimes is reinstating it if the strike is called off.

Originally posted by miopyk
The majority of crew did not vote to strike.

Maybe so, but the majority of crew that did vote were in favour of a strike. Even if the crew voted no strike/didn't vote at all they can still easily choose to go on strike anyway on those dates (be it under pressure by the union or down to their own choice). So while the figures suggest that the amount of crew striking (assuming all crew who voted yes to a strike do go on strike) wil be enough for VS to operate all but 4 flights each way per day, it can still turn into a disaster for VS if more crew decide to strike which they are entitled to do so as part of their union membership.

[Pete]

Originally posted by VS075
it can still turn into a disaster for VS if more crew decide to strike which they are entitled to do so as part of their union membership.

Equally the pressure is on from VS to minimise the number of crew taking part in the strike. The question is who has more influence on them.

Striking workers receive no pay while on strike, and assuming VS don't get back around the negotiating table, that may mean more strikes and more unpaid days. There is also the threat that after 12 weeks VS can dismiss all the striking workers. I have been reading stuff recently that suggests they've been ramping up staff intake - perhaps for this very eventuality.

The flip side is that crew on strike will be calling on their colleagues to support them, and the intimidation appears to already be starting. There's some very offensive language being throw around on FlyerTalk - 'scabs, slimey and cowardly' - it's all a bit reminiscent of the late 70s. Personally I find it difficult to visualise the glamourous cabin crew lining up outside T3 being all shouty. Can you picket in Gucci heels?

[honey lamb]

Originally posted by Pete
A letter from Steve Ridgway is going out to Flying Club members overnight;

I haven't received mine [:#]

Originally posted by Pete

Originally posted by VS075
it can still turn into a disaster for VS if more crew decide to strike which they are entitled to do so as part of their union membership.

Equally the pressure is on from VS to minimise the number of crew taking part in the strike. The question is who has more influence on them.

Striking workers receive no pay while on strike, and assuming VS don't get back around the negotiating table, that may mean more strikes and more unpaid days. There is also the threat that after 12 weeks VS can dismiss all the striking workers. I have been reading stuff recently that suggests they've been ramping up staff intake - perhaps for this very eventuality.

The flip side is that crew on strike will be calling on their colleagues to support them, and the intimidation appears to already be starting. There's some very offensive language being throw around on FlyerTalk - 'scabs, slimey and cowardly' - it's all a bit reminiscent of the late 70s. Personally I find it difficult to visualise the glamourous cabin crew lining up outside T3 being all shouty. Can you picket in Gucci heels?

Only takes six weeks to train CC doesn't it?

how many intakes to replace 2,100 strikers? (Less ex CC in management positions and contract staff) After this prehaps VS should make all Cabin crew contract workers......

Originally posted by VS075
Maybe so, but the majority of crew that did vote were in favour of a strike.

I don't think this is in dispute. The point is that VS will be looking at their position very carefully based on everything that has happened to date including their own strategy. If you follow this through I cannot see them doing anything else but riding this out.

I also think that a lot of crew were led to believe by some of their more vocal colleagues that if they voted to strike the company would be forced to make a better (11th Hour) offer. When this doesn't happen many of them will realise that they have been sold the proverbial pup and I suspect for many this will leave them less inclined to go through with strike action.

Of course no one really knows what will happen until the day and this is just my view.

Miopyk[8D]

Originally posted by Pete
The flip side is that crew on strike will be calling on their colleagues to support them, and the intimidation appears to already be starting. There's some very offensive language being throw around on FlyerTalk - 'scabs, slimey and cowardly' - it's all a bit reminiscent of the late 70s.

The fact is that a strike is damaging to not only management-employee relations, but also to employee-employee relations.

A striker will never look the same way at someone who broke the strike and reported for duty for a long time, especially if the strike itself is unsuccessful. They may never work with them again in the same way, and could go out of their way to avoid co-operating with them.

That VS plan to operate such a comprehensive schedule is interesting. Could that be a strike-breaking tactic in itself?

'Oh, if it means they only cancel one flight in 10 on strike days, is it really worth striking.'

A quick bit of maths reveals that VS need about 450-500 crew to report for duty each day in the UK to operate the normal flying programme (usually 30 departures a day ex-UK), and that's without making allowances for non-UK based crew, for whom London is a downline destination - though this only applies to a small handful of flights relatively.

Unite's '3,100' number won't include the non-UK crew, as Unite likely doesn't represent them, and there are probably some who aren't union members, so that seems to tally with VS claim of having about 4000 cabin crew on their website.

So, VS only really need about 8 or 9% of their cabin crew corps to report for duty ex-UK each day. There were 1497 'Yes' votes to strike. 8% of 1497 is 120 people.

If you assume for a minute that strikers are spread out evenly across the days they are required to report to work, and only 'Yes' voters actually strike, only 120 people will be on strike on the first strike day, and 240 on strike on the second strike day.

That's about 7 aircraft's worth of crew, but we know that VS carry more than minimum crew.

Assuming crew are reshuffled, and augmented by non-flying staff with flying experience who are given refresher courses, that's where your 5 cancellations per strike day come from.

Mike

Given that BAA workers now plan to strike on the 7th and 14th, with VS's crew only two days after ... the effects of combined action could now cause several days of disruption.

Oh dear [:(]

[preiffer]

Hmm. I fly on the 15th. One day after the BAA strike, the day before the VS one.

SOME would say 'phew', but I have a feeling all is not going to be well...

Originally posted by preiffer
Hmm. I fly on the 15th. One day after the BAA strike, the day before the VS one.

SOME would say 'phew', but I have a feeling all is not going to be well...

I fly on the 15th too! [xx(][xx(]
I'm looking forward to the fun and games.

[Darren Wheeler]

Although VS say 'there will be no 11th hour offer', I'm sure there are some back-room negotiations going on to try and reach a deal. There are still 2 weeks before the first strike.

Hopefully there will be some kind of breakthrough before the deadline to cancel flights.

[Pete]

Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
Although VS say 'there will be no 11th hour offer', I'm sure there are some back-room negotiations going on to try and reach a deal. There are still 2 weeks before the first strike.

Hopefully there will be some kind of breakthrough before the deadline to cancel flights.

I don't agree. Virgin appear to be digging in their heels on this one (helped by the fact with only 30% of the workforce actively voting to strike, they've got options).

It's who blinks first; and neither side wants to. If the crew cave, then VS know their negotiations are toothless, and if VS cave, then every department knows they only have to push as far as a strike.

I think the company is better placed than the crew to survive this. No. Really.

Curious if there are any thoughts re the knock-on or knock-back re shuffle of flights. I would have thought that VS would send BOS pax to NY (VS 11/12 are canceled all 4 days of strike) but the VS letter says only NY pax will be booked the same day -and everyone else on 'alternate' days which I take to read either prior to or post the 48 hour strike days. I have colleagues flying out on the 10th who have yet to hear what their new assignments are--and no one at VS is able to advise them as yet, which does play a bit of havoc in trying to determine if they should be asking for a refund and re-booking elsewhere. BA are now matching the UC sale.

Prior to the strike annoucement, when seat info was pulled, Expert Flyer showed BOS flights relatively full down back (light up front) on the 9th and 10th --as well as on the 8th and 11th. Not sure how a full flight can be easily expanded to accommodate another full flight? I'm sure contingency plans are in place to cover this--but haven't a clue how?

cheers,
RR

[ii]

Originally posted by roadrunner
Prior to the strike annoucement, when seat info was pulled, Expert Flyer showed BOS flights relatively full down back (light up front) on the 9th and 10th --as well as on the 8th and 11th. Not sure how a full flight can be easily expanded to accommodate another full flight? I'm sure contingency plans are in place to cover this--but haven't a clue how?

Possibly by moving passengers to other airlines ?

Paul

[Darren Wheeler]

IIRC, LHR-BOS is quite well served by BA, AA, and UAL so that shouldn't be an issue. Failing that, they could route via JFK/EWR and arrange internal connections. Might even beat the normal arrival time too.

Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
IIRC, LHR-BOS is quite well served by BA, AA, and UAL so that shouldn't be an issue. Failing that, they could route via JFK/EWR and arrange internal connections. Might even beat the normal arrival time too.

Thanks for this but my query isn't actually about independent pax choices--it's in interpreting the VS letter--which seems to say that they will offer BOS pax VS accommodation only when the strike is not in effect--how likely are they to put them on competitor aircraft flying out on the original date/time?

Cheers,

RR

[honey lamb]

Originally posted by roadrunner
Thanks for this but my query isn't actually about independent pax choices--it's in interpreting the VS letter--which seems to say that they will offer BOS pax VS accommodation only when the strike is not in effect--how likely are they to put them on competitor aircraft flying out on the original date/time?
RR

To be honest RR, it's still early days. Obviously in some instances such as the cancelled NYC flights it is easier enough to reschedule passengers on other flights but with regard to the BOS flights they could well be negotiating with other airlines. There is also the possibility that the situation may go to ACAS (I think that's it. It's the UK equivalent of out Labour Relations Commission) for resolution.

There was also the possibility that they were waiting to see what was going to happen to the BAA strike. To be honest that was of more concern to me than the VS one. I felt from reading the various posts on V-flyer that there was a strong possibility that there would be minimal disruption but for me BAA was the big bad wolf as it was entirely possible I wouldn't even get to LHR for my VS flight

the company have said they plan on running a full service with the exception of 3 flights, which will be cancelled. these are on the website i think, i will put them up here later, unfortunately i haven't time at the minute, but i think they are NBO, and two of the JFK's. the HKG/SYD will have a high priority so dont worry too much. Also the crew is made up of british and national crew. National crew are paid slightly different and won't be taking part in a strike so thats should be of some comfort to you. I for one will be going to work. I am rostered on those dates to fly and am happy to cross any picket line.

Originally posted by johnvscrew
the company have said they plan on running a full service with the exception of 3 flights, which will be cancelled. these are on the website i think, i will put them up here later, unfortunately i haven't time at the minute, but i think they are NBO, and two of the JFK's. the HKG/SYD will have a high priority so dont worry too much. Also the crew is made up of british and national crew. National crew are paid slightly different and won't be taking part in a strike so thats should be of some comfort to you. I for one will be going to work. I am rostered on those dates to fly and am happy to cross any picket line.

Its ironic really that the very crew that are NOT prepared to inconvenience passengers like yourself are the ones that deserve a big fat payrise[oo], I hope your dedication is rewarded and noticed by the management.

thanks, your comment is very well recieved. When i took the job with virgin i took a £600 a month pay drop, but i do honestly feel that we should be paid more, however i'm not prepared to see the comany suffer for a pay rise. i love my job and want to keep it. I'll do anything to ensure job cuts are not the result of foolish actions.

Originally posted by Pete
. There is also the threat that after 12 weeks VS can dismiss all the striking workers.

Only if the company negotiate after industrial action has begun otherwise it is automatically unfair dismissal.

VoR

I just want to say sorry to all our customers on here who are loyal to Virgin. I voted no to strike and yes to the last offer. I am sorry that some of your plans may have had to change because of some of the selfish cabin crew I work with. It's not only affecting them now it's affecting the whole company and all our customers. How can the law protect people who refuse to do the job they are paid to do. They should all be sacked. The Airline would be much better off with out them. I will be flying on strike days.

Originally posted by virgin is the best
I just want to say sorry to all our customers on here who are loyal to Virgin. I voted no to strike and yes to the last offer. I am sorry that some of your plans may have had to change because of some of the selfish cabin crew I work with. It's not only affecting them now it's affecting the whole company and all our customers. How can the law protect people who refuse to do the job they are paid to do. They should all be sacked. The Airline would be much better off with out them. I will be flying on strike days.

I for one appreciate how you care for your customers (even though I haven't been on any of your flights your apology says it all) and your intentions to go to work on the strike dates, but sadly now that there is a strike the damage has been done (by your colleagues who voted to strike) and on the day I wouldn't mind predicting even more damage being done.

However...

I wouldn't go as far as saying that the crew who voted to strike should be sacked for reasons discussed to death in the now locked original thread. You can disagree with them sure, but they (and yourself) were given the right to vote to strike and they chose to do so (if you think this is bad take a look at France!!!). Whether you like it or not the law is there to allow this (a lawyer/solicitor will be able to explain all of this to you) and yes I can understand how the law can allow for stuff that shouldn't really be allowed, but at the end of the day your colleagues are trying to get a fair deal from VS and they are doing every trick in the book to do this.

I accept that you disagree with their actions but what can you do to stop them? If you don't like them for it, leave VS and join another airline rather than wishing that Father Christmas gives them a Form P45 on Christmas Day because they've been bad by voting to strike, especially on a public forum. If a deal comes out as a result of a strike you should be thankful (I know I would) as you may just like the sound of the deal that is agreed (if any of course), and remember that on your next flight you could be working with crew who have voted to strike.

I'm sure VITB will be refusing any extra money that is made available through the action of the 'selfish' crew!!!