Cabin Crew Pay Update *2nd NOV*

the airline are also making it very clear what the plans will be during the strike if there is one, anyone calling in sick will be classed as on strike, anyone not wishing to cross the picket line cause they are too scared, will be classed as on strke. they are really laying down the law and making plans for it, again IF it happens. the last offer remains on the table and i strongly think as do many of my collegues that the vote back will be a large no and all of you travelling over the xmas period will be fine and recieve the very best of virgin service

Thanks for the update johnvscrew and voiceofreason.

Apologies if this sounds selfish, but I'm very relieved. I am flying out this weekend and back the following weekend, and have spent the last couple of months worrying myself sick that my long awaited holiday is going to be in jeopardy.

I really do hope this strike doesn't happen and both sides come out happy, and not forgetting those passengers due to fly out later this year/early next year get to their destinations without disruption.

Originally posted by johnvscrew
anyone calling in sick will be classed as on strike,

..unless they have a doctors certificate, we cant go discriminating against ill people now can we !!

[Darren Wheeler]

Just go sick a day before, get a certificate for stress......

actually if you read it you must get a doctor cirtificate, even for one day then phone both crewing and a manager then after the sickness you will have a meeting with your manager to discuss it?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Yes, That's what Virgin want us to do, I'm sure the union will advise along with the ballot what our legal rights are and what the company can and cant do.

'actually if you read it you must get a doctor cirtificate, even for one day then phone both crewing and a manager then after the sickness you will have a meeting with your manager to discuss it?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!'

WTF? The contract states otherwise so surely if Virgin decided to change the contract as they feel fit then that is breach of contract?

[Pete]

I suspect the management would be very careful to stay on the right side of employment law during any strike action, as the Union is going to be scrutinising their actions carefully.

Without knowing the full details, either the current sickness policy is a separate procedure from the contract, or subject to a change clause, or (because technically strikers are in breach of contract) they can implement new procedures during any strike action. What you can be sure of is they will withdraw any and all benefits they are not legally obliged to provide from any employee on strike, or not presenting themselves for work during a strike without good cause.

It's tough, but not unexpected.

But Peter if you are not on strike i.e. not in the union or don't want to strike then if I call in sick I am not in breach of contract because I'm off work due to being sick.

My contract says I get paid for the first 7 days without a Doctors certificate.

The company amending the sick policy is just another threat.

So glad I only have a few more trips to go [:X]

[Pete]

Then potentially you may find that part of the sickness policy isn't part of the contract, per se, or it's allowed to be modified as part of the contract. Either way, management wouldn't risk introducing something which the Union could challenge them on (let's face it, everything will be under scrutiny).

yeah peter i think your right, for me, it's just a little un nerving to see the airline planning for a strike. I for one don't want us to strike so to read this info on ifly is a bit scary. ah well at least we should know what happening on the 20th and finally, we can get all this sorted out and done with.

Its a tricky one... Tough tactics to scare crew into voting NO, I think think the company are working on similar turnout, results and percentages to the last ballot meaning with small modifications they can run a near full flying programe.

Yet they may be misled in thinking this as many people who voted to accept the deal are concerned now that by not striking the company would see the union as useless and get away with what they want in the future?

Lets hope it does not come to this but there are big decisions to be made by union members that will effect not just them, the airline and its customers.

lets hope sense prevails !

I would like to congratulate everyone for getting us to a record 40 pages of discussion -- much of which has been illuminating and well-intentioned. No doubt the remainder of this saga, yet to play out, will carry us to ever-higher numbers of thread pages...the sky's the limit! [y]

The results of the strike vote will certainly be interesting to follow.

GJ

You are right milehigh. I've flown with a lot of crew recently who said yes to the last pay deal but now its got this far will also be voting yes to strike. We go back into pay talks next year and need to be in a strong position.

Originally posted by flybird
You are right milehigh. I've flown with a lot of crew recently who said yes to the last pay deal but now its got this far will also be voting yes to strike. We go back into pay talks next year and need to be in a strong position.

A case of crew striking to fight for what they've already been offered?

'What do we want?'

'What we've been offered!'

'When do we want it?'

'Never!'

I really do wonder about the intellect of some of these folk...

[Pete]

I think, mdvipond, there is a belief that Virgin Atlantic wouldn't possibly let it go to a strike, so in the face of it they'd pull out an 11th hour better offer.

Personally I believe, looking at the percentages of staff that voted no and the language coming from the management, Virgin probably think they'll be able to ride out any industrial action and deal with the strikers in an appropriate and legal manner 12 weeks afterwards. If you know much about strikes, you'll know what I mean [;)]

I have to agree with you, voting yes to the pay offer and then yes to a strike really is quite nonsensical.

my thought exactly, virgin have stated there will be no eleventh hour offer, but then again the union is saying there will be, at the end of the day...it gets dark! no! i mean at the end of the day we will just have to wait and see. i still think instead of striking we should be just doing away with the service and just do the safety side, would make our piont alot better and passengers would be more on our side. i am still going ahead with voting a big fat NO, and will be happy to cross any picket lines to get to work

Originally posted by Voice_of_reason
Unite have confirmed all member details and advised Virgin Atlantic that crews will be balloted on 3rd with result on 20th December.

Can someone explain what this means in terms of if the vote is Yes for a strike? Does that mean the strike would begin on December 21st?

I am booked to fly VS on Dec 21st, hence my concern.

J

[Pete]

I think (and I'm sure someone will correct me on the detail), if it's a yes to strike, it means the strike action has to happen within 3 weeks of the 20th, but not necessarily on the 20th and at this stage there's no official word on how long it would be.

Originally posted by Pete
I suspect the management would be very careful to stay on the right side of employment law during any strike action, as the Union is going to be scrutinising their actions carefully.

Without knowing the full details, either the current sickness policy is a separate procedure from the contract, or subject to a change clause, or (because technically strikers are in breach of contract) they can implement new procedures during any strike action. What you can be sure of is they will withdraw any and all benefits they are not legally obliged to provide from any employee on strike, or not presenting themselves for work during a strike without good cause.

It's tough, but not unexpected.

Spot on Pete. From a legal point of view there is no way that VS will get themselves into a tough situation. I would imagine that their own in house legal team has sort the advice of all the firms on its advisory panel- which IIRC include at least 2 magic circle firms plus Virgin Group's usual lawyer Harbottle & Lewis.

By striking the cabin crew members are breaking their contract and thus VS can introduce what 'rules' they like- but clearly these have to be within certain guidelines.

Originally posted by Pete
I think (and I'm sure someone will correct me on the detail), if it's a yes to strike, it means the strike action has to happen within 3 weeks of the 20th, but not necessarily on the 20th and at this stage there's no official word on how long it would be.

Thanks, Pete. So many 'ifs'. If the strike is Yes, but it does not start right away, then I will get to the states. However, as I'm due to fly back on the 4th of Jan, I could still encounter issues. Not to mention if the BAA workers strike. What a joy!

J

I will be voting No to a Strike, I really hope that the majority of crew do as well.

For our customers and the companies sake.

YES from me

[Pete]

flybird, given your imminent departure from the airline, do you not think the best vote for you is to abstain? You're not going to be around to either benefit from, nor clear up the mess that would be caused by strike action.

Pete you might be right but going to vote yes anyway