First Virgin Flight, PE, IAD/LHR

HELLO,Mrs Ned and I will taking VS22 to LHR in a couple of weeks, and I'd like to ask a couple of questions please. It's our first Virgin flight,though we have both travelled on different airlines in the past, which is why we are now ready to try the BEST, as we have been told.
1- We are flying PE,on the ticket it says,A-340-300, ROW H,from the seating plan it seems we will be over the middle of the wing, will we see DC from the air as we take off from Dulles?
2- As PE, will we be able to use any lounge in Dulles if there is one, or are the lounges strictly Upper Class.
3- will we [or I,] be allowed to wander about the plane, or be restricted to PE/ Economy for a stretch now and again?.
4- is PE check in faster than ordinary?
5- Is PE really worth the extra money asopposed to Eeconomy, when reading the Virgin Site, it seems a lot to pay for a glass of Champagne, [wider seats apart]
5- There aren't many posts in the forum regarding IAD, does this mean it should be a quiet flight? [fingers crossed]

Thanks for the advice in advance, I appreciate any help given, I am looking forward to this flight, though first from Dulles,and First with Virgin is a bit scary. They who shall not be named" usually got my money from Logan, but we moved, and Virgin doesnt fly from BWI..
Thanks again

Hi ya Neddy,

Good to hear from you - love your name as its unusual in the UK - but we have all heard of a certain Mr Flanders - "okelly dokelly" - sorry!!!

Anyway, according to the "which aircraft " part of this exceelent website you shoudl be in an A340-600 - the newer version of the Airbus - however there are so clever peeps here who can tell you the actual plane - must ask how they do that!!!
Therefore yoru PE seats should be OK although you dont get a Toilet in your area!! You say Row H but H is the seat lettering and not the row number - have you been to the Virgin Atlantic web site and booked/checked your seat - then you can come back to this site and see if it is a good'un - or you can move it yourself if there is availability!!!

Seeing the ground out of any plane depends on many things and being over the wing does not always prevent a view - someone who has flown in a 346 can let you know better!!

Dont know Dulles but usually PE passengers have no lounge access!!

You can sometimes wander the plane and sometimes PE can use the UC bar - just ask - if its not too busy then its usually a YES!! Dont forget this is good marketing!!!

PE check in is usually separate from economy - but I dont know about Dulles!!!

Yes - its worth the extra - particularly when travelling west top east like you are doing - and its far better that BA E+ or whatever they call it!! And when you get that glass of champers you will feel a "fine"!!!!!

Cant answer the last question - maybe you will star a flood - give us a trip report out and back!!!

Have fun in the UK with Mrs Neddy and if you need any tips on Restauarants or other UK stuff then just ask away!!!!

Thanks Mark for the info, seats are 21H and 21K,

The Ned bit comes from Neddy Seagoon,I am told I am the spitting image of him. Hope you are aware of the Goon Show my lad !!!

I am British, American via marriage to Mrs Ned doncha know, and heading back to good ol Blighty for the first time in about five years. Just in time to pay a fiver a gallon for petrol...roll on the chicken-**** engine..although then they'll have us twice, once for fuel, and once for eggs.

[RichardMannion]

Hi!

First of all welcome!

I've been through IAD a few times, and to be honest now - Clubhouse is nice and food is good but I have had major problems with staff on two occasions - I've avoided flying thru there when connecting to a VS destination, BOS doesn't have a Clubhouse but the staff rock. I will probably go back thru IAD again later this year to see if the situation has changed - I know that there have been a few changes on the staff front. Must go back to the Spy Museum and also to spend some more time looking round Georgetown!

MarkJ has done a good job on the whole to answer your questions but let me try and add some more if I can:-

1. Looks very certain that you will be on a 346 (Airbus 240-600). All 346's have the new style PE seat (Kash) which is quite nice, It is much better than the seat on the 300 airbus. Some people don't like the fact that the legrest is now attached to the seat infront compared to the old offering where it was part of your seat. The major beenfit for you though if you are on a 346 is the V:Port IFE system, you will eb amazed by the choice of programs available - there were over 50 films alone on my flight last month - the flight flew by . Please just bear in mind that soemtimes flight operational changes are amde, so you may find yourself on another aircraft.

2. No lounge access for PE passengers as per se. PE passengers have no lounge access at any VS operated route - there was a UK promo a few years ago where they got lounge access - but it was not to CLubhouses and the promotion has long ended.

3. You can wander around in PE or Economy, but not in Upper Class. If at any time you are assked to return to your seat by any of the crew you must do so. Walkign the aisles is encouraged but try not to do it during meal services. On MarkJ's comment about the bar, in my experience, this has never happened. UC passengers would become a little miffed at this - which is understandable. If you want to take a look at a UC suite or cabin, then I would ask one of the crew nicely and when its not busy they will normally be happy to oblige.

4. Yes PE check-in is faster than normal (Economy) - usual check-in queue will be 5-10 minutes at the most. Exonomy queue is nicknamed the snake, and when you check in for your return flight at LHR, you will see why - the average wait time can be upwards of an hour.

5. If you do a search, you will see that this question gets asked regularly. In my opinion, yes PE is worth the money; My rule is that if the flight is over 8 hours then its PE for me, however if there is a special offer on PE for a shorter flight then I will take it. Its all about multiples of available Economy fare for me.

6. I wouldn't say IAD will be a quiet flight, the times I have flown there and ack, it certainly hasn't. Some routes do have quieter periods, others are busy all the time like LAS (Vegas).

Let me know if you need any more info,.

Thanks,
Richard

Hi Neddy (& welcome )

Nothing much for me to add, as RM & Mark seem to have answered your questions

quote:although then they'll have us twice, once for fuel, and once for eggs

But if you grow your own, you'll probably get one of those nice EU CAP subsidies

Cheers

Michael

Only 42 - but yes I know Nedddy Seagoon!! My Dad played me the tapes!!!!!! Hahahahaha!!!

One thing I forgot to mention - dont forget your FC membership - and for Mrs Seagoon too!!!!

Just a quick note on the fuel issue which migth make you laugh - apparently you can run a diesel engine on oilseed rape ( cooking oil) from the supermarket and it works out at around £2 a gallon or something - cf £4 a gallon - however - if you buy it for cooking (or anything else)you dont pay tax but if you stick it in your car you have to pay fuel duty at the going rate!!!

So even if cars could run on air - we woudl still be taxed!!! Breathable air - no tax - fuel air LOADS OF TAX!! Hahahahahah Doncah just love politicians and their legislation!!!

MarkJ The Upper Class bar is for Upper Class passengers only!!!!!

To protect the Upper Class product only passengers in this cabin can use it!

Imagine if you paid £3000 for a J ticket only to go and sit at the bar to find someone who has £500 drinking the Upper class product.

Imagine if we said if the Beauty Therapist is not busy then she will give Treatments to passengers in Economy!!!!

I would not encourage ANY passengers to embarass themselves by asking a member of the crew.

If you have ever flown in PE on the A343 and tried to use the Upper Class toilet you will see the crew simply redirect you the one in Y!!!!

Declan,

I have to say, that this is one of the things I do not like about PE.
For the high increase in cost over econ, a slightly bigger seat, a slightly smaller check in line and a glass of champagne is not a lot. There SHOULD be a form of clubhouse available, and a different menu as well.
There is a tendancy to class PE customers as econ pax with some cash :-0
I tend to look at Econ Vs BA econ, PE vs Club World
and Uc vs BA first and in that way PE is poor.

[Pete]

An easy conclusion to make, but in reality PE is more like a full-fare economy and Club World is business class - and they're priced as such.

Virgin could do with re-vamping the PE product (since so many other airlines have now copied their innovations in that area), and a hybrid Economy/Business would be a good step. PE is pretty much a bigger seat, faster check-in, priority baggage and a glass of bubbly, but at the same time it's an Economy product.

Pix

Pix,
I think the problem is that I still remember VS advertising the original PE (trhough as I recall, it was not called that) as an alternative to buisness class seats in other airlines.

But as more and more people are using PE, they do need to do something with the product. Maybe the current PE should be the standard for VS Economy??

[Pete]

Alan,

Fair point. When it was introduced, "Mid Class" was indeed more akin to a business class product - but that's more because business class back then was pretty p*ss poor. Obviously since those days, all carriers have been fiercely competing for J class passengers, and those benefits have grown exponentially in comparison to Economy (and I lump both W & Y in that category).

Personally I've been pretty vocal that VS need to take a look at the back of the bus now that they've clearly beaten the pants off everybody else's business class (and some First class). However, I'm also acutely aware of the thin line between profit and loss when it comes to adding extras at no extra cost. I figure if you want the cheapest possible price, you shouldn't expect the frills - so I'd be more than happy to pay a little extra for a few luxuries. I should add that I generally fly PE or Upper. I decided about 6 years ago that I was too old and life was too short to spend 10 hours in a metal tube with my knees under my chin (and I do pay for my own flights, so I feel I can make that call).

However, ignoring our own personal preferences for a second, Virgin need to look at the situation in a cold commercial light. If they introduce a better service (be it psychical like the seat pitch, or service such as lounges), that costs. For it to make sense that means they either have to increase their average seat revenue or attract more business. My understanding is that PE is actually a little too popular already, and sells out frequently. So I don't see much incentive for them to add extras unless they increase the size of the cabin or charge more.

Let's speculate there was a mid point in terms of cabin & service between PE & Upper. You can find PE fares for about £700, and Upper at around £2000. Would I be prepared to pay about £1350 for a hybrid PE/Upper ticket? Possibly. Would it make sense to try and create another new cabin category (in much the same way as VS have positioned Upper as a First/Business hybrid) - that's a tougher sell, but I wouldn't be surprised if that one of the things Virgin have or are considering.

Don't forget, there's more than a whispered rumour that Economy & PE will be getting a revamp at the end of this year, and whilst speculation is rife, no official information is yet available.

Pix

Completely concur with you Pix. But my one wish would be for PE on all aircraft to have their own toilet facilities.

Also, not to add fuel to the debate, but I have been fortunate enough to have a colleague travelling Y be allowed to come and have a drink with me at the bar when I was travelling in J. But, as with everything, I guess it's down to the discretion of the IFS and we were lucky!

Cheers

Buffers

[Pete]

Buffers - Yup, but that's a separate thing entirely! Consistency of product offering is spotty at best at the moment; and if the W & Y cabin does get an upgrade, plus the potential new features that are possible on a A380 opens up a whole new can of worms!

I've also invited W & Y passengers up for a drink in J when I've been a J passenger (with the co-operation of the IFS, of course!) - but for a lone W passenger, the request for a drink at the bar, even if it's quiet, is highly likely to be denied.

Pix

Pix,
Ah! Mid Class, that was it!

I think us frequent users are all of a same mind you know.
I pay for my own flights as well and nowadays refuse to be a sardine for any airline.
I have to say that if finances got tight, I would reluctantly have to look at somebody like American for Econ travel as I need (as many of you do at 6ft 1") space to move my legs.
Virgin have in some minds always been more expensive than other econ airlines prices, but they have filled their setas by being only one of two airlines flying directly to MCO and the goodies for children.
But they have also been vERY good at marketing PE as something special at a premium economy price and as you say there is a large market grown for bigger seats and better service and the other airlines have picked up on this.
Unless VS do something, these passengers will migrate to other airlines who offer a little bit more for a premium price.
As you say UC is set as some of the best options for the price, but I do worry that econ is stale and PE is not a lot for the difference in price with alternative airlines.

Hello ALL,
First, let me thank all of youwho replied to my questions, you certainly rallied to the call, and have given me much helpfuladvice.

Secondly, I didn't want to upset any UC passengers by even daring to think that we lowly unwashed masses would want to spend time in THEIR private area. Again I was merely asking a question as I have not flown in any other class but cattle car on any other airline.
Mrs Ned and I are not exactly frequent flyers, this is our first homeward bound trip in almost five years,it has taken us time to be able to afford PE, and after researching other carriers, we decided to give Virgin a try, I am an admirer of "THE BOSS, SRB" and feel I'd like to support his company with my hard earned pennies instead of those 'other ' lot.
I cannot comment on the ins and outs of PE vs Economy yet, but will post a report when we return. I can say though, sometimes we are limited in our choices, and have to do our best, as long as PE is value for money, which means value to me for my money, whether it be better seating, more movies or even if the glass of champagne is warm,I have to make my own mind up, but I am still looking forward to flying this airline.
Thanks again,

[by the way,regarding someone paying top whack against someone on a discount, it happens through all classes, via web discount booking, travel agent offers etc, it may be fun to actually see how many people in all classes paid the same price for a ticket.]

Neddy, Be a good laddie and get a picture of the PE seats. I will be on the same route in Ocy, and as an update i got this from airliners.net



VS 21/22
The current plan is for a 343 on Tue/Wed/Thu for the summer season but Mon/Fri/Sat/Sun will still be 346.

Incidentally the extra service VS55/56 starts today...it'll be a 343 op on Wed/Fri/Sun eta 2320 etd 0725 the following day.

Thanks in advance
Ron

[mitchja]

I do remember seeing a link to some pics of the new Wash seat on the A346 somewhere on here a while back.....

Regards

[mitchja]

here it is:

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=248394

Ron,

Ron,
I'll gladly try and get a piccy of PE, and set it on the forum.
I was a bit disappointed to see the update showing A340 as I'd previously sen A346 for our flight [ tuesday night] but no real matter of course.
I tried to see the picture from Jetphoto but it seems this string driven thing is acting up, Ill try later.

Secondly, thanks again to ALL on these forums, you have made me feel welcome, and more importantly, have been of great help to a Virgin Virgin, you allow people to ask questions and don't get give sarcastic or condescending answers [as other places do] I feel I can ask any thing and will get a real helpful reply. Thanks to all, moderators and members, I look forward to future "meetings"

OOPS,
I forgot to ask what are the differences between 343 and 346 aircraft, also anybody stayed at any of the hotels closest to LHR? we are thinking of the Holiday Inn just about opposite, but I am open to suggestions, we need to be within spitting distance really because of 11am flight out, so anticipating about 7am check-in.

Cheers M'dears

[buns]

Neddy

The outlaws stayed at the Holiday Inn Heathrow M4 Junction 4 and seemd to offer some nice touches like bathrobes on even the basic price.

Whilst a little out of the way this makes no real difference as all hotels around Heathrow have a PAY Shuttle (£3 per person I think) so you can choose to stay on the Bath Road (which overlooks the runway) or a little further afield as the price is the same - it is in fact a pick up service that starts around 5.30am and goes to various hotels before entering the airport.

hope this helps

Buns

Thanks Buns,info duly noted, though we won't need the bus aswe'll be returning the ol' hire jalopy on that morning...
Did you have any idea on the differences between the aircraft?
Thanks again

[Nottingham Nick]

Neddy

If you are looking for hotels close to LHR, then this site usually takes some beating

https://www.holidayextras.co.uk

It gives a choice of hotels with or without car parking at all major UK airports.

Nick

Neddy if you fancy something a little bit different, but surprisingly convenient, you could always stay in our home town, Windsor. Depending on the time of day it's a max of 25 mins to LHR and has some great hotels, pubs and restaurants, not to mention the castle!

I'd recommend the Christopher Wren House Hotel on the river next to the bridge connecting Windsor and Eton. A bit pricier than staying near the airport, but a lot nicer way to finish your trip.

Cheers

Buffers