V-Flyer

[Sorry If this has already been disscussed in another thread, ive looked but couldn't find anything.]

After the news today it was mainly about the high security alert on flights out of the UK. It did focus on Hand Luggage aswell and they said from now on Hand Luggage will be from now on have to be checked in. They said that now that the UK has done it over countries will probabily "adapt" the same idea.

Well this would mean the use of overhead lockers would no longer be needed on aircraft or they may be needed but not as for large baggage as usual. This could mean that aircraft could be made smaller in hight and more streamline?

and is this good news for Airbus as aparently it is still overwieght??

this would cut down queues into airside terminals as less items would be searched, this is also something that BAA has been trying to achieve; could this be their starting point?

Personally I do not think that the current "no hand luggage" regine will continue! There will be too much pressure to bring back certain items - like lap tops and hand bags!!

And on a flippant note - they will still need the overhead lockers to carry the duty free - BAA relies upon it!!

Absolutely agree with MarkJ. Certain items may remain prohibited or subject to additional screening, but already the DfT have said that these measures only exist while we continue have a "critical" threat level.

I doubt that industry, nor the airlines, nor the airport operators, nor their retail tenants - a major source of revenue, will be happy about this being in place for an extended period.

EDIT: It's reported that the Transport Secretary said something about "travel never being the same again" and that "the restrictions will remain in place" - but I'm sure he hasn't been beaten up by industry yet. That happens later, and I'd guess it's just bluster, which I've come to expect from politicians!

You'll probably find that all drinks and beverages airside will be in open containers to prevent them being taken to the aircraft, and other items bought in airside retail will have to have special tamper evident seals.

Cheers,
Mike

I agree 100% with Mark- there's no way these new measures will last. If business people had to start checking their laptops as luggage everytime they flew, their companies would pay a fortune replacing them (as I'd guess 75% would be destroyed in checked luggage), not to mention the lower productivity- it wouldn't be worth it for people to fly. We'd start taking better advantage of virtual conferencing and such, which the resulting decline of passengers would severely hurt the industry.

i wonder how much more the taxes will increase by.

[quote]This could mean that aircraft could be made smaller in hight and more streamline?[quote]

I think you'll find that aeroplanes are designed the shape they are for reasons of aerodynamics and inherent strength, flattening the structure makes them weaker and more difficult to build and therefore more expensive.

[quote]and is this good news for Airbus as aparently it is still overwieght??[quote]

What an odd statement and comment to bring in a pseudo Airbus v Boeing comment at this time.

and is this good news for Airbus as aparently it is still overwieght??

What an odd statement and comment to bring in a pseudo Airbus v Boeing comment at this time.

[:I]Oops sorry my mistake, i did mean the A380 Been Overwieght, Sorry My Mistake!!

This could mean that aircraft could be made smaller in hight and more streamline?

I think you'll find that aeroplanes are designed the shape they are for reasons of aerodynamics and inherent strength, flattening the structure makes them weaker and more difficult to build and therefore more expensive.

I see your point with the aerodynamics, but without the extra luggage bins it would mean less wieght, however after reading comments i forgot to add that Duty Free Baggage would also be onboard.

I was chatting to Dean earlier about how long I expect this to go on. A few days, a week maybe. And then the threat level will reduce and pressure from companies will increase because of significant lost revenue.

One of the outcomes I wouldn't be surprised to see is a banning of liquid products on aircraft that haven't been purchased in Duty Free. To show it came from DF I would imagine they'll use the sealable clear carrier bags they use in US airports. If its sealed its probably ok to go on the plane.

Are they going to change the security regs for the x-ray of more things - will foot wear and everything else be mandatory?

Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
3. That latter bit may be tough to pull off -- so I wouldn't call myself crazy(er) for suggesting that Boots, wine merchants, Space:NK and other purveyors of liquids, gels, unguents and other bottled/tubed product in the airports will be pushed out or asked to drastically alter their product mix.

Okay, thinking about this particular challenge, and assuming the blanket ban doesn't remain in force...

There would be a list of controlled items you can't take from the outside world across to airside on your person or in carry on luggage. If we're working on the current list, it would be liquids, gels, etc. So mostly bottled/canned drinks, baby milk and food, cosmetics, moisturisers, hairstyling products, toothpaste, etc.

All controlled items, regardless of their opened or unopened state are surrendered at the security comb, or have to be checked in.

Then, for things to be sold in a retail outlet airside, everything that would be normally refused (i.e. a bottle of water) will be checked before going airside (I believe deliveries to airside outlets are already subject to screening), but will then be security sealed by the airport authority, with some sort of tamper evident and unique identifiable seal, before being put on sale to airside customers.

The retailer will be required provide transparent carrier bags, and seal the top of the bag if it contains a controlled item - I've seen this done with duty free, for example, and the seals must remain unbroken at the point of boarding - i.e. any controlled item must have been purchased airside, and remain it's carrier bag, and be visibly carried when joining the aircraft.

(I know in the States, even in airports where you have a dedicated International terminal where they let you take your Duty Free when you buy it - they still seal the top of the carrier bag, and someone is checking that your bag is still sealed when you board. This seems to work.)

For things such as inflight "essentials" which are on the controlled list - such as bottled water, airside retailers should be required to adopt a "High Street pricing policy" - i.e. they aren't allowed to gouge the passenger by charging a higher price airside.

Alternatively, or in addition, all airlines should be required to provide complimentary bottled water to all passengers, should they want it. The likes of Ryanair, and others which currently don't provide complimentary drinks, could sell advertising space on the bottle in order to cover the cost - they are very good at this in other areas of their business - like adverts on the seatbacks, on the overhead bins, or even whole aircraft.

Airside catering outlets either serve in open containers (glasses or cups) - which can't be taken to the aircraft, or security sealed bottles, if they intend for things to be taken away.

That should control what sort of items can be brought through, without damaging airside retail, thus allowing people to buy inflight essentials or gifts from the controlled list once they are airside.

Crazy, or workable?

Cheers,
Mike

Fozzyo

Agree with your comments, some semblence of normality will return and I should think that the whole machinery of airport retail will not grind to a halt. But any liquids to enter through security will be binned - which seems like a good idea to me. But can we be sure that boots/WDF/BBR are guaranteed to sell non-explosive liquids? If only life were so simple and easy ...

Yours in sadness

So, umm... does this mean the Ameanity kits will need to have their toothbrushes/etc loaded back into them?

After all, I can no longer take my own... [:I]

Originally posted by preiffer
So, umm... does this mean the Ameanity kits will need to have their toothbrushes/etc loaded back into them?

After all, I can no longer take my own... [:I]

Well it should,but probably not.

Anyways im with the majority here,give it a couple of weeks and with any luck things will return to normal.

If not then this is starting to look like the way to cross the Atlantic...again.

Originally posted by MarkJ
Personally I do not think that the current "no hand luggage" regine will continue! There will be too much pressure to bring back certain items - like lap tops and hand bags!!And on a flippant note - they will still need the overhead lockers to carry the duty free - BAA relies upon it!!

I agree with Mark totally BAA, make so much money from duty free, What I think will happen they will start to do it like in the USA where you buy in the store and pick it up as you board the aircraft.

Originally posted by preiffer
So, umm... does this mean the Ameanity kits will need to have their toothbrushes/etc loaded back into them?

After all, I can no longer take my own... [:I]

And moisturiser, and face spray, and hand cream .... ooh it'll be like the old days!

In one way I think that the Duty free and airside shops may be rubbing there hands at the prospect of new regulations.

i.e. if we the travelling passengers are no longer able to bring items along with us as hand baggage and take them in the aircraft BUT that we are able to buy and carry items purchased in the airside shops - duty free or not - then there will be a requirement for shops to sell more day to day items rather than a lot of things that most of us dont want but which we seem to buy when we are at the airport.

It does seem on this occasion however that the US regulations appear to address the key requirment NOT to carry liquid or gel but still allow other hand baggage - and since the rest of the airline world is going to vary I can still see that UK flights will eventually fall back to the hand luggage regualtions we had beofre 10th August.

The debate as to "overkill" will run and run but for my money I would rather have the inconvenience and feel safe in the plane!!

TBH I am fine with it but I think I am going to struggle if I can't take a book.

Certain people depend on hand luggage. As a sometime photographer, I will not put my camera bag in the hold of a plane because of potential damage or loss. Even if I were to purchase a rigid flight case, I'd still be very concerned about Baggage Handler Service Charges... Same with a laptop.

There's another problem with the current situation for photographers. Back in the days when people used film - and a lot of pros, especially portrait photographers, do - you could take your film on board, and ask for it to be hand checked by security, as putting film through an X-Ray machine can 'fog' it and damamge it. As it stands, photographic film must be put into checked luggage, and it will be damamged as cases get x-rayed.

The removal of hand luggage, at least for now, will also limit motorsport teams. Apparently it's not uncommon for last minute parts or required spares to be brought over by a team member, with delicate carbon fibre parts needing to be taken as hand luggage to prevent damage. One rally team even had a full set of wheels brought over after a number of crashes, though I suspect they went in the hold...

Not to mention the impact on the novelty tea pot and glassware industries

Originally posted by Monkey
TBH I am fine with it but I think I am going to struggle if I can't take a book.

I am content with a few hours sleep and V-port inbetween. However, I am sure that others including my other half will struggle, she gets very bored, very quickly!!!! Missing a book will be a problem for her.

The fine art of people watching will become pastime for most. Y will be like a zoo with people staring at other people's mannerisms and habits!!! [:p]

Thats my take on the situation - It maybe miles off the money though! [:w]

I personally cannot see this being the end of carry on luggage, even liquids, i just think that more stringent security testing will be in place in the future (ie making you drink/taste before allowing to board, which they do spasmodically now anyways).I would not be happy to be made to put my laptop etc in the hold, as it could not be certain it would come out in working order.

I do feel that after all the "hype" for want of a better word has blown over things will go back to pretty much as they were, very similar to post 9/11. Yes security feels a bit tighter on US flights, and I know no sharp objects has been brought into place but I honestly do not feel it has in anyway affected my planning or the actual travelling.

Originally posted by Monkey
TBH I am fine with it but I think I am going to struggle if I can't take a book.

According to the MAN airport site, all shopping AFTER security is as normal. The only things not being allowed on US flights as hand baggage are bottles/containers of liquid (of any variety). Therefore, by default, books, newspapers, magazines etc are AOK I guess

I am as sick as a parrot - Just bought a new pair of Bose Quiet 2 heapdphones for my long haul flights and it looks like I will not be able to every use them on board. Does anybody think this type of product will ever be able to be used again or have I just now bought a very expensive ipod pair of headphones for home use

I am sure as things calm down, most items will be allowed back on as carry on luggage, I think this is just a temporary restriction until they are more confident they have all the suspects.

Just a thought, will we be able to buy duty free on board, or have they stopped that as well? My partner is a smoker, will he be able to buy ciggies airside?

It has been interesting to read through the various thoughts in this thread[y].

As many know I work in the duty free business albeit at present not in the UK. However we are affected in Europe/ Rest of World, for all flights travelling to USA as Homeland security have issued direct instructions to airport retailers as to what is and what is not acceptable. Local mgmt in airport may enforce additional restrictions. At present Duty free items can still be sold to departing PAX however the bags must be see through and sealed. Delta for one are insisting that goods are brought to the a/c by the shop staff and the crew will distribute out to the relevant PAX. (Details of PAX seat & Flt have to be attached to the bag as well).
It's all confusing to say the least but I for one are confident that it will all return to normal shortly.

Just glad it was stopped before and horrendous terrorism acts took place.

Iain

(I believe deliveries to airside outlets are already subject to screening),

Yes They Are Scanned thourghly By Excel/DHL just off the airport site, then took into airside of the terminal.

Even though myself the ban on Hand Luggage wouldn't really bother me, as it would quicken up getting through to the terminal; i do know that it would effect some people that wouldn't want to check expensive items into the hold!

Is their anything the airport could do to re-assure passengers that their luggage is going to be safe? I do know that there was a baggage handler on here, maybe he knows more on the situation?[?]