V-Flyer

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6203636.stm[url][/url]


I hope the above link works!!

SRB making true his previous suggestion debated here then. Would be interesting to see if this does indeed catch on, certainly a worthwhile effort if it lowers emissions - and hopefully our fuel taxes!

Thanks,
Sarah

It's really good that SRB is trying to do his bit for the environment, however I wonder on the all the fuel he will be saving, if he will reduce his fuel surcharges to his passengers?

Also I understand that air travel is on the increase, however it only contributes to just over 5% of the emissions produced in the UK and they want to tax the passengers, shouldn't they be looking at household emissions which contribute to approx 20%?????[:?][:?]

i know that all of this would save fuel but wouldnt all of this cause delays. i dont think that other airlines would be happy if they are kept waiting. how fast can the tugs go?

I didn't actually think SRB was serious - I thought the suggestion was just for show when he talked about it a while ago.
I still don't see why everyone attacks the aviation industry though when there are far worse causes of emissions.

VS.

Sorry to double post, but if they are going to do it in LAX or SFO the Air Conditioning won't work until the engines are on, not going to be nice if all the airlines follow suit, especially in the summer!!! [xx(]

The Air Con and all on-board cabin power comes from the APU engine, so this would still need to be running.

Regards

Isn't a tow significantly slower than the average taxi speed of a 744?

Originally posted by preiffer
Isn't a tow significantly slower than the average taxi speed of a 744?

That's what I was thinking. Tugs definitely have slower speeds, so because VS is the only airline doing this I can see some significant problems.

Traditional tugs can tow aircraft at similar speeds to taxiing aircraft, but don't for safety reasons - the tow bar is the weak link in the chain.

Standard Tow Bar

However, the modern tugs do away with the tow bar and so are safer at higher speeds. If you've ever seen one of these do a pushback, let alone a straight forward tow, you'll know that they can certainly get some speed up!

High Speed Tug Mechanism
High Speed Tug

And they can even tow 747's

AF

This approach may be applicable at busier airports but at quiter places, there's not much point really as one may not even be taxiing for ten minutes.
However, I welcome any attempt at cutting emissions and when you end up taxiing to what feels like Uxbridge at LHR, this method will certainly help;)

VS.

I think it's very unlikely speaking to a ground-ops guy at LGW the other day he just laughed. They don't have enough tugs (how many times are you kept on stand waiting for a tug) and then what happens when you need to return to gate for that extra bag thing or something.

Good idea, but would probably cost a lot more to get a lot more tugs and drivers than a couple of tonnes I'm afriad.

Nice gesture, I can see some delays and inconveniences to pax in the short term and possibly some tow drivers starting to feel a bit powerful.

Personally I am of the opinion that nothing can stop global warming, its going to happen and its probably a natural phenominon rather than much to do with the human race, its happened quite a few times in the billions of years history of the planet long before we came along.

I get so very tired that political parties are using the theory in order to invent newer ways to raise taxes and government revenue, Amazed that the general public don't realise this and also dismayed that tax has now become a punishment or a fine for normal living, we are encouraged to be sucessfull and yet we should hang our heads in shame for driving, flying and keeping ourselves warm and be punished with TAX, non of the procedes going towards any solution for the very reason they were invented.

Refuse being an example, we are going to be charged ( fined ) for not reducing our household waste, fined for not sorting it in such a way that local government can sell it on, BUT no word or hint about charging manufacturers for exess packaging on goods.

Looking after the planet and a responsible attitude to it is fine and admirable, but just lately on a political level it is one big sham and an opportunity to fleece ordinary people of their cash.

Have you tried sit in an old aircraft, especially B737-300, with full load under 37 degree for 2 hours on the runway without the air-con on? I had, it was horrible! This is what some airlines did (or still doing) to save fuel.

I know most of the Virgin A/C are quite new (except some B747s and A343), but waiting on LHR runway (or any runway in Caribbean, Dubai or Far East) in the summer is definitely not fun.

When they push environmental issues to this extend, surely it is against Health and Safety regulation.

I fly on 16 Dec to PVG, will let you know what it feels when they tow the aircraft. Hope it's not a 2 hours journey on the ground.

Read the note by Rolf Leutwiler on 1 July 2006 on this forum http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/shanghai.htm
I lovely Shanghai Airlines, they are one of the best in China. But they are doing the same thing as other Chinese airlines do.

Unless VS' handlers are going to get some more supertugs (the ones which lift the nose wheel, rather than use a towbar), I see this being a drain on an already stretched tug pool, plus a recipe for wingtip collisions and snapped towbars.

Sounds like another barmy PR idea.

The best thing to do on the 744 fleet at airports with 20-30 minute plus taxi delays is to start two engines after pushback, and taxi on two engines, only starting the others when approaching the hold - i.e. ~5 mins before takeoff. The engines should only take a couple of minutes to stabilise.

A significant number of US carriers already do this as a standard operating procedure. They also shut down some engines once they vacate the runway.

Mike

Could you imagine the mania while in line for departure at LHR or JFK when a fault was detected and it had to be towed all the way back to gate plus all the other tugs pushing back to give a little extra room, would be hilarious. I don't think it's going to happen.

Yes, I can see this causing quite a few delays in the short run but I think its the way forward. Also, EGG, I certainly think that we should try and slow global warming as much as possible as it willl affect our lives in quite a big way.

VS.

Originally posted by VS045
Yes, I can see this causing quite a few delays in the short run but I think its the way forward. Also, EGG, I certainly think that we should try and slow global warming as much as possible as it willl affect our lives in quite a big way.

VS.

I truly respect your point of view, I still think the subject does not warrent the current tax jamboree its not a solution.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by VS045

Yes, I can see this causing quite a few delays in the short run but I think its the way forward. Also, EGG, I certainly think that we should try and slow global warming as much as possible as it willl affect our lives in quite a big way.

VS.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I truly respect your point of view, I still think the subject does not warrent the current tax jamboree its not a solution.

In the wise words of Sir Terry Wogan "but the BBC said so, so it must be true";) I do agree about the tax though EGG and unfounded accusations of an aviation led demise to the Earth[}:)]

VS.

Virgin have announced that they will tow their aircraft to the runways saving 2 tons of fuel per flight??

Do these planes really use 2 tons of fuel just to taxi 10 mins??

If yes, how much fuel do they use to fly to Florida ??


item below,
"By towing its Boeing 747-400 aircraft to take-off areas at London airports during December it said it could save up to two tonnes of fuel per flight.

Aircraft will be towed to Heathrow and Gatwick runways to cut fuel burning."

And with all that saved fuel VA can add some more routes[}:)]

I just have one question will they be using the new VW Touareg?[:o)]
LINK
mods please feel free to tidy the link[:I]

Edit by Dave: Cleaned up the link

I suppose the next fuel saver is a Virgin 747 towing a glider full of passengers to the USA.
[:?]

I just have one question will they be using the new VW Touareg?

At a ski resort I was at once, a VW Touareg was the ony car that wasn't able to move off the ice/snow - so much for its 4WD;)

VS.

The high speed tugs (the ones with no tow bar) are designed with this in mind & I believe Lufthansa originally intended to do much the same as VS are now.

There are downsides to this plan. Obviously a lot more tugs are required & they aren't cheap, also there can be issues/tech problems with the aircraft on start up. Currently one of the engineering staff are talking to the flight crew during engine start on the headset (that's the guy on the end of the orange curly cord that you'll have seen), under the new plan this will be one of the handling guys. I can imagine a few delays due to this.

One question i do have is about the balance of efficiency. Currently the aircraft taxi's out with four engines running at idle power & on completion of engine start the APU is shut down. The new way will involve just the APU with the tug taking all the strain of moving the aircraft. These are tugs have large diesel engines & don't have the same kind of exhaust particle filtration that is now a legal requirement at German airports. It would be interesting to see a true comparison.