V-Flyer

Hi All,

Maybe someone can help me with this,

I am just finalising my plans for our trip to Florida next Year.

I had decided on the hotel etc and was about to book through Virgin Holidays (frequent virgin!) while checking up on the prices today I noticed that VH have added a surcharge for "increase in air passenger duty" I could see this coming as everything is a surcharge now, but I am confused by the amount.

I was under the impression that APD was increased from 5 gbp to 10 GBP per trip. If this is the case then the increase in APD would be 20 gbp in total for myself and my wife. (4 single trips) The surcharge added is 40 gbp, this is double the increase and in fact the total cost of APD on our booking, this seems wrong to me. As surely the original amount was included in VH's brochure price.

This also got me thinking about the fuel surcharge, has anyone taken the time to work out the cost of fueling a 747-400 from the UK to the US? Are airlines really just charging us a surcharge for the extra or are they using it as an excuse to increase ticket revenue.

Neil.

The increase in APD for longhaul flights is from £20 to £40.

Quote from the Pre Budget Report:

"The Government will therefore
increase air passenger duty rates (APD) with effect from 1 February 2007. The intra-EU
economy rate will rise from £5 to £10 and the non-economy rate from £10 to £20. The
long-haul economy rate will rise from £20 to £40 and the non-economy rate from £40 to
£80."

Mark

Thanks Mark that clears it up, should have read more carefully.

Neil.

So can someone explain to me why the APD should be different depending on which class you fly [?] Surely we are all 'air passengers' regardless of where we sit in the aeroplane [:(!]

Originally posted by Treelo
So can someone explain to me why the APD should be different depending on which class you fly [?] Surely we are all 'air passengers' regardless of where we sit in the aeroplane [:(!]

If you can afford fly in Premium or Upper the Govenment assumes that you can afford to be taxed even more [:(!]

Originally posted by andrew.m.wright

Originally posted by Treelo
So can someone explain to me why the APD should be different depending on which class you fly [?] Surely we are all 'air passengers' regardless of where we sit in the aeroplane [:(!]

If you can afford fly in Premium or Upper the Govenment assumes that you can afford to be taxed even more [:(!]

That's what I thought. What a load of boll*&^%

Originally posted by andrew.m.wright

Originally posted by Treelo
So can someone explain to me why the APD should be different depending on which class you fly [?] Surely we are all 'air passengers' regardless of where we sit in the aeroplane [:(!]

If you can afford fly in Premium or Upper the Govenment assumes that you can afford to be taxed even more [:(!]

The only way round that is to fly aircraft as one-class configs (a la Concorde)

Regards

Originally posted by andrew.m.wright

Originally posted by Treelo
So can someone explain to me why the APD should be different depending on which class you fly [?] Surely we are all 'air passengers' regardless of where we sit in the aeroplane [:(!]

If you can afford fly in Premium or Upper the Govenment assumes that you can afford to be taxed even more [:(!]

It«s not that and not wanting to turn this into a political thread, but I am sick to death of theUK and it«s taxes, there comes a point where Joe public has to say enough, kind of like te poll taxes...anyhoot, as I said on another thred, it is getting to the point where some of the why fares are now less than the taxes and surcharges.

Originally posted by Treelo
So can someone explain to me why the APD should be different depending on which class you fly [?] Surely we are all 'air passengers' regardless of where we sit in the aeroplane [:(!]

That's easy Treelo. A certain Mr Brown is intent on stopping us from keeping any of the money we earn.[:(!]

Jet, I think you're saying no more (and maybe a lot less!) than many of us here feel. Maybe we should, after all, adopt some of the strategies of the French - I'm really not a strike-type person, and they do strike at the drop of a hat.

On the other hand, it DOES make their government take notice of them.

So - any suggestions, you fellow Brits who are totally p*****d off with being fleeced, not only on what you earn, but on your house, how you travel, what you buy and probably when you die?????

Give up flying on direct long-haul flights out of the UK?

I'm trying to get my head around this, and perhaps someone can better think it through than me:

but surely if we flew for example LHR-AMS-ICN on KLM with the LHR-AMS leg in Y and then AMS-ICN in J we would 1) not be taxed (by the UK at least) under the new rules for AMS-ICN and 2) we would only be taxed on LHR-AMS leg at the short haul Y rate.

If that could work in theory than I'm sure the UK based airlines would do our protesting to the government for us as passenger numbers dropped, and they are far more likely to be listened to than joe public.


And then how does it work if you book a flight originating outside of the UK and connecting through the UK. Has the extra tax, along with the continuing farce of carry on baggage just cost UK airlines dearly in the transit market?

Sounds to me that fairly administering the tax is going to be a nightmare too.... But that has always been Gordon Browns method... make the taxes so confusing that most of us don't try to understand them and just pay up/fail to claim credits without question.

It beats me, the poll tax was one of the (many) reasons I got out when I did and I stood to benefit from it ! There comes a point at which the economy will not be able to handle the amount of taxation being placed on it, right now with the economy doing fine it is ok, but any down turn and the burden could become a major problem, yes the schools, NHS etc need to be funded, but there is a fine line to be drawn.

The only thing I can say is do as I did, get out.

Originally posted by andrew.m.wright
If you can afford fly in Premium or Upper the Govenment assumes that you can afford to be taxed even more [:(!]

So does PE count as Economy or not, for the purposes of this tax? It is premium *Economy*, after all, and the double tax is for *non*-economy fares, ie classes that do not include the word 'economy'...

Originally posted by Treelo
So can someone explain to me why the APD should be different depending on which class you fly [?] Surely we are all 'air passengers' regardless of where we sit in the aeroplane [:(!]

If indeed, the motivation for this tax is environmental then UC air travellers are getting of lightly. Each Upper class seat could in theory be replaced by three economy seats thus the UC passenger has three times 'the carbon footprint' of the one economy passenger.

However I don't believe environment is Gordon Brown's motivation and so its a simply case of fleecing the fleecable as many other respondents have suggested.

Originally posted by drnoble

Originally posted by andrew.m.wright
If you can afford fly in Premium or Upper the Govenment assumes that you can afford to be taxed even more [:(!]

So does PE count as Economy or not, for the purposes of this tax? It is premium *Economy*, after all, and the double tax is for *non*-economy fares, ie classes that do not include the word 'economy'...

Premium Economy falls into the higher Tax bracket [:#]

Originally posted by jetwet1

Originally posted by andrew.m.wright

Originally posted by Treelo
So can someone explain to me why the APD should be different depending on which class you fly [?] Surely we are all 'air passengers' regardless of where we sit in the aeroplane [:(!]

If you can afford fly in Premium or Upper the Govenment assumes that you can afford to be taxed even more [:(!]

It«s not that and not wanting to turn this into a political thread, but I am sick to death of theUK and it«s taxes, there comes a point where Joe public has to say enough, kind of like te poll taxes...anyhoot, as I said on another thred, it is getting to the point where some of the why fares are now less than the taxes and surcharges.

I guess the answer is don't fly or have your say at the next General Election ... Right now that's a long way off

Originally posted by mitchja

Originally posted by andrew.m.wright

Originally posted by Treelo
So can someone explain to me why the APD should be different depending on which class you fly [?] Surely we are all 'air passengers' regardless of where we sit in the aeroplane [:(!]

If you can afford fly in Premium or Upper the Govenment assumes that you can afford to be taxed even more [:(!]

The only way round that is to fly aircraft as one-class configs (a la Concorde)

Regards

Or Maxjet???

Originally posted by jetwet1
It beats me, the poll tax was one of the (many) reasons I got out when I did and I stood to benefit from it ! There comes a point at which the economy will not be able to handle the amount of taxation being placed on it, right now with the economy doing fine it is ok, but any down turn and the burden could become a major problem, yes the schools, NHS etc need to be funded, but there is a fine line to be drawn.

The only thing I can say is do as I did, get out.

Can't argue with that. Unfortunately, many of us aren't able to leave the country easily.

And some don't want to (I don't include me in this number) - they'd just like shot of this oppression [:(]

Virgin Holidays will only have budgeted for the previous APD amount of £20 per Y ticket as their brochures have been out for months and the Chancellor only increased APD 2 weeks ago, therefore it's impossible to see how they can avoid passing on the additional charge.

I am not opposed to the taxes per se. But I am worried about UK competitiveness. If all countries levy these taxes then it is a level playing field. All countries must have unmarried mothers, wars etc to fund and make us (often J class passengers) pay a bit more will help. It won't help the planet but EU carbon trading will help that. But the for the guy who got out to the US are either of these US agenda issues yet? I doubt it. Let alone Chinese ones. How many new Chiese airports in the next 20 years? 43 is it?