V-Flyer

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6516827.stm

[:(][V][:(!]

Milliemoo







Title of thread changed by mod, now that pilot has been cleared....Nick

Drunk at 8.59am, that is bad.

... on which time-zone? Could have still been drunk from the night before - easily done.

Still, I agree, bad. [:0]

And there was me thinking that the VS45, which I was on, and which pushed back a little late, was the flight! But must have been earlier.

Shame on him ...

IF he was over the limit - then IMHO it is indefensible, but the report only says that he has been breathalysed, arrested and bailed to a later date.

He has been bailed to a date in May, rather than being charged and appearing at court in the next few days, so there MAY be more to this story than is being reported.

Nick

As Nick says there may well be more to this, BBC has just said the Pilot was arrested after a tip off from Security Staff. 9 millegrammes is quite a low limit but I thought all aircrew operated a "12 hours between bottle and throttle" rule or is that just in the RAF?

There was a case of an American Airlines pilot arrested at MAN for the same offence, eventually found not guilty. We need to be careful what is said on open forums before a plea/trial is made

The 12 hour rule applies to all pilots, Bazz. (Not really a "rule" so much as an "of thumb"...)

Pretty flakey rule, too:

The body removes 1 unit of alchohol per hour (on average).
A pint of lager, usually 2 units.
12 hours = 6 pints removed.

Anyone here had a night out with more than 6 pints? [:w]



Having said that, you KNOW you're a pilot, you KNOW you're not supposed to have ANY alcohol in you when flying, so you KNOW not to go out the night before and binge. (Or the morning of, of course, if that is the case here [:0])

Yeah, I know it is only a rule of thumb, and you are absolutely correct, if flying I would suggest no alcohol at all for at least 24 hours prior to be on the safe side.

The thing about the body dissipating the equivalent of one unit per hour is also only a guide, peoples systems work differently and there are other dependencies to such as state of health, medication, etc., etc. So please people, don't use this as a way of calculating whether it is safe for you to drive or not, common sense is probably a more accurate method.

Originally posted by preifferAnyone here had a night out with more than 6 pints?

Don't you mean anyone here had a night out with less than 6 pints?

So lets make a list.

This dude got arrested at Heathrow. Then there was drunk VS pilot in Washington

Any more I missed?

I wish to echo Nicks post about there being no immediate charge made and the pilot being realised on bail to appear at a later date.

This could be the result of a few different scenarios and as nick rightly says there may be more to this story.

A positive result on a portable intoxilyzer does not give a reading of the amount of alcohol in the breath. It is merely an indicator of alcohol present and either being under the limit or over the limit.

A fail could be produced at the roadside or Airside in this case and when the diagnostic reading is done on the stations intoxilyzer, two readings are taking on this machine normally a few minutes apart. The reading used as evidence is the lower of the two readings of the amount of alcohol present.The readings can lead to a number of different scenarios such as.
Due to time difference from portable reading and the evidential intoxilyzer the alcohol level could fall sufficiently enough to produce a reading under the prescribed level.
A second scenario is that the reading are so different that they are discounted as evidence and a blood test is then taken, The result of the blood test can take a week or two to get back and someone is bailed to appear at a later date.
Another scenario is the refusal to take the evidential breath test and again the blood test is done with the same principals applying.
Sometimes a persons reading is below the prescribed limit and a blood test is again performed to back calculate the amount of alcohol present at the time of the suspected offence occurring.

The important thing to remember is innocence is maintained until an offence is proven and clearly in this case the pilot is arrested on suspicion. It will be very interesting to see what happens in the next few weeks on this one.

Originally posted by preiffer



Having said that, you KNOW you're a pilot, you KNOW you're not supposed to have ANY alcohol in you when flying, so you KNOW not to go out the night before and binge. (Or the morning of, of course, if that is the case here [:0])

Maybe he was a nervous flyer [?][:0]

The transport & works act where defined alcohol limits are given was introduced to us on the rails around 1992 (Is it the same one for aviation?). The limits stated are - no booze in the EIGHT hours before beginning duty and not more than 7 units in the period up to 12 hours before. It makes no mention of more than twelve hours before which always kind of puzzled me.

Regards

John

John, you are right, it puzzles me too. If the average homo sapien can rid their body of one unit per hour, what is the point of stating 12 hours as a safe period? We all know someone (maybe even ourselves?) who may consume far more than this.

So if you have six or seven pints and then a few large measures of spirit, you will need more than 24 hours to rid the system of this, not a 12 hour window!


{Duplicate post deleted (ref John's post below)}

Are you seeing double Bazz???

He's had, to quote himself " six or seven pints and then a few large measures of spirit" [}:)]

Originally posted by honey lamb
He's had, to quote himself " six or seven pints and then a few large measures of spirit" [}:)]

Well even I'd be able to fly a jumbo jet after that - or at least in my mind

Pilot's who are friends of mine are pretty strict on this, no alcohol 24 hrs before a flight, as others have stated the one unit per hour is a guide, for some people it is quicker, other slower, why take the risk when your career is on the line.

Let's see if we can keep an eye on this while the case develops.

John what are the limits for train engineers ?

Originally posted by Bazz
John, you are right, it puzzles me too. If the average homo sapien can rid their body of one unit per hour, what is the point of stating 12 hours as a safe period? We all know someone (maybe even ourselves?) who may consume far more than this.

So if you have six or seven pints and then a few large measures of spirit, you will need more than 24 hours to rid the system of this, not a 12 hour window!

The kidneys liver and your lungs all play a part in the excretion or breakdown of the alcohol and normally as a rule of thumb the body can eliminate 350mls or one and a half units of alcohol in one hour so if you paced your drinking to the 350mls of a normal strength beer each 60minutes of drinking then your body would cope and theoretically one hour after your last drink you should be more or less clear of alcohol.

The twelve-hour window works like this


9;pm 1 pint
9; 10 1 pint
9; 35 1 pint
10; 10 1 pint
10; 20 1 pint
10; 45 1 pint
11;05 1 pint
11; 25 1 pint
11; 50 1 pint
12; 10 1 pint
12; 30 1 pint
12; 50 1 pint
1am home or A&E


So from start to finish 24 units have been drunk
From 9 pm to 1am roughly the body has processed 6 units

Then the 12 hours between 1am and start of work at 1pm a further 18 units have been absorbed and processed.

This is a rough guide to absorption and elimination however there are so many variable that it not an exact science but should give you an idea.

Cheers Jerseyboy

Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
IF he was over the limit - then IMHO it is indefensible, but the report only says that he has been breathalysed, arrested and bailed to a later date.

He has been bailed to a date in May, rather than being charged and appearing at court in the next few days, so there MAY be more to this story than is being reported.

Nick

Thank you Nottingham Nick - what a sensible response. I'm not going to say anymore for obvious reasons. [:w]

IIRC there are certain brands of sweets that can cause a false positive reading, fisherman's friends being one of them, again until all the evidence sees the light of day we have to stay neutral, though I am sitting here wondering why the police were called in the first place.

I saw this on the front of the Sun yesterday (at least they got the picture of the plane right, which they normally never do).

I think I was more shocked that is was the VS003, one can only presume (hope) that it was from the night before, still a worry though.

Nonetheless, lets see what the result of the investigation is.

Dean

Why would the polie not be called? If the security staff could smell booze on his breath then its the police who do the rest.

Originally posted by virgin is the best
Why would the polie not be called? If the security staff could smell booze on his breath then its the police who do the rest.

Thats kind of what I am saying, just trying to balance the scales of justice type thing..

For some reason I had it in my head that he blew a .009, which is very low and I was trying to figure out how the booze could of been smelt, however on re-reading the story I see that the reference to the .009 is the limit...sorry foggy brain at this early hour [:#]

From the news wires ... It's been announced this afternoon that he's been cleared.