V-Flyer

Not read it for myself yet, but apparently page 18 of the Daily Mail has an article about VS Cabin Crew & their ongoing pay negotiations. Looks like talks have come to an end & the crew are to vote on possible strike action for August Bank Holiday!!!!!!

Interesting that it has gone this far, they really aren't paid that well & as you know they're the people who can make the biggest difference to your flight!!!!!

Originally posted by Denzil
Not read it for myself yet, but apparently page 18 of the Daily Mail has an article about VS Cabin Crew & their ongoing pay negotiations. Looks like talks have come to an end & the crew are to vote on possible strike action for August Bank Holiday!!!!!!

Interesting that it has gone this far, they really aren't paid that well & as you know they're the people who can make the biggest difference to your flight!!!!!

LINK

It is buried at the end of the piece on BA luggage problems over the weekend


buns

Isn't this statement a little contradictory/hypocritical?

Amicus national officer Bryan Boyd said: "Virgin face the prospect of industrial action over the August bank Holiday weekend. They are failing to recognise the professionalism and loyalty of their cabin crew."

Not sure how I can associate "industrial action" with "professionalism and loyalty" [?]

Isn't it about time for the Annual BA Strike threat as well...long live the British traditions...tea...jam...fish and chips...summer industrial actions

""Not sure how I can associate "industrial action" with "professionalism and loyalty". Easy really the "professionalism" is doing t through what can be difficult conditions.

I was going to add "having to pamper gold card holders who think they own the airline", but thought it might offend!!!!!!

Well as long as it isn't for the 23rd of August...

Hopefully the CC and management will be able to sort it out - I guess the costs of a potential strike would have to weighed up against the extra pay.

45.

Originally posted by Denzil
VS have recently announced an order for B787's & spent millions building a new training centre (there's plenty more expenditure you can list), so to just offer your front line staff 2% is insulting.

Hmm. Given that my company have also just issued an average 2% pay rise this year, I don't feel entirely "in tune" with the woes of Virgin employees right now.

High performers get more, low performers less - the standard, however, is around 2%. [:?]

Likewise, company investment is high, and workers understand that it is needed to keep growing. I (and many others) also understand the basic economics behind our decisions: Capital investment is [y] for shareholders; revenue expenditure is [n].
While every company would love to offer the best salaries in their industry, the reality of shareholder interest hits us all. I'm pretty certain none of my guys are about to go on strike though...


While I have an element of empathy for the trials and tribulations of a member of cabin crew (I'm certain it can be a real drain at times), life (and career) IS about choices.


Oh, and...

Originally posted by Denzil
I was going to add "having to pamper gold card holders who think they own the airline", but thought it might offend!!!!!!

I would say not so much "own" the airline, but certainly "invest" in it every now and then and want it to succeed. Along with ALL other passengers (and members of this site).

Might be worth remembering that from time to time, Denzil.

It's the same story with many many UK companies these days (mine included). No expense spared when it comes to investing in plant/equipment/production etc. No upper limits for capex but zero investment when it comes to people/staff. It's the staff that are the driving force of all companies.

Regards

Originally posted by mitchja
It's the same story with many many UK companies these days (mine included). No expense spared when it comes to investing in plant/equipment/production etc. No upper limits for capex but zero investment when it comes to people/staff. It's the staff that are the driving force of all companies.

Regards

Public servants are not immune either.

It looks like 2% is to being benchmark for this year for many.

The signs of a slow down in the economy are starting to emerge in a number of sectors, whilst I am going to be unhappy about getting only 2%, I will accept it if I beleive it will save jobs.

I want to continue flying VS and show my support of both staff and airline, if 2% allows me to do it, then so be it

buns

VS will, i guess, bring a particular lady back in to sort things out if things aren't resolved soon!

Sorry I find the whole thing a bit vulgar to be honest.

I don't know the full circumstances of the payrises, but if its a 2% across the board then thats an issue because it drives the wrong behaviour in the staff. Why would crew go the extra mile if they are going to get the same payrise as a low performer. It should be a sliding scale from 0% to x%. Perform like a muppet, and you get nothing, perform averagely and you get average, and perform well and you get top whack. That is what any decent corporate does, performance related pay; why should I as a high performer subsidise a slacker.

The whole pay package thing is a moot point, it's a career choice really. There are pro's and con's to every career choice, and there are the associated salaries. Existing staff need to be savvy, as there are no shortage of people applying to be crew who are prepared to work the salary on offer in conjuction with the perks of being crew. The buzzword in all HR departments nowadays is 'positive attrition' which is where churn of staff is good, and when there is no shortage of supply then why would they bow down and offer above average payrises?

As for the professionalism, if I am brutually honest I personally think it has been somewhat lacking on the flights I have done of recent. Staff who should know better but basically couldn't care less. Interesting viewpoint and attitude towards the Gold Card customers - I don't think certain groups in VS would exactly agree with your stance towards them. VS strive to attract all customer, but in particualr loyal customers that are flying quite regularly in the premium cabins; it's a very lucrative customer base that any airline would fight over. A few years ago, one of the US carriers revealed that 30%+ of it's revenue came from it's Gold flyers. A demeanour like yours and some of the other 'senior' crew I have flown with recently will not help retain that customer set. Interesting that you think you are having to pamper - not at all, some of the recent crew (though not all) couldn't even be bothered to welcome us onboard and thank us for our continued custom; soemthing that BA staff manage without fail and I only have Blue status with them. Looking after all premium passengers is a duty of the staff, and making them feel valued. If you don't think these customers deserve this, maybe a change in employer is due, maybe one of the LCC's that have no concept of a loyal/regular/high yield customer.

I sat at the Heroes awards on Monday evening, and was in awe of some the staff that VS has. They really do know the definition of going the extra mile, and making the customer feel valued. As such they were duly rewarded. The person that I nominated won their category, and the overall winner I have encountered many times in my travels and I can absolutely understand why she was a truly deserving winner. I don't see any of them whining about pay and conditions.

The question, is what do you actually think is an acceptable payrise? 5%, 10%? And then remember the earlier concept of the sliding scale. If the union was offered a choice of 2% across the board, or a sliding scale of 0-5% (performance related pay) what is most likely to be voted for?

Thanks,
Richard

Looking after all premium passengers is a duty of the staff

The duty of the staff should be to look after ALL passengers. I think the point Denzil was trying to make was that all pax should be treated well, not just Au members. However, a bit of special treatment for FFs could be added in the mix as well; CC could at least address Flying Club members by name as well as an introduction from the FSM. That's not to say though that CC should not go out of their way to make an effort with all pax.

45.

Originally posted by VS045
The duty of the staff should be to look after ALL passengers. I think the point Denzil was trying to make was that all pax should be treated well, not just Au members.

Nah, Denzil seemed to be trolling, plain and simple. He thought better of it initially, but couldn't resist lobbing a firework into the debate.

I agree that all passengers are entitled to expect civil and attentive treatment onboard, as long as they behave appropriately (i.e. aren't lager-swilling yobs on a mission to try the crew's patience, as well as drink all the booze).

However, recognising and greeting your regular customers appropriately is very important, especially in today's era of all too de-personalised customer service (i.e. you're seldom dealing with the same person twice when doing business with the same organisation).

This is especially the case if your regulars form a high percentage of your recurring revenue, as Richard suggests might be the case.

As for the pay offer, if VS are losing good staff to competitors or other industries because all the Virgin perks in the world simply can't make up for not being able to make ends meet each month, then it's about time to reward those staff that you would rather not lose.

At my company, everyone recieves roughly the same basic pay rise each year, while job performance is recognised through bonus payments.

Mike

Originally posted by mike-smashing
However, recognising and greeting your regular customers appropriately is very important, especially in today's era of all too de-personalised customer service (i.e. you're seldom dealing with the same person twice when doing business with the same organisation).

This is especially the case if your regulars form a high percentage of your recurring revenue, as Richard suggests might be the case.

It makes a big difference. Though not a participant in the (literally) elevated world of business flying I can speak from the point of view of someone with a decision to make as to where to dine on expenses every night during the week (eating in the hotel is *not* an option). The two restaurants where the owners do the very simple thing of greeting us with a handshake and a "Good to see you again, thanks for coming back" get a visit once a week. Not because they give us better service than their other customers (as those customers would quite rightly feel aggrieved and b*gger off never to come back), just because of a small token of recognition.

Paul

Originally posted by pjh

Originally posted by mike-smashing
However, recognising and greeting your regular customers appropriately is very important, especially in today's era of all too de-personalised customer service (i.e. you're seldom dealing with the same person twice when doing business with the same organisation).

This is especially the case if your regulars form a high percentage of your recurring revenue, as Richard suggests might be the case.

It makes a big difference. Though not a participant in the (literally) elevated world of business flying I can speak from the point of view of someone with a decision to make as to where to dine on expenses every night during the week (eating in the hotel is *not* an option). The two restaurants where the owners do the very simple thing of greeting us with a handshake and a "Good to see you again, thanks for coming back" get a visit once a week. Not because they give us better service than their other customers (as those customers would quite rightly feel aggrieved and b*gger off never to come back), just because of a small token of recognition.

Paul

Exactly! And how much does it cost them to do this? Nothing.

Would it be inappropriate to ask what actual rates of pay VS CC actually get at the moment[?]

Originally posted by jerseyboy
Would it be inappropriate to ask what actual rates of pay VS CC actually get at the moment[?]

I think Denzil mentioned £10K p.a. basic for CC, which I don't think I'd even bother getting out of bed for, personally, unless I had no choice.

There are the travel and other benefits, though I bet they don't add up to that much.

Mike

Firstly, the comments about gold card holders was "tongue in cheek", although there are a few who do act as mentioned (i can recall a friend who we played a little trick on when i did work at VS. We got the gate staff to tell him his points upgrade to "J" had been changed back to "W" on his business trip to NRT!!! The teddy throwing & the subsequent tantram was unreal, followed by the don't you know how often i fly with VS!!!! We did laugh afterwards though!!).

Got to say that your suggestion of performance related pay would probably be well received (my current employer (another major airline) does the same). One downside (which has an effect on promotion now) is that many of the crew's have their appraisals written by boy/girlfriends & could distort true performance ratings.

As for salary's, not really fair to go into specifics. You did once hear of CSD's at BA earning 75k+, an FSM at VS would be hard pushed to make 32K!!!

Originally posted by Denzil
One downside (which has an effect on promotion now) is that many of the crew's have their appraisals written by boy/girlfriends & could distort true performance ratings.

I can see how that would have a big problem, and I'm surprised that is allowed to happen - and there's me thinking VS have a grown-up attitude to couples, in that bona-fide couples are allowed to bid to fly together.

Mike

There is much more to this who dispute than what meets the the public eye. This is not the site to be discussing things like this on. Somethings should be kept within the company. The above does not happen and if it did/does then it they would be found out.

Very good point, VITB - this is not exactly the type of subject to be airing like dirty laundry.

Originally posted by Denzil
One downside (which has an effect on promotion now) is that many of the crew's have their appraisals written by boy/girlfriends & could distort true performance ratings.

Despite giving the impression such as that of "an insider", you don't actually work for Virgin any more, do you Denzil? [ii]

Might be worth allowing your past colleagues to express their views as current workers when it comes to such matters (should they wish to, that is) rather than speaking for them.

Sadly VITB it does go on & you must be blind to miss it!!!!! As for spilling beans, who let slip to The Mail??

Hi guys..hate to crash the party..but I think we need to set some things straight. Please correct me if I am wrong.

So the £10k a year is basic

On top of that you have a per sector pay and a down route allowance

According to my source a junior FA should make in the area of £1500 take home a month...

Also of course you have the 7 free flights on the VS network.


Now please guys..I don't want to get into a little war over pay..but please if you are going to start throwing figures around..please make sure you include all the figures.

Fair to include sector pay, but down route allowance is exactly that & shouldn't be seen as extra pay!!