Hmmm, regardless of whether he thought the stewardess had, in the first place, been disrespectful with her comment about the swiftness of his drinking; going down the back of the aircraft to shout his displeasure was a real no-no. Disruption like that on an aircraft can lead to arrest - he should feel lucky he was only cut off from further alcohol. And yes, his language is pompous and arrogant, isn't it?
What an arse!!! Lucky he didn't get a few 'extras' added to his in-flight happy meal.
Thanks
Darren
Darren
And yes, his language is pompous and arrogant, isn't it?
Worst still he names the CC member's, very unproffesional[V][n]
But, if he was spoken to as he stated, you could feel a little sorry for him?[V][?]
There has been many discussions about service and CC members attitude recentley on this site, maybe VS should now address the situation.[?]
It just all sounds so stupid - a 30 minute delay meant he was hungry and thirsty and he uses WINE to slake his thirst not water? As ever it hinges on attitude and if he is anywhere near as pompous in person as he is in print then he may very well have come over as aggressive/unpleasant from first contact.
""to have respect for Nigerians on its Nigerian route" What does that actually mean? Am I the only who is getting the feeling that he wanted to say something much more offensive but the editor said no?
Thanks
Darren
Darren
all that is gone and the era of discourteous and shabby treatment of Nigerians is back.
Without delay Virgin Atlantic needs to teach its staff, especially the cabin crew, to have respect for Nigerians on its Nigerian route.
It does seem that he wants to make this a racially motivated issue, maybe VS should now ensure that this man is not allowed to:
1) Take another Virgin Flight[^]
2) Allow him to have any alcohol on board, if he does fly[y]
Looking at the last quote is it only Nigerians who travel on this route? Any passenger has a right to be treated with respect on that route (any route), regardless of race, sex or religion.[?]
IMHO, the man is BARKING and should not be allowed to publish his arrogant, biased, rantings?[V]
There should be an apology printed for publishing the crew members name?[?]
I think illustrates one area where the inexperience of some of the VS staff can show through.
I'm willing to venture that FA concerned probably said in jest and with cheeky a twinkle in her eye, and the author of that article just didn't get it.
While I don't support the journo's style, nor what appeared to be hus confrontational attitude, the fact that she seemed contrite when later confronted in the galley hints that she probably did mean it in jest.
However, that sort of humour is probably best saved for a Carry On film, maybe an MCO flight, or for a group of cheeky boys on a Stag Party to LAS, because, through no fault of their own, some cultures just don't get the British sense of humour.
Flying to so many destinations, and as a result carrying so many people from various different cultures means that VS needs to make sure it's crew are able to be sensitive to those cultures.
Remember it's transportation that people are buying, not the airborne episode of Little Britain that I've been unfortunate enough to experience on some VS flights.
Or, maybe the Conditions of Carriage should have some sort of disclaimer in the event that pax cannot understand the occasionally cringeworthy or downright childish behaviour from those who are "primarily there for your safety"?
Mike
I'm willing to venture that FA concerned probably said in jest and with cheeky a twinkle in her eye, and the author of that article just didn't get it.
While I don't support the journo's style, nor what appeared to be hus confrontational attitude, the fact that she seemed contrite when later confronted in the galley hints that she probably did mean it in jest.
However, that sort of humour is probably best saved for a Carry On film, maybe an MCO flight, or for a group of cheeky boys on a Stag Party to LAS, because, through no fault of their own, some cultures just don't get the British sense of humour.
Flying to so many destinations, and as a result carrying so many people from various different cultures means that VS needs to make sure it's crew are able to be sensitive to those cultures.
Remember it's transportation that people are buying, not the airborne episode of Little Britain that I've been unfortunate enough to experience on some VS flights.
Or, maybe the Conditions of Carriage should have some sort of disclaimer in the event that pax cannot understand the occasionally cringeworthy or downright childish behaviour from those who are "primarily there for your safety"?
Mike
Originally posted by mike-smashingI couldn't agree more!
Remember it's transportation that people are buying, not the airborne episode of Little Britain that I've been unfortunate enough to experience on some VS flights.
However, in this case we only hear the side of the passenger, and at first I sympathise with them. Though I'm sure his behaviour wasn't totally innocent as he writes...
I'm sure a brief apology about the tone by the crew member, and a glass of water would have dissolved the situation somewhat, if not entirely.
Mind you, every crew member I talk to says Lagos is their least enjoyable route, and I don't think it's completely due to the allowance and hotel they receive.
Here's the thing, if the account we are reading is 100% accurate, both parties need to have their heads knocked together.
Assuming the FA did say what is claimed she is way out of line.
Of course going to the galley and getting into a shouting match just isn't going to fly either.
In the end, a stupid situation that could of been avoided.
After all...who has ever seen the FA's after the meal service ?
Ok so I know that on my next flight I am going to hear about that comment....but...[:w]
Assuming the FA did say what is claimed she is way out of line.
Of course going to the galley and getting into a shouting match just isn't going to fly either.
In the end, a stupid situation that could of been avoided.
After all...who has ever seen the FA's after the meal service ?
Ok so I know that on my next flight I am going to hear about that comment....but...[:w]
Why is it, do you think, that the author played the race card so early on. From what he wrote I saw no racial discrimination or prejudice at all and assuming what he has written is factually correct, he probably just got a flippant response from cabin crew who can be known to let their customer service slip if you ask the wrong question of the wrong person at the wrong time.
I have been treated a lot worse on a flight (or two) by cabin crew. Now who do I wrote to about prejedice and discrimination as a 30 something white English man?
Paul
I have been treated a lot worse on a flight (or two) by cabin crew. Now who do I wrote to about prejedice and discrimination as a 30 something white English man?
Paul
Originally posted by p17blo
Why is it, do you think, that the author played the race card so early on.
Paul
Most likely because that was the only way for him to make a mountain out of a mole hill. He moved from "the F/A was rude when giving me another drink" to "the F/A was rude to me because I'm Nigerian". Now he makes it seem more serious than it really is.
I don't normally post on here outside of the Trip Reports. However, I do feel compelled to reply to this topic.
I am a regular VS flyer to Lagos. In addition, I have in the past had the pleasure of meeting the journalist who wrote that piece. Some of you may therefore consider me biased towards the man but I assure you that this is not the case. There are 2 key points that I need to make.
Firstly, I personally have always found the VS service to Lagos to be below standard compared to other routes and I have flown VS to JFK, ORD and DB previously. I have also experienced all 3 classes of travel on VS. I remember that in one of my Trip Reports to Lagos I wrote that I thought the attitude of the crew came from the fact that they 'hated' being assigned to the Lagos route. I still stand by this contention. Perhaps some VS crew feel that due to the standard of customer service provided in Nigeria (which is usually low in my experience) that Nigerians will accept such standards from an international carrier such as Virgin. I agree that Nigerians can sometimes be difficult passengers, (particularly when it comes to the amount of luggage they wish to carry on board) but I also personally feel that the VS crew can sometimes be patronising towards them.
Secondly, someone mentioned a clash of cultures and this is definitely true. Nigerian culture puts a big emphasis on respect for elders. I think that this gentleman may have been offended by such a statement from someone young enough to be his daughter. Whether she said it in jest or not is irrelevant as the man took offence at it. Rather than 'ordering' the man to drink slower it may have been better to say 'well sir we normally only provide passengers with one glass of wine but I'll give you one more' .
One thing that springs to my mind is those HSBC adverts about understanding cultures. If VS crew had greater understanding of the cultures then they would be wary of making comments that may be offensive to passengers. To be fair to VS they have got some Nigerian crew on the Lagos route so they must have forseen this clash of cultures.
Finally I have to agree with you on the issue of naming and shaming. I don't agree with the gentleman doing that. However, I can only assume that when he wrote that column he must have still been teeming with anger from what had happened as I have always found him to be a very humble and courteous and professional guy (indeed the date of the column seems to be only a few days after his flight). I feel that if this issue was put to him now he would probably have some regrets over the naming. If I bump into him in the near future I'll ask him to come on here and take a look at the comments and maybe put his view across.
I am a regular VS flyer to Lagos. In addition, I have in the past had the pleasure of meeting the journalist who wrote that piece. Some of you may therefore consider me biased towards the man but I assure you that this is not the case. There are 2 key points that I need to make.
Firstly, I personally have always found the VS service to Lagos to be below standard compared to other routes and I have flown VS to JFK, ORD and DB previously. I have also experienced all 3 classes of travel on VS. I remember that in one of my Trip Reports to Lagos I wrote that I thought the attitude of the crew came from the fact that they 'hated' being assigned to the Lagos route. I still stand by this contention. Perhaps some VS crew feel that due to the standard of customer service provided in Nigeria (which is usually low in my experience) that Nigerians will accept such standards from an international carrier such as Virgin. I agree that Nigerians can sometimes be difficult passengers, (particularly when it comes to the amount of luggage they wish to carry on board) but I also personally feel that the VS crew can sometimes be patronising towards them.
Secondly, someone mentioned a clash of cultures and this is definitely true. Nigerian culture puts a big emphasis on respect for elders. I think that this gentleman may have been offended by such a statement from someone young enough to be his daughter. Whether she said it in jest or not is irrelevant as the man took offence at it. Rather than 'ordering' the man to drink slower it may have been better to say 'well sir we normally only provide passengers with one glass of wine but I'll give you one more' .
One thing that springs to my mind is those HSBC adverts about understanding cultures. If VS crew had greater understanding of the cultures then they would be wary of making comments that may be offensive to passengers. To be fair to VS they have got some Nigerian crew on the Lagos route so they must have forseen this clash of cultures.
Finally I have to agree with you on the issue of naming and shaming. I don't agree with the gentleman doing that. However, I can only assume that when he wrote that column he must have still been teeming with anger from what had happened as I have always found him to be a very humble and courteous and professional guy (indeed the date of the column seems to be only a few days after his flight). I feel that if this issue was put to him now he would probably have some regrets over the naming. If I bump into him in the near future I'll ask him to come on here and take a look at the comments and maybe put his view across.
mpase makes some valid points. Two of my closest friends at University were Nigerian and I learnt a lot about their culture while i was studying with them, and it can be quite different to ours. Their families often appeared to be quite rude and confrontational, but part of working with different cultures is learning how to act and react with them.
As this incident happened back in Y, with crew i assume may not have been with VS for too long (working on the basis that CC and SCC tend to mainly operate Y), i would think its a case of the Nigerian chap acting as a lot of older Nigerian chaps do, and the younger CC member taking offence as i doubt they receive a lot of training on the various cultures they have to work with. I'm not excusing the guy's actions, i guess its a case of recognising that he didnt think he'd done anything wrong as per his culture.
Thanks,
Sarah
As this incident happened back in Y, with crew i assume may not have been with VS for too long (working on the basis that CC and SCC tend to mainly operate Y), i would think its a case of the Nigerian chap acting as a lot of older Nigerian chaps do, and the younger CC member taking offence as i doubt they receive a lot of training on the various cultures they have to work with. I'm not excusing the guy's actions, i guess its a case of recognising that he didnt think he'd done anything wrong as per his culture.
Thanks,
Sarah
In my opinion, both parties are at fault here.
While I'm sure if I had been in his position, I would have accepted her comment as the usual banter, the FA should have approached his request in a more culturally sensitive manner.
However, he should not have reacted in the way he did and simply let it go. In particular, I disagree with the way he has claimed racism as the cause of his treatment; we all know this is not the case.
45.
While I'm sure if I had been in his position, I would have accepted her comment as the usual banter, the FA should have approached his request in a more culturally sensitive manner.
However, he should not have reacted in the way he did and simply let it go. In particular, I disagree with the way he has claimed racism as the cause of his treatment; we all know this is not the case.
45.
Thanks for the input MPase. There are always two sides to a story, which is why using a public forum to name someone with no right of reply seems particularly inappropriate. The point made about age and respect is a very valid one that hadn't crossed my mind. Now prompted I remember that my Nigerian book keepers young children always addressed me as "Uncle" (eek I'm an older person) and that as one "Culture and etiquette" site observes
"On the one hand Nigerians can be very indirect communicators. They will rely on non-verbal cues and gestures. On the other hand they can also be very direct and speak their minds without fear or upset. It is therefore a good idea to observe the situation carefully before determining what behaviour is appropriate."
Had forgotten this thread where several of the points contained herein are also mentioned.
Originally posted by Decker
Speaking of etiquette I wonder if crew on routes like Nigeria are trained not to use their left hands during service?
I believe they are. I have a copy of the Crew Culture training document somewhere in the garage. I'll dig it out and see what it has to say about Nigeria.
Thanks,
Richard
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