Crew drinking alcohol on duty!

Following what can only be described as a horrendous flight (crew service wise)on Friday a family member and friend both witnessed a crew member drinking alcohol prior to the plane landing.
Can any one tell me the rules regarding this and the effect it could have on passenger saftey in the event of an emergency.
They are considering a complaint on the general crew behavior, who should this be directed to, I am sure if it just goes to the bog standard complaints department it will never see the light of day again.
Is this normal practice.

The rules regarding alcohol consumption are the same for both the cabin & flight deck crew I believe. I am fairly certain that most UK airlines issue guidance that crew should only drink alcohol in moderation in the 24hrs before a flight & must not consume any alcohol in the last 8hrs prior to a flight. Obviously drinking alcohol when on duty is a definite no-no.

If you did indeed witness crew drinking alcohol, then it needs to be reported in as much detail as possible. You can complete a flight feedback form on the VS website (I have hed replies from these) but to be honest, you'd be better finding the name of the head of cabin service at VS and writing to them directly given the seriousness of what you witnessed.

Thanks I agree but how do I find out who that is and thier contact details?

[Darren Wheeler]

Firstly Mun, welcome to V-Flyer.

The consumption of alcohol by on-duty crew a no-no under individual airline rules. Although not illegal in itself, the 'Railways and Transport Safety Act 2003 - Aviation: Alcohol and Drugs' sets the limits so low that one drink can put you over the legal limit.

My advice is write a letter (not email) to the Virgin base at Crawley. I would also consider cc'ing it to the CAA for them to investigate.

While some might see that as an over-reation, your saftey in the hands of someone who may or may not be intoxicated is a very serious matter....

Just a question, how do you know it was alcohol? You need to be very careful with these sorts of assumptions. I had a passenger say to me once on a flight, 'I didn't know you were allowed to drink alcohol while on duty', I was simply drinking apple juice, he thought it was white wine! Just shows how easily mistakes can be made. Unless you saw the crew member in question pouring from the wine/spirit bottle and drink it straight away, it's very hard to prove, especially at this stage.

Because it was drunk directly from a Baileys shot bottle and when challenged the crew member repplies 'Do you want some'

I would really have to be sure of what I saw, before I entered a complaint.

A complaint so serious, made after the event allegedly took place, very will likely prove to be very difficult to confirm or disprove.

But could have severe consequences for those that have the allegation made against them.

I have a tale to tell, that makes me feel quite passionately about this subject.

I was working in our family restaurant, when some customers, saw me drinking wine. How they saw that, I will never know, as I am t-total, always have been I suppose I always will be.
Unfortunately that evening we did not provide an experience for our customers that we typically strive to provide.

The customers complained, some of their complaints were legitimate others were very bogus.

Unsatisfied that they did not recieve a discount, that perhaps they were angling for all along. They wrote a review in the local newspaper. Fortunately it did not affect us, as we had a very loyal customer base.

However one line from the review, could have potentially had an effect on our reputation '...to be greeted by the drunk duty manager, glass of wine in hand..'

Originally posted by mun
Because it was drunk directly from a Baileys shot bottle and when challenged the crew member repplies 'Do you want some'

The above was added whilst I was typing my reply.

If such an event occured, a complaint should have been made instantly.

When on a plane, there is a chain of management, ultimately ending up with the pilot. The pilots attention should have been brought to such behaviour.

Did you complain to the Flight Service Manager? If not why? A full investigation would have been carried out as soon as the plane had landed, Virgin would have been in no doubt then and the crew member would have been in trouble. Now that time has passed and nothing was said at the time, the crew member in question could say that the bottle was empty, washed out and full of a non alcoholic drink, milk for example. It would be a far fetched excuse but none the less, one that would be impossible at this stage to prove wrong. I'm sorry to say that it would be your word against his/hers.

[Nottingham Nick]

As others have said, I would assume that VS would take this very seriously. The thing I would say - to back up nevadakaz, is when you complain, be sure - give as much detail as possible. How long into the flight, exactly whereabouts in the plane - how far away you were, exactly what was seen. Most important do as much as possible to identify the person in question - it isn't fair on the rest of the crew if you are vague about which one it was.

Please keep us informed of what happens.

Nick

Nevadakaz
Are you suggesting that I have posted this to get a discount, I can assure that if this was the reason there were many other things seen on this flight that would acheive that including the stream of brown water than ran constantly out of the galley sink soaking all the carpets aroung the galley and seating areas which the crew were unable to identify a cause forand spent the entire flight mopping up with blankets and still served the meal service from there. The obnoxius crew that continuously berated each other and talked about each other very loudly in the crew area and the dressing down given in public to a crew member.
My concern is saftey and no one should object to this being investigated if it prevents an unsafe incident.

Originally posted by mun
Nevadakaz

My concern is saftey and no one should object to this being investigated if it prevents an unsafe incident.

I totally agree with you. By all means, complain, tell them everything that you were unhappy with because this is not acceptable by anyones standards. You had a bad flight in more ways than one and Virgin need to be told about it. As far as the crew member drinking alcohol is concerned, Virgin takes these accusations very seriously and it will be investigated. My only concern is that it has been left too late and it will be near impossible to prove even if true.

Actually this crew is still down line in a holiday destination until Wednesday, if Virgin get on with it they can investigate it with the whole crew together very easily.

Originally posted by mun
Actually this crew is still down line in a holiday destination until Wednesday, if Virgin get on with it they can investigate it with the whole crew together very easily.

Maybe so, but the only way to prove your story is to either have photo evidence, have another crew or passenger witness statement, even then and most importantly the authorities would have had to have checked the crew members blood/alcohol levels at the time, otherwise it is all just speculation, like I said, the bottle was cleaned out and filled with milk for a joke, how can you prove otherwise?

I am not in any way trying to belittle your story, but you have to be realistic as to the outcome of any formal complaint at this late stage. This complaint wil be taken very seriously but like I said, you should have made a complaint at the time.

As others have said, the best course of action would have been to speak to the FSM whilst onboard the aircraft. That said, if the service was really bad then you probably had a 'cannot be bothered' FSM who was holed up in the FSM office & his/her attitude had rubbed off on the crew, so they took liberties with the service. Irrespective of the FSM, drinking while on duty as cabin crew is against all the rules.

You clearly have access to a PC, so get in touch with VS tomorrow / do some Googling for names / fax numbers & get an initial complaint faxed to them. As Nottingham Nick has said, be as specific as possible in the complaint when it comes to the alcohol drinking crew member.

Sorry--you saw a crew member drinking directly from a Bailey's bottle who asked if you would like some? I find this extraordinary both as overt action (drinking on duty) and as any crew member dumb enough to drink out of a bottle in front of pax.

Could you share a bit more about the where and when?

RR

I dont think where and when are relevant to the issue, this happened ten minutes from landing on a long haul flight when the passengers were strapped in and the crew were in the galley with the curtains open!
I do not plan to disclose on this forum which flight though through my previous description any crew member on that flight will recognise it.
All the details have been forwarded to Virgin. Thank you to those people who PM me with email addresses

We don't have Baileys in shot bottles onboard virgin flights, haven't done for years. I guess the crew member concerned could have bought their own but we are subject to the liquid rule as well so find it all unlikely. Sorry I don't mean to sound like I don't believe you but something is not quite right with this claim. As an FSM myself I would much rather this be bought to my attention at the time rather than days after the event, certainly as previously said we could get the crew member concerned breath tested which would help.

If this is all true than I am horrified, in 12 years of working for virgin I have never witnessed drinking onboard an aircraft. I am thinking this flight must have been going to Antigua....???

[Bazz]

I am sure that you have done the correct thing in reporting this incident. It is inexcusable for a crew member to behave in this manner. Even if said individual did not actually take a swig from the bottle, pretending to do so is not acceptable behaviour.

Please keep us informed.

Whether you believe me or not is not important, the prime reason for posting on this forum was to find out what the rules are relating to this type of activity.
Quite frankly, after an 1hr and a half delay followed by an 8 1/2 hour flight all you want to do is get off the plane and discussing it with a FSM who was already ranting about his staff was not a top priority. It was only on discussing this observation with several family members was it considered totally inappropriate, and as such the matter is now in the hands of virgin management. Thank you for those who have posted useful comments.

i think your biggest mistake was putting such an allegation on this forum instead of dealing with it there and then , this is the wrong place you should have told the cabin service supervisor or fsm .

Originally posted by mun
Nevadakaz
Are you suggesting that I have posted this to get a discount, I can assure that if this was the reason there were many other things seen on this flight that would acheive that including the stream of brown water than ran constantly out of the galley sink soaking all the carpets aroung the galley and seating areas which the crew were unable to identify a cause forand spent the entire flight mopping up with blankets and still served the meal service from there. The obnoxius crew that continuously berated each other and talked about each other very loudly in the crew area and the dressing down given in public to a crew member.
My concern is saftey and no one should object to this being investigated if it prevents an unsafe incident.

I am in no way suggesting you posted to recieve a discount. As far as I am aware, discounts are not provided to people who post on V-Flyer regarding their Virgin Atlantic experience, whether it be good or bad.

You seem to have legitimate reason to complain to Virgin for matters that are easily verifiable eg the leaking water from the galley.

As my personal story hinted to, sometimes when things are not going as we would wish, we see things that perhaps trick our minds into thinking something else.

Further into the thread, somebody says that Virgin do not carry Baileys in shot bottles. Of course there are other ways this could have got on to the aircarft, but perhaps the bottle was not Baileys.

Irregards of what is in the bottle or what the bottle was, crew should not eat or drink in front of passengers, nor should they offer a passenger a 'swig' from the bottle they are drinking from.

A member of staff in any business, who would be so flippant as to offer a customer a 'swig' from the bottle they are drinking from, probably cares so little for their job that they would be capable of breaking health and safety laws, by drinking alcohol on duty.

GVIRG
I have stated why I put it here and why it wasnt dealt with at the time. I could have stated names, descriptions etc I have not. It is now in the hands of Virgin management. Thanks for your advice.

[Nottingham Nick]

I have to defend the OP here. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and we have all received lots of advice from the 'shudda squad'. [:D][;)]

The OP originally posted on the forum asking for advice on how to direct a complaint, and has only expanded on the details of the alleged offence on prompting from other posters.

At no time has any information been posted that in any way identifies the person who is subject of the complaint, so no one has been convicted in any kangaroo court - details are now in the hands of VS management so it is up to them how they deal with it.

It is easy to say that the complaint should have been made to a colleague of the person concerned before they disembarked, but it is also easy to see why someone would be reluctant to do this - especially if all they want to do is get off the plane, and begin their holiday.

As I have said in a previous post, mun - please keep us informed of any developments.

Nick

So we recognise that drinking whilst working is not permitted and definitely a no no in front of PAX.

I'm going to stereo type here. I regularly fly LHR - JFK/EWR. Each and EVERY time a few hours after landing I will see some of the gay crew members either in Therapy, Ritz or Splash socialising, unwinding and getting drunk.

It's what crew do - gay or straight, part of the fun of the job is the destinations, the drinking games, the random parties and I've sent some VA, BA, AA etc crew back in an awful state from parties I've thrown.

Do I think any less when I see them the next day or week on the VS26
or similar early departing flight? Do I worry about my safety because they may have a hangover or be slightly intoxicated? No!

I understand the point that the OP is making, however, don't think that the crew on your next flight, whatever the airline, were holed up in their hotel reading a book last night.

Seeing someone swig from a Baileys bottle is the lest of your worries if you knew that potentially your crew had 12 free-poured vodka and cokes last night (slight exaggeration)!