A wider malaise?

[Nottingham Nick]

Originally posted by JAT74L

While we all enjoy this site is seems rather too many folks are pissed off with our favourite airline.

I would prefer to think of it as 'concerned for' as opposed to 'pissed off with' [}:)]:D. It is like a student who has always got A grades suddenly getting Bs, Cs and - heaven forbid - a couple of Ds.

We know times are hard in the aviation industry, we know that fuel costs have rocketed, and we know that VS have spent a bloody fortune on UCS and the LHR Clubhouse. They are the big things, but as has been said many times in other threads - it is the little things that made Virgin stand out.

For the sake of spending a minute fraction of what the UCS cost, on things like Amenity Kits, food, cushions and other things that others dismiss as 'gimmicks', VS could once again start to excite their customers and make themselves stand out from the crowd.

In fact, just do it like they used to. [}:)]

Nick

RECENT REVIEW FROM ANOTHER SITE - NOT GOOD NEWS

- 30 July 2006
Post deleted by mod for copyright reasons....Nick

[HighFlyer]

Originally posted by porsche911
SORRY FOR SHOUTING BUT 1 HAND IN IN BANDAGE AT THE MOMENT!!!!SORRY

And that affects the caps lock key how exactly ... [:w]

Thanks,
Sarah

Originally posted by Nottingham Nick

For the sake of spending a minute fraction of what the UCS cost, on things like Amenity Kits, food, cushions and other things that others dismiss as 'gimmicks', VS could once again start to excite their customers and make themselves stand out from the crowd.

In fact, just do it like they used to. [}:)]

Nick

Or even raising the standard of the service - something that could then be truly consistent regardless of the airport or the aeroplane.

Paul

I feel slightly ambivalent about it all. I think I have to say that I still would choose VS as a preference, but it's also certainly true that I'm less evangelistic about them that I have been in the past. I'm not over the moon about the change to Amex, but then again, as BA also uses Amex, seems I'd be stuffed there as well.

I also feel there's been a degrading of service - I tend to travel PE, UC is usually beyond me, and in many ways it's not easy to analyse just how it's changed. But it just FEELS different, less special. Now - ok, maybe I shouldn't expect to feel special, but nonetheless, I did used to find it made me feel so.


Certainly, we've sort of shrugged our shoulders with the chasing airmiles thing, firstly when the reward amounts were upped and then again with the fact that Amex is less widely accepted.

Sad, but true. If this forum is only representative in a small way of how the travelling public is feeling, then VS shoudl certainly not be ignoring it. [:0]

Originally posted by HighFlyer

Originally posted by porsche911
SORRY FOR SHOUTING BUT 1 HAND IN IN BANDAGE AT THE MOMENT!!!!SORRY

And that affects the caps lock key how exactly ... [:w]

Thanks,
Sarah

Oh wow! I just had this amazing deja vu experience.[:?]

Originally posted by sailor99

Originally posted by HighFlyer

Originally posted by porsche911
SORRY FOR SHOUTING BUT 1 HAND IN IN BANDAGE AT THE MOMENT!!!!SORRY

And that affects the caps lock key how exactly ... [:w]

Thanks,
Sarah

Oh wow! I just had this amazing deja vu experience.[:?]

me too!!

me too!!

Blimey!! Modern computers eh? They are tricky litle beasts - all those goddamn buttons to press and unpress.

Im really good at typing with one hand anyway[}:)][}:)][}:)]

Sadly, I too can empathise with Vslf. Some time ago I posted about the deterioration of CC service both me and the present Mrs Treelo had noticed since we began flying VS (1992). Unless VS take notice of customers' comments (and I don't mean just by, eg, paying lip service and adding another choice to the lunch menu) then I can see many more loyal fans voting with their feet. However, what has really become noticeable recently - and I think EGG and some others touched on this in earlier posts - is the difference in the level of CC service offered between flights from Manchester and those from London airports.

The prices are the same, without the advantage of dedicated Clubhouses, so why isn't the service?

[Neil]

Originally posted by HighFlyer

Originally posted by porsche911
SORRY FOR SHOUTING BUT 1 HAND IN IN BANDAGE AT THE MOMENT!!!!SORRY

And that affects the caps lock key how exactly ... [:w]

Thanks,
Sarah

Lol - isn't is strange how soo many different people think exactly the same things (weirdly ive just typed this with one hand and no caps lock!)

Neil:)

Vslf[y]

A well balanced post and on reflection I too agree with many things that you have pointed out, especially Virgin wines who wrote to me saying "I used to be a good customer" but.....[V]
As for the Amex, totally useless for me in my present location so I will get only a fraction of the miles I used to receive. I think BA will get my credit card business now.

I still love to fly VS in UC and as I pay for it myself it is like a treat for myself and Mrs F, but it is worrying to see the cuts in service. AS a B&S customer mostly, the clubhouse at LHR and arrivals unfortuantely are not available to me although I do like the LGW CH.

Our next VS flight will not be until March 07 but I am still looking forward to it.

Iain

A few years ago when I first started flying with VS, I always felt that the CC were a bit too hurried - they've always had problems. Now I see a whole host of other problems but we're still flying them:D
I just hope that the loyal customers of VS are rewarded soon for sticking with them through scrooge packs, loss of flowers/cushions (always tough to get through [:p]) etc.

BTW, VS profit from Feb 05 to Feb 06 was £40million - twice that of the previous year. The airline is hardly cash-strapped compared to many and it would be nice if that success was passed back to the customers.

VS.

When VS was a nice 'niche' airline with 10-15 destinations, you can see how 'easy' it would be to ensure consistency, to have a quirky edge and to make sure standards were kept.

Now you have a much bigger operation. The edge gets, well, less edgy, the culture gets diluted and people don't quite know what they're "fighting for". The old David n Goliath dogfight with BA doesn't seem so real anymore. The folks from The Office don't fly with the frequency that they should.

It's all part of growing up sadly. VS aint no spring chicken anymore.

I hope they regain their 'youth' and passion. That's what really makes the Virgin difference.

It's all part of growing up sadly. VS aint no spring chicken anymore.

I hope they regain their 'youth' and passion. That's what really makes the Virgin difference.

Maybe a mid-life crisis is in order;)

VS.

This post comes quite conveniently after a conversation the boyfriend and I were having last night regarding next years holidays. Yes we've got the usual UC MCO one this Oct (we call this our cheapie holiday - that would make the bank manager cringe) then we're off sking - well he and his family are I'm not going anywhere near pieces of polished metal on frozen water- via SFO but apart from that we have no real plans. We will probably do a quick zip over to NY for the Xmas goodies you can't get in this country too.

We make gold again about halfway across the atlantic on the way out to MCO but we realised that that doesn't really bother us anymore as when we fly we fly J and the only use of gold is the 'chance' of being upgraded plus the % bonus points on flights - then most of our miles come from the VS credit card anyway.

All of the posts on here are right, they now seem just an airline, and so our summer jolly will be to wherever we want to go and whoever flies cheapest. Actually I'm quite keen on trying out the dark side to see what they're like especially next year on our MCO trip as on the shorter eastern coast flights I actually prefer two engines for longhaul as it gives you just that little bit extra snooze time.

I think mid-life crisis is right, it either needs to act it age and maturity and work on a solid base of products and consistency or go and get it's hair bleeched by some clothes that would make your granny gasp and start invigorating itself.

One last thing while I'm on this rant, if this is what is being said on this site then it should really be a worry for them as we (well I) originally joined as a fan and now we have large posters of this group and mods etc using other airline ???????

Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes

And if anyone needs a hardhat here, it's Frangipan for her post about staff- will be interested to see if Frangi gets balanced reaction to her balanced post?

I don't need a hardhat.

GJ

Think you need one now coz "Frangi" is a bloke called Mike!![:w]

Re: my nickname.

I hate marzipan, but for some odd reason I don't mind frangipan. God knows why I chose it as a username, but I guess it's appropriate here - showing how subtle differences can make the distinction between hating something and liking something

And now I realise it's supposed to end in an 'e'. Ah well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frangipane

Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes


Oh bloody hell. That's the problem with these boards, you can't turn the names over and look for the bits.

Oh but you can - one looks at the profile. In this case, I think the entry under gender was a bit of a giveaway as to the gender, if you see what I mean

Originally posted by frangipan
Re: my nickname.

I hate marzipan, but for some odd reason I don't mind frangipan. God knows why I chose it as a username, but I guess it's appropriate here - showing how subtle differences can make the distinction between hating something and liking something

And now I realise it's supposed to end in an 'e'. Ah well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frangipane

I have a very nice scent of Frangipane ....

All, thanks for the replies; it certainly looks as if IÕve touched on something. IÕm not surprised at the replies at all, I think a quick trawl through the last few weeks/months on this site shows that a lot of people feel the same way about VS.

Just to nudge the debate on a little, the trigger for my move is nicely summed up by Ade99 above Òthey now seem just an airlineÓ. I think I had felt that for a while, but being locked into the FC mile chase etc blinded me to this for a while. IÕm now not really chasing miles with anyone, just going for good deals when I see them, its quite liberating. Unfortunately those good deals (particularly in any of the premium cabins) never seem to be with VS.

I still have a soft spot for VS, they have had a huge impact on long haul from the UK. Their innovations across all cabins have forced the competition to up their game. As soon as this race starts though there is no finishing line, youÕve got to keep improving , any complacency will be punished by the market. My impression is that following the introduction of the suite and the completion of the new LHR clubhouse they feel they have done enough for a while. They have won some new business as people give it a try, however what will keep these people coming back is consistency of service on board, and that is where VS let themselves down time and time again. On board crew used to be a major plus for VS, a great crew can make up for a lot of other shortcomings - food etc, but a great seat/bed can't make up for a poor cre who spend the flight chattiing loudly in the galley. Maybe some improvements in CC training and/or remuneration and stricter quality checks are the answer?


What about the wider Virgin group? I know the credit cards and wines are outsourced, but they still have the Virgin brand on them and thus should reflect these values as much as any other part of the group. My experience is that there has been a general degradation of service quality across the brands over the last 18 months or so.

Any comments?

VSLF

PS the hard hat comment should have had a smiley, I know on this site that as long as you support your argument youÕll never get shot down, and if you do it will be done very politely.

Originally posted by Vslf

What about the wider Virgin group? I know the credit cards and wines are outsourced, but they still have the Virgin brand on them and thus should reflect these values as much as any other part of the group. My experience is that there has been a general degradation of service quality across the brands over the last 18 months or so.

As for wider Virgin group - I don't think some comments of the V-Festival have covered them in glory:

Festival fans condemn 'greedy' V

However, not sure what Virgin has in connection with V-Festival as such now, noting change of ownership of 'Virgin Mobile' brand.

VS Amex [n] - I'm getting used to the snotty way the card's given back to me in places that don't take Amex.... after the initial high miles earning period is up I think the value to me will be very questionable for the fee. Having to phone up every year to get companion awards applied to my account does not bode well for the new 'benefits' of the card, especially when my BA Amex has very clear detail on the statement indicating how much I need to spend to get the 2-4-1 voucher. The MBNA approach seems very sloppy in comparison - how are you supposed to know when you're getting near to / qualified for a reward?

Apologies for off-topic rant..

On lighter notes, I was reading the thread about Revivals and immediately had happy thoughts and I'm looking forward to visiting again in October, especially as this time I won't be rushing to work therafter so will have time to savour it. I'm pretty sure my flights before that will be very good, notably because I'm going from Heathrow and back from Newark. If I was based elsewhere I don't think I'd necessarily feel the same.....

Thanks,

David.

I am from England but have lived in CA for 12 years. Most of that time the obligatory trips home were on United, thats the airline DW had used and thats where we both started earning miles. Then in 2000 we used VS economy and the entertainment alone had me hooked. I remember laughing so hard watching the Harry Enfield movie (stupid I know - but I'm a guy [}:)] ). Then I started travelling a lot for work and got hooked by United (SFO being a hub it makes sense) but decided to splash out on UC for a 10th wedding anniversary trip to South Africa. From the limo, curbside check in, lounge, freedom menu, great seat, I was hooked. Now on my first few trips I had some bad seats in the old configuration pre suites, I had two flights in a row with inoperable IFE, fortunately on night flights in a great seat I was there to sleep anyway, I even had some not particularly good CC experiences.

I am most definitely now a brand champion planning all my long haul on VS for the next few years and already having used this forum to figure out Gold status (should be next May). The main reason for this decision is the contrast with my main domestic carrier United. On their flights I am guaranteed an old cradle seat, crappy food, worse wine, the worst IFE hands down and some of the most unpleasant CC it has been my misfortune to meet. There is one English guy often does the SFO run who is friendly, but I'm sure thats either a mistake or he will be reassigned.

For me the pluses for VS are the lounges, the food, the entertainment and the comfort of the suite. I have tried BA Club - not bad, but a little awkward getting out of the seat, and not that comfortable. SAA First - very good service, good food, not bad entertainment, really ordinary lounges, particularly at Heathrow. Lufthansa First - as a result of SAA going on strike and stranding me in Joburg. Upstairs on 747 flat bed but window has no direct access to aisle, food service took forever, wines ok, entertainment was the tape in the arm - not good.

So while I understand the pining for the golden days, what VS does in comparison to the US carriers makes them way better.

Again, someone says "even had some not particularly good CC experiences". A friend went to the States on UC about a week ago, and tells me that the CC were robotic and listless, and that one spent the whole time chatting to her friend about how she hadn't had any sleep the night before because she'd been partying, and so now could barely keep awake! This sounds not only horribly unprofessional, it sounds positively dangerous! I'd prefer an alert and awake crew in the event of an emergency.

As I said on my previous posting, the collapse in predictable CC quality is the biggest disappointment of all. It seems to be a bit of a taboo on this forum, where we all go on about how wonderful the CC are, but I think we have to bite the bullet and say that, in too many cases these days, the rotten apples are tainting the whole barrel. Why is this happening? Are VS treating its staff badly? Are they not paying well enough? Are they not recruiting good people? Has their training gone to pot? Are they no longer supervising? Are there no longer "mystery shoppers"? How on earth can this be happening on this of all airlines?

I have to agree somewhat with the OP. There are so many examples in my flights and posts of what I miss and how it could be better for me but I think VS were only one plane when I started and its hard to get back the stellar pioneering and young at heart /attitude staff that they had then - times have changed - the company is a big operation not the underdog anymore and you cant have every single person be like that. I think some of the Virgin DNA has dissipated especially on routes where the CC appear to be part timers going for a monthly shopping trip. Harsh perhaps but thats what you hear them discussing

I sadly think the old VS is gone. Not fogotten.

As I said on my previous posting, the collapse in predictable CC quality is the biggest disappointment of all. It seems to be a bit of a taboo on this forum, where we all go on about how wonderful the CC are, but I think we have to bite the bullet and say that, in too many cases these days, the rotten apples are tainting the whole barrel. Why is this happening? Are VS treating its staff badly? Are they not paying well enough? Are they not recruiting good people? Has their training gone to pot? Are they no longer supervising? Are there no longer "mystery shoppers"? How on earth can this be happening on this of all airlines?

Not sure that's the case, I've certainly posted about CC who have spent their flight gossing (or flossing as GJ might say) and other times when the CSM was non existent ... perhaps the language we use is not so blatent but hidden in it are express criticisms and compliments?

Given that, you are right, it's easier to criticise faceless beancounters than lipglossed CC.

Interesting topic.

Just wanted to say that I still have the pleasure of flying with some fantastic crew who make me still very proud to work for VS. Am sorry you have had bad experiences but there really are some great crew out there. I hope they become the majority not the minority.