The old leg-room debate!

I was reading over the weekend that First Choice are going to increase legroom on their UK - Florida charters to 33" from next summer. If the others (Britannia, Thomas Cook etc) follow suit does anyone have any views on how this could effect VS?

Last time I flew this route it was in Air 2000's upgraded service. I was really impressed and it only cost £400 rtn.

[Nottingham Nick]

Interesting thought. I would think that increasing leg room in ecomony by taking out a row or two of seats is a majot undertaking - especially on planes fitted with VPort.

I know a couple of people who have deserted VS in favour of AA, purely on the grounds of legroom.

VS are normally very quick to react to any innovations introduced by other airlines - we will watch with interest.

Nick

I'm sure that when First Choice put more legroom in economy, it will tempt Virgin to add more legroom. Afterall, First Choice are a charter company, so, Virgin, a scheduled, full service airline will definately be stuck, not to mention the fact that American has about 33" or 34", that will be two airlines. However, G-VHOT has come back from a refit (I think) today which will not have extra legroom, so the cost for Virgin putting extra legroom in economy will be very high, ontop of refurbishing Upper Class to UCS and Arcadia and Nova IFE systems into v:port. So Virgin (and maybe BA ect) will be stuck on what to do. If Britannia(Thomson) and My Travel, Monarch, Thomas Cook ect all consider putting this on their aircraft, along with their cheaper fares, Virgin and BA will try to think into it definately.

Let's wait and see!:D

Surely all they have to do is take a couple of rows out`and move` the seats?

[Nottingham Nick]

quote:Originally posted by AlanA
Surely all they have to do is take a couple of rows out`and move` the seats?

It depends how portable all of the under seat electronic IFE stuff is. IF that is fixed ot the floor, then it would be far more of a task.

Nick

I thought that, but what made me think was that a large part of the aircraft would have to have economy seats moved (all of the economy section) that would take quite alot of time, considering several aircraft have already been taken out of service for Upper Class Suite and a few have had v:port and the new 'Kash' and 'Wash' economy and premium seats (same legroom though!). v:port alone costs millions of pounds, along with Upper Class Suite, then, although we think that all it is is moving the seats, it's not as easy as that probably. Also, the next few aircraft that go in for the refits will get UCS, and, if they have Arcadia and Nova they will have v:port, and as Virgin have not planned (at least I don't think ;)) any extra legroom in economy, the econ seats wil remain. Well, they may 'move' the seats some time in the next couple of years, but it probably will not be too soon. Sorry for this long post, and I'm not making an argument!;):D

Also, v:port fitted planes (as stated above) may have a fixed IFE box underneath which will cost more money to move/replace and, when the seats are moved, they will be an obstruction, and, if they are poking out, even just slightly, may hinder an evacuation.

I have a screw driver, and am more than happy to help out


It would be bad marketing (if it becomes widely known) that a charter airline has more leg room in Y than VS (and BA for that matter).

time will tell......

Yes, whilst it will be hard for Virgin (and BA) to give more legroom, it will be bad marketing. Plus, the fact that AA has more legroom too. It's rather obvious, a charter airline has cheaper fares, but more legroom, more and more people will start to take the charter option to Florida. They will pay less, but will be slightly more comfy. I've also heard that First Choice will be having seat-back TV screens for the whole aircraft, and be the first UK charter airline to have the new 767 interior (as they were last year). I'm sure we all would want to fly VS, and loads more will too, but some (or lots) will want to keep the fare down, but if they are well entertained and comfortable in Economy, then many people will take the FCA (First Choice option)

This will not be good for Virgin or BA, they charge more, but have less legroom, and (when it comes to the Nova IFE) will have a similar entertainment system (depending on what FCA will do to theirs. When the aircraft are refurbished with v:port, they will have a much much superior IFE, but probably still less legroom. We'll just have to wait and see. Virgin will probably have something to do to attract customers despite a charter company having less fares. Virgin service might be a reason why the prices are higher than a charter;)

There are some good Charter airlines out there. Flew with Mytravel to Montego Bay to pick up cruise. There prem air gold (PE) ws just as good as VS priority check in & luggage Airbus with leather seats individual screens choice of ten main meals (pre-orderable) and great cabin crew. Downside two hour delay outbound and having seen Sandford on one of the airport type programmes wouldnt fancy the experience. Competition on legroom can only be good news though.

Paul

In the late 80s, we flew charter to Florida (stopping for fuel at Bangor Maine) in DC10s that were incredibly cramped. We switched to VS Y and this we found very much better. It all comes down to market forces; if VS can sell sufficient seat with relatively low Y seat pitch on the B&S routes then there will be no change. I suspect that the seat pitch will go to 33" at some time and perhaps this will be at the next scheduled upgrade for the Y cabins. When I did fly Y up to a few years ago, it was those darn IFE boxes under the seat that caused me to be uncomfortable.

cheers
GO

[HighFlyer]

Im all for extra legroom, thats part of the reason i try not fly Economy anymore, i simply find it uncomfortable and unpleasant.

However, i would go with a scheduled airline over charter any day. I went to Paris last month and paid extra to travel with Air France than a cheaper charter. Why? Because Scheduled Airlines have the service, the experience, the food and drinks, etc, etc. I have used a few charters that were deradful, including Monarch, Brittania and MyTravel. I just prefer the proffessional service of a scheduled airline, and when you travel a lot the difference is quite noticible.

If VA do not increase their legroom they may lose out on some of the holiday routes but i believe the regular and business traveller will stay.

We flew into Sanford a couple of years ago - and it was a breeze. We were through baggage and customs in 1/2 hour and was driving down the Interstate 20 mins after that. I cannot remember what MCO is like as it's been yeasr since I last used it.

On a similar vein, Thomas Cook are starting to fly charters to Canada with one of their 757s configures with 35" legroom. This will be an interesting one to watch - especially when VS introduce the new economy service (what ever this is!;)). I guess people will have the trade off between space and service.