LHR which terminal

OK well thought i would start this off on a proper thread!

So then LHR? Which terminal do we want VS in? Why? And who with?

Post answers below!

[buns]

For a start then, I pitch in my thoughts

Without sight of T5 it has to be T3 for me:

Of the original terminals it is about the best - given the circumstances

For those who might be transferring it has to give good flexibility with being in the central core of LHR

Currently has the better of the transport links (albeit a long walk)

WHEN the works are finished (are they ever[?]) it ought to be in good shape

Buns

from a pax point of view, T3 stinks - it is always over-crowded.

T4 is a newer, better teminal but would VS want to be seen to be taking BA 'seconds'?

Ultimately, I guess, the decision will probably rest on which terminal BAA decide to upgrade for 380s

for me, it has to be T4, terminal 3 needs extensive rebuilding:

larger waiting areas (with windows)
better designed shopping area
more windows in general (I wanna see a/c take off!)
travelators that work
less tacky shops (I'm leaving britain, I don't want british souveniers - nor do I want postcards shaped like princess diana)

However, Terminal 4 has many advantages for VS:

-Large no. of heavy gates (for an airline of VS' size)
-Modern designed terminal
-excellent connections with london
-hotel almost on site
-close to 27L/09R - runway in use for take off most of the time
-closer to the VS hangar
-more room for clubhouse
-garfunkels in departures

there are three disadvantages to T4 however:

- need to cross south rwy to get to north rwy
- no TGI fridays in departures
- McDonalds in departures

quote:Originally posted by PatDavies
T4 is a newer, better teminal ...

Correct me if I'm wrong but...

After T4 was finished in the mid 80's T3 was completely rebuilt (50% at a time) not withstanding the gates - for which updates have been piecemeal but the gates at the end of the 23-29(31?) pier that VA often uses are also newer than T4.

I worked in the T3 in the early 80's for Pan Am and the T is totally different now and work is still ongoing on the piers

By all means object to T3 because it is overcrowded or inconvenient but i dont think you can throw the "it's older' tag at it.

Phil

If i rember when i was walking to the gate in T3 there were some closed and had signs saying upgradeing gates for new A380 aircraft.

Cheers

Phil

In addition to T3 being completely rebuilt the Virgin desks in Zone A were added after the rebuild - in fact BA staff travel used to reside pretty much where I now check in for VA - I spent many an hour there waiting for a standby flight:) Ah memories.

Phil

P.s. I also remember a sign saying that the piers were being upgraded for the 380s - although I also remember something somewhere else on this subject too.

Hello

As I said in the other thread I think the main factor will be where we can park a large fleet of 346/380s. The stands we use on T3 had to be modified for the 346 so I imagine we'd have to give GAL a lot of notice if we wanted to change terminals.

The main problem with T3 is that it's always so bloody crowded [:(!] but once BA and their cohorts move into T5 perhaps everyone will be able to spread out a little (and leave space for some much needed improvements). The part where most VS flights currently depart from is actually quite pleasant; it's a pity that between there and check-in is a nightmare though!

I don't know whether we'll eventually see a Oneworld terminal and a Star terminal etc but I'm sure that's what the airlines would like. I wouldn't want to see VS in T4 as it's too remote and I understand BA have nightmares with the baggage belts over there.

Cheers
Alan

All LHR terminals are currently crowded. T4 may have a fair few stands for heavies, but yesterday morning my flight in was parked at a remote stand -- the last thing you need after 16 hours on a plane is to have to wait for a bus!

T3 arrivals is just plain nasty, despite the recent work to improve matters, and from what I recall the departures is horrid too (I usually have my eyes shut on the way to the lounge ).

T3 is almost *Alliance anyway, so perhaps with the non-* airlines moving out there may be a bit more room.

BC

Black cat- if as u say non *a airlines move out of T3 then that would include VS. remember we arent part of * although we might bloody well be- we have so many links with * carriers its crazy!

Blythy- you will have UK sovuenier shops which ever terminal you must remember that u have them all over the world for departign pax. If u think T3 is bad for that kind of stuff try Fiji!

Terminal 3 departures has been extensivly updated in the last 4 years- we now have that glass roof bit and they are always changing the shop layout, new security look with the frosted glass as u go through etc. So departure hall has been updated lots lately, also remember the new landside food hall above VS check in- so alot has been done with departures.

The problems with T3 are:
- Arrival hall is gross and overcrowded, the space between baggage belts is too small and the walkway route is often congested by Pax arriving in the luggage hall, leaving or complaining at the handling agent offices or going to the loo before customs! Arrivals landside is a mess as well- too dark and dingy and bloody confusing!

- Check in for all those not in zone a is a nightmere. Ever try checking in with a small LHR carrier who get stuck in a courner? Ever checked in with SQ and EK in the same zone, its a mess? They need to expand that area too!

- The walk to the new gates is way too far! It takes 20mins almost to walk to gate 40! Its awful! The moving walkways never work and the lounges at gates are too small, pax often overflowing!

-Dont even ge me started on the immigration hall, for foregin first timers in the UK its the first thing they see and its ugly. If u have just come off a long haul flight and ur meet by a moody immigration officer or jsut says 'NEXT' you will want to get back on ur plane and go home! T1 immigration is looking much nicer these days!

Terminal 3 is a horrid terminal. Terminal One is nice, airy, big windows, all white, not dingy and relaxing although as we have established all LHR terminals are overcrowded! Perhaps BA have it correct in t4- less carriers, less crowds, happier experience! who knows.

Well, Star have made no secret of the fact that they would like all the Alliance airlines, and key partners (such as VS) under one roof at Heathrow.

The airline world is slowly moving in this direction. For example, all Star airlines now use Terminal 2 (the Lufthansa terminal) at Munich. You can now change between different Star carriers in as little as 30 minutes.

T5 will house not only BA, but all the other Oneworld partners, and handle both International and domestic flights.

I do recall rumblings that Star would like to use an updated T3, and this makes a lot of sense.

T1, even with BA and chums relocated to T5, does not have the necessary widebody capacity to handle Star. The cul-de-sacs are too narrow as well, so it's not just a case of making some of the existing stands wider. You simply can't get enough 747s around that terminal!

T4 is not well suited to Star operations either. It's simply too small, even for BA. It's size was a compromise, if you recall. BA wanted a bigger terminal. Putting all the Star airlines into T4, in it's current config, would simply overwhelm it. We've already complained about how small T3 can feel with all the Star airlines there!

There's also been a comment about it being a pain - on the South side, which means lots of runway crossing moves. If they can be cut down, that can only be good. T4 would be more suited to the smaller users of Heathrow. Aeroflot, Syrian, Air India, Biman, BWIA, and others who only send one or two aircraft a day or week (and they are usually widebodies).

T3 really isn't all that bad. The departures area refurbishment has now been completed, to a very high standard. Attention is now turning to the piers and the arrivals section. I've noticed that a lot of the moving walkways have been replaced/repaired recently. There is also the project underway to segregate the inbound and outbound passenger streams, by building a second floor the pier which VS often use.

I know what people mean about the T3 immigration hall. It's dark, dingy, has a distinctly 80's feel about it, and the carpet is smelly and threadbare. When will BAA learn to stop using carpet in high traffic areas?

I think the eventual aim is to refurbish the arrivals and immigration at T3 to the same standards as T1, but it's taking some time to bear fruit.

I recently came through T2 and hardly recognised the baggage hall! It has been recently refloored and redecorated, all in bright, light colours (mostly white). It's amazing what a bit of redecoration can do. Likewise, where the carpet has been replaced with tiled flooring in T3 looks infinitely better.

However, T2 is less than ideal as an international terminal. It's quite space constrained, and to be honest, has only survived because of the clever use of space (like inserting mezzanine floors), etc.

It would probably work quite well as a domestic terminal - because there are less issues with passenger segregation, immigration, customs, etc. - so maybe a seriously remodelled T2 (re-branded as "T3 domestic"), connected to an expanded T3, could be a new home for BMI's domestic ops in a post T5 regime.

I think it wouldn't be that hard to fit all of the Star carriers (including SAA, when they join) into an expanded T3.

While VS may be a good fit for T4 in terms of their type ops, it will distance them from their existing partners at Heathrow, and make connections more hassle than they already are.

Cheers,
Mike

Yes i agree T3 will look super if it was like T1 with regards to immigration hall.

But what would you do about T3 check in- come on it is awful and needs some updating. The new zone a is super and VS are very lucky (at last BAA siding with VS not BA!) but if your anyother carrier at T3 you will not be happy. Just wonder down to SQ- its a mess....such is the crampt space that they have a perminant line system made from metal not ropes! How many times do you walk into T3 check in and there is a line lining up right by the revoloving doors for an airline in zone F and ur in zone A!!! I think in places in T3 they have put in way too many shops- even the new departures area is overcrowded---yes yes its ok for those who whizz thru to the clubhouse but the vast majority dont- you always see people sat on the floor as there gate hasnt been published and there are no seats!

So mike believes a stay in T3 is on the cards. I would perhaps agree with what he says (hadnt thought about the number of wide body gates at T1/2). If it was just bmi and VS at T1 it may work- change a couple of gates and give VS the europier! So who will get T4, Skyteama and the rest?

quote:Originally posted by willd
But what would you do about T3 check in- come on it is awful and needs some updating. The new zone a is super and VS are very lucky (at last BAA siding with VS not BA!) but if your anyother carrier at T3 you will not be happy.

United seem to do okay at T3 too. They are tucked down in Zone G at the opposite end from VS, but they seem to have plenty of space, and there's seldom a huge line - however, they to stagger their flights well throughout the day, which has to help keep the lines down. Also, their check-in process seems to be really quick compared to other airlines - usually 60/90 seconds max. It does mean you have to cut across some of the enormous lines to get there, but it's not that bad.

I think, if T3 became majority Star, it would ease the crowding you sometimes get, because in theory, you would have a better mix of long and short-haul, plus I think there would be a higher percentage of people eligible for lounge access in that terminal at any one time.

If T3 and T2 somehow merged together, an extension could be put in the space between T3 and T2. That could extend the check-in area significantly. I think it's currently being used as a staging area for all the pavement work going on at Heathrow as part of T5 and the A380 modifications.

Cheers,
Mike

quote:Originally posted by willd
The walk to the new gates is way too far! It takes 20mins almost to walk to gate 40! Its awful! The moving walkways never work and the lounges at gates are too small, pax often overflowing!

Gotta say that all the moving walkways up to the far gates were working perfectly this morning (ummm, well, Satdi 28th am!) - first time I've seen that area without the constant work in progress going on.....

Cheers

Michael

I supose the T3 check in experience all depends on which carrier u fly! EK,SQ,AA,TG,AC,CA always seem to have problems. CA have too few desks but there departure time to PEK is good as it means that they can use spare UA ones. SQ have just too many people arriving at the same time- SQ always overbook as i said earlier so if ur a frequent traveler on SQ to SIN and beyond u would be crazy not to arrive early, with 2 744's leaving only 3 hours apart and overbooked flights there space is too small! You also have to remember the sort of carriers who use T3, some have the tendency to carry rather rude and impatient pax im not going to name names but will leave it at that- these carriers also overbook so there is mayhem! Check in just needs to be spread open a bit thats all.

Will be interesting to see how long it takes before all carriers are doing short haul check in- ie: electornicly by urself at a computer, its so much easier. Bmi and BA have got it good so have carriers like Air NZ on domestic services. Wonder how long before VS put in a couple of these self check in banks (please dont say they have since i was last in zone a!)- would solve T3 check in lines!

Mcuth- glad to hear travelators are working now- they werent 2 weeks ago when going from gate 33 to arrivals!

Self service Check in kisoks are coming to T3 in the early autumn