Thanks for the update.
)
I'm REALLY trying not to be 'Mr Doom' here, but can we all please hold on a second?!? [:0]
NOTHING has been agreed.
The unions have received a proposal from VS, that THEY find more acceptable than previous ones. While I'm extremely keen to see that accepted (assuming it's fair for all involved), it HAS to go to a vote after all staff have reviewed it.
The ONLY thing that's happened so far is that the threat of strike has been postponed. Not cancelled. No pay deal has been accepted. It's STILL in negotiation.
Personally, I'm viewing the news as nothing more than 'watch this space, but we've bought some more time'.
Good luck to all involved - here's to a successful (final) outcome [y]
NOTHING has been agreed.
The unions have received a proposal from VS, that THEY find more acceptable than previous ones. While I'm extremely keen to see that accepted (assuming it's fair for all involved), it HAS to go to a vote after all staff have reviewed it.
The ONLY thing that's happened so far is that the threat of strike has been postponed. Not cancelled. No pay deal has been accepted. It's STILL in negotiation.
Personally, I'm viewing the news as nothing more than 'watch this space, but we've bought some more time'.
Good luck to all involved - here's to a successful (final) outcome [y]
Yes something has been agreed. The union are agreeing with Virgin that the new offer made is good for us (the crew).
I know the crew have not voted yes yet but as the union have been on our side this time then I think the offer will be accepted.
I know the crew have not voted yes yet but as the union have been on our side this time then I think the offer will be accepted.
I'm afraid to say NOTHING has been agreed between the company and the cabin crew. We have not even had the ballot papers or new agreement to vote on!
Yes 'according' to the staff web site Virgin and Unite have come up with a new deal.......However the Cabin crew could still vote NO!
We have all been getting lots of text from people 'in the know' who have suggested the conditions attached to the new deal are not that good, for example losing our annual Airshare payment and losing one crew member from the A340-600. (Which would have an effect on the service to our pax)
If this is true i'm not sure the company will get the vote they want.......We will all have to wait and see!!
Yes 'according' to the staff web site Virgin and Unite have come up with a new deal.......However the Cabin crew could still vote NO!
We have all been getting lots of text from people 'in the know' who have suggested the conditions attached to the new deal are not that good, for example losing our annual Airshare payment and losing one crew member from the A340-600. (Which would have an effect on the service to our pax)
If this is true i'm not sure the company will get the vote they want.......We will all have to wait and see!!
I eat my words I just seen the offer on the union website. Its rubbish.
I know what I am voting! Sorry Customers but it don't look good at the moment.
I know what I am voting! Sorry Customers but it don't look good at the moment.
Some people don't do themselves any favours on public fora..
re: potentially removing a junior from 346s
However the offer is succinctly described by another as
Comments courtesy CabinCrew.com
re: potentially removing a junior from 346s
Well if they do then they do. I won't be too bothered to be honest, we don't exactly have the hardest job in the world so work a little harder for the first two or three hours and then it's back to the same old sitting around, the occasional juice and water and a munch in the crew cart, hardly back breaking.
However the offer is succinctly described by another as
We will pay them no more (due to inflation the raise is effectively cancelled out) and we will work them harder (remove a crew member) plus take away any incentive to earn the company extra money (remove airshare).
Are they on drugs?
Comments courtesy CabinCrew.com
That is the type of person that gives cc a bad name. They also give VS the reason not to give us good stuff.
People like that should not be in the job.
People like that should not be in the job.
Please note..this is my personal view..so mod hat off..thrown out the window etc
This is the way I look at it...
From a pax point of view we are screwed.
Over the last few years VS has taken away a lot of the stuff we had come to enjoy in the air, do a search, the list is long.
Ok we got the LHR clubhouse...great..I am more worried about the 10 - 11 hrs in the air.
Now if I were cabin crew I would be looking for another job, I am sure that is going through the minds of many of the crew right now.
The old adage you get what you pay for rings true, the only thing VS has left going for it is the crew, the good ones will leave, the bad will stay...then guess what..we as pax are f***ed..and once we start leaving the airline is f***ed.
In SRB book he preaches about taking care of his staff, take care off them and they will take care off the customer....good to see he remembers what he preaches.
Anyways..I am behind you guys now, I figured VS would wake up after the first offer was rejected..guess they didn't [:#]
This is the way I look at it...
From a pax point of view we are screwed.
Over the last few years VS has taken away a lot of the stuff we had come to enjoy in the air, do a search, the list is long.
Ok we got the LHR clubhouse...great..I am more worried about the 10 - 11 hrs in the air.
Now if I were cabin crew I would be looking for another job, I am sure that is going through the minds of many of the crew right now.
The old adage you get what you pay for rings true, the only thing VS has left going for it is the crew, the good ones will leave, the bad will stay...then guess what..we as pax are f***ed..and once we start leaving the airline is f***ed.
In SRB book he preaches about taking care of his staff, take care off them and they will take care off the customer....good to see he remembers what he preaches.
Anyways..I am behind you guys now, I figured VS would wake up after the first offer was rejected..guess they didn't [:#]
Sorry to be controversial, but I don't actually see the loss of a member of crew on an A346 being that detrimental to the service. I'd rather have 10 good, attentive staff on board that understand the concept of service, than 15 that are more interested in what they are going to do down route.
Maybe the payrises shouldn't be consistent, Pay for Performance is the only way to get the right talent. We've discussed this before, 'positive attrition' is a good thing. Get rid of the layabouts that give crew bad reputations and piss customers off. Everyone has choice, if you don't want to work for X, then don't, go get a job somewhere else.
Don't get me wrong, there are some stellar crew in the VS ranks and I have had the pleasure of flying with them. There are then others that need to be shown the door, and directed to a LCC of their choice with a glowing reference.
Thanks,
Richard
Maybe the payrises shouldn't be consistent, Pay for Performance is the only way to get the right talent. We've discussed this before, 'positive attrition' is a good thing. Get rid of the layabouts that give crew bad reputations and piss customers off. Everyone has choice, if you don't want to work for X, then don't, go get a job somewhere else.
Don't get me wrong, there are some stellar crew in the VS ranks and I have had the pleasure of flying with them. There are then others that need to be shown the door, and directed to a LCC of their choice with a glowing reference.
Thanks,
Richard
Originally posted by Scrooge
In SRB book he preaches about taking care of his staff, take care off them and they will take care off the customer....good to see he remembers what he preaches.
Maybe this tenet has either fallen out of favour with SRB, or it's not sufficiently enshrined in the organisation such that while it may still be preached, it isn't practiced by the lieutenants running the job.
Mike
Richard: The problem I see down the road is that we will be stuck with 10 bad ones as the good ones leave chasing the money.
Mike: It is my understanding that SRB has very little to do with the airline now days leaving it to Steve to run, but in the end HE IS VS in the public eye.
Mike: It is my understanding that SRB has very little to do with the airline now days leaving it to Steve to run, but in the end HE IS VS in the public eye.
Well I have just had a look at the new pay deal and i'm afraid it's NO better than the last one!
*** Post edited by Mods to match publicly available information ***
Well I will be voting NO NO NO NO The same as the majority of other crew I have spoken to.
This info is available on the Unite website and is not company confidential
*** Post edited by Mods to match publicly available information ***
The 3 year deal ( 36 months) is as follows:
1. 1st. Year - 4.8%
2nd. Year - RPI.
3rd. Year - RPI.
2. Trip pay - 20% increase during the first 2 years of the deal. Trip pay will be pensionable from April 2009.
As part of the offer, there will be changes to standby duties, aimed at improving the efficiency of the operation. The offer also included review of crew compliments which should again improve efficiency.
Well I will be voting NO NO NO NO The same as the majority of other crew I have spoken to.
This info is available on the Unite website and is not company confidential
Not sure the full details should be posted in a public (google-able) forum, vscss. [:?]
While YOU may be happy to have your pay issues aired in public, there may well be many of your co-workers who are not. (Not to mention that these negotiations are meant to be private between the individuals, union representatives and Virgin Atlantic).
* Note - post above now edited.
While YOU may be happy to have your pay issues aired in public, there may well be many of your co-workers who are not. (Not to mention that these negotiations are meant to be private between the individuals, union representatives and Virgin Atlantic).
* Note - post above now edited.
Originally posted by preiffer
Not sure the full details should be posted in a public (google-able) forum, vscss. [:?]
I agree.
Perhaps you should simply 'edit' them?
There's a plane at JFK, to fly you back from far away
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
Originally posted by Denzil
& don't work for an airline.
Have you changed jobs then, or are you masquerading again?
I know plenty of government workers that don't get paid that great wages given the jobs they do. But again, like I said it's a career choice.
Originally posted by Denzil
Sorry AlanA but i don't agree, the basic pay has been very poor for a few years & although the % may sound high the money it equates to is low. And we should only be comparing like with like, local government workers are exactly that & don't work for an airline.
So if the basics are low and have been for many years, why are so many wanting to join Virgin? If it's that bad, surley supply and demand woyuld come in to play?
What exactly do you call low? When you say low,m does that also include the down route extra pay, the free parking at the home airports, the other little benefits such as Mates rates and 10% travel on other airlines?
Why should they not be assessed against other workers from outside the industry? or are you saying that Cabin crew deserve better pay rates than nurses or Police officers, or even the guys who empty your bins? [?]
I've been keeping quiet on this subject and just lurking, but time has come to put my view.....
Looking at the deal now show a few things leap out at me:
4.8% for the first year and RPI for years 2 & 3. Sounds pretty good to me. Rise to start and pegged to inflation afterward. That is a lot more than other got this year in both the public and private sector. I personally know some who were told 'if you don't like it, you know what you can do!'
20% increase in trip pay. 20% is 20% not a sum to be sniffed at. I also note it is pensionable from 2009. That is a valuable addition and will benefit staff in future.
Improvements to efficiency - Well welcome to the 21st century. Cutting staff by natural wastage has been happening in other industries for years. Think yourself lucky you don't work in a call center.
Whenever you apply for any job you must take into account the rewards package. At the top of that is your basic salary. If it's too low for you to live on, you look elsewhere. Looking back at threads started by people wanting to become CC, one thing stands out. That is the way it's described as 'being my dream job'. Dream jobs rarely pay huge wages in the service industry but if you want the job that badly, you accept it and live with it, end of story.
As has been mentioned, the issue of staff benefits is also a factor. From what I've seen on V-Flyer and heard, the perks are a big plus. If you look at the thread about crew not wanting the MCO routes, it seems that a lot of the overnight stays seem to involve partying and nightlife. Now I might be missing something here but if the wages are so low you can barely pay the mortgage, when away you save the money by staying in instead.
Just my 2 cents worth anyway.
Looking at the deal now show a few things leap out at me:
4.8% for the first year and RPI for years 2 & 3. Sounds pretty good to me. Rise to start and pegged to inflation afterward. That is a lot more than other got this year in both the public and private sector. I personally know some who were told 'if you don't like it, you know what you can do!'
20% increase in trip pay. 20% is 20% not a sum to be sniffed at. I also note it is pensionable from 2009. That is a valuable addition and will benefit staff in future.
Improvements to efficiency - Well welcome to the 21st century. Cutting staff by natural wastage has been happening in other industries for years. Think yourself lucky you don't work in a call center.
Whenever you apply for any job you must take into account the rewards package. At the top of that is your basic salary. If it's too low for you to live on, you look elsewhere. Looking back at threads started by people wanting to become CC, one thing stands out. That is the way it's described as 'being my dream job'. Dream jobs rarely pay huge wages in the service industry but if you want the job that badly, you accept it and live with it, end of story.
As has been mentioned, the issue of staff benefits is also a factor. From what I've seen on V-Flyer and heard, the perks are a big plus. If you look at the thread about crew not wanting the MCO routes, it seems that a lot of the overnight stays seem to involve partying and nightlife. Now I might be missing something here but if the wages are so low you can barely pay the mortgage, when away you save the money by staying in instead.
Just my 2 cents worth anyway.
Thanks
Darren
Darren
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