http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release.do?id=788080
Offer rejected by 60% - strike ballot within 2 weeks.
Offer rejected by 60% - strike ballot within 2 weeks.
If I remember this correctly, a union has to give 7 days notice to the employer of a strike ballot, so then the ballot papers get sent to the members (so, 2 weeks like the announcement says), then the results have to come back and action has to be carried out within 4 weeks of the result being received back from the members (sometimes in exceptional circumstances it can be extended to 8 weeks), this will take the proposed industrial action to the main Christmas/New Year (i.e. end December/early January) period if it happens, which will have a major impact on Virgin.
thats not good news does that mean they will have a strike within 2 weeks or just arrange the ballot within 2 weeks??
Originally posted by martin1974
thats not good news does that mean they will have a strike within 2 weeks or just arrange the ballot within 2 weeks??
It just means that they will be sending the ballot papers to the members within the next 2 weeks, as they first had to give 7 days notice to the employers of their intention to ballot members for industrial action. They then give a closing date for the ballot papers to be returned to the union, and industrial action will happen x amount of days from the date of the closing ballot.
that should be me alright then iamf lying on vs5 on 16th november so i should be ok phewwwwwww##! seriously i hope it all gets sorted out as tyhe only losers will be vs cos pax will just go elsewhere . this will be the first time i have flown vs i just hope it wont have to be the last
We are out on 1st December, right in the middle of the strike possibility time.
If this disrupts my one major holiday in a year Virgin and their militant idiotic Cabin crew can take their airline and shove it.
Sure my eight seats is a drop in the ocean, but I don't think I will be the only angry 'I pay your salary' passenger!
Lets see what 'pay rise' you get when you don't have a job! [V][V]
If this disrupts my one major holiday in a year Virgin and their militant idiotic Cabin crew can take their airline and shove it.
Sure my eight seats is a drop in the ocean, but I don't think I will be the only angry 'I pay your salary' passenger!
Lets see what 'pay rise' you get when you don't have a job! [V][V]
Alan I really don't think its 'idiotic' to fight for what you believe in. We are just asking for a liveable salary and as the company hasn't listened they now find themselves in a position where a large number of employees could go on strike.
Its been said many times before but they need to invest in people. When they spend 2 million pounds on a clubhouse staircase and then fly the spicegirls around the world for free but claim they can't afford to give staff a decent increase there is clearly massive problem.
We don't even get london weighting!!!
Its been said many times before but they need to invest in people. When they spend 2 million pounds on a clubhouse staircase and then fly the spicegirls around the world for free but claim they can't afford to give staff a decent increase there is clearly massive problem.
We don't even get london weighting!!!
We're not all militant crew you know! We just want to paid fairly for the job that we do. I'm sure you'd agree with that. I love the job I do and can't imagine doing anything else but there comes a point when being at the bottom of Virgin's priorities just won't do anymore. The company continually preach about investment to grow the airline, such as the Clubhouse, new aircraft orders and product refresh etc but one question I asked at the many meetings which have been held in the last few weeks was why don't Virgin invest in their Cabin Crew? Virgin know when they pay negotiations are coming around so why don't they budget for investment in their Cabin Crew? They budget for everything else except their loyal workforce! Needless to say I received no response to my question and the subject was changed!!
I'm not going to go into the rights and wrongs of cabin crew benefits, at the end of the day cabin crew feel they deserve more and are 'fighting' for what they believe they are worth.
However, I will say this (again), if the strike does happen it will cause damage to Virgin Atlantic - there is too much competition out there ready and waiting to take more ex Virgin passengers, this is the just 'excuse' the competition is waiting for.
What happens if passengers leave Virgin .... well, you have an airline with lots of empty planes and no passengers.
However, I will say this (again), if the strike does happen it will cause damage to Virgin Atlantic - there is too much competition out there ready and waiting to take more ex Virgin passengers, this is the just 'excuse' the competition is waiting for.
What happens if passengers leave Virgin .... well, you have an airline with lots of empty planes and no passengers.
Originally posted by AlanA
Virgin and their militant idiotic Cabin crew can take their airline and shove it.
I sincerely hope you're never on any of my flights and will be comparing my roster to your itinerary. Seriously, if you have this attitude whilst aboard then no wonder your perception of Cabin Crew is negative.
British Airways very, very nearly went through a strike not that long ago, they DID disrupt many of their passengers and now lots of our customers or potential customers are saying they'll fly BA in the future instead if we strike doesn't make true sense.
i understand you want a fair wage cc but i have been saving long and hard for my trip and i just dont want it disrupted . when do you think a strike will take place do you reckon they will wait till xmas?? to get biggest exposurre?? sincerely i hope you do get a fair deal soon and all this strike nonsense can get called off . do you think vs will come back with a better offer?after all its in their interests for you nt to strike
ANYONE who thinks that strike action benefits them some way are idiots! regardless of the industry they work in. I have had good experiance of this with The Rover group and Red Robbo, that REALLY helped get excellent salaries and jobs for life!
How much are you prepared to lose to get your over inflation pay rise?
The Clubhouse is what brings the passengers in, certainly not the reduced service that has become the three cabin classes, yet you want to make the passengers MANY of whom get paid less than you, many of whom have not had any pay rise this year or last year. You have at least had inflation.
You ruin peoples hard worked for holidays, then YOU will be the ones to suffer, or do you seriously think that t5here are jobs a plenty out there for Cabin crew? Ask the Globespan, the TCD, MYT, and many other airline crew who are losing their jobs.
you have am livable salary! What is your actual rate per hour? not your weekly/monthly rate but the actual salary you get for the hours you work. Are you working 37 hours a week, four weeks a month?
You also need to read the many travel forums and the attitude of many of your passengers, you know, the ones who's hard work, no pay rise can only afford one holiday per year pays your wages, to see what reputation you now have as cabin crew. Please don't try to blame it on poor salaries, that just does not wash.
Angry? yes I am. [:(!]
You have the ultimate sanction if you don't like the pay, go somewhere else, get a job in a supermarket, or a hospital or even another airline (if there were jobs available), yet you choose instead to screw up your passengers time and vacations instead, probably not at much cost to yourselves.
How much are you prepared to lose to get your over inflation pay rise?
The Clubhouse is what brings the passengers in, certainly not the reduced service that has become the three cabin classes, yet you want to make the passengers MANY of whom get paid less than you, many of whom have not had any pay rise this year or last year. You have at least had inflation.
You ruin peoples hard worked for holidays, then YOU will be the ones to suffer, or do you seriously think that t5here are jobs a plenty out there for Cabin crew? Ask the Globespan, the TCD, MYT, and many other airline crew who are losing their jobs.
you have am livable salary! What is your actual rate per hour? not your weekly/monthly rate but the actual salary you get for the hours you work. Are you working 37 hours a week, four weeks a month?
You also need to read the many travel forums and the attitude of many of your passengers, you know, the ones who's hard work, no pay rise can only afford one holiday per year pays your wages, to see what reputation you now have as cabin crew. Please don't try to blame it on poor salaries, that just does not wash.
Angry? yes I am. [:(!]
You have the ultimate sanction if you don't like the pay, go somewhere else, get a job in a supermarket, or a hospital or even another airline (if there were jobs available), yet you choose instead to screw up your passengers time and vacations instead, probably not at much cost to yourselves.
Originally posted by FlyCCOriginally posted by AlanA
Virgin and their militant idiotic Cabin crew can take their airline and shove it.
I sincerely hope you're never on any of my flights and will be comparing my roster to your itinerary. Seriously, if you have this attitude whilst aboard then no wonder your perception of Cabin Crew is negative.
And how would I tell any difference in the current attitude?
We have seen on other forums what you think of passengers, especially on the B & S routes. How many MMCO flights have you swapped then?
My perception is based upon your fellow crews comments about passengers, many travel forums reports of awful crew service,in all cabins, dissapearing crew for night flights, Galley FM at full volume, looking down at passengers if they dare to ask for a drink whilst you are all gossiping behind the galley curtain, previous flights with crew who don't perform well at all, but if you want to beleive its just me and my 'attitude' (heavens! Iv'e paid £3,000 for a ticket and expect to be treated like a human being, silly me! fancy expecting that!), fine, go ahead, please do provide me with awful service and IF I can tell the difference, then I will be happy to write to Virgin customer service with your name and your attitude towards the people who actually pay your wages. (Cue comments about we are not here for customers, we are your last line of safety )
(Then again, as I have done in the past, provide me with the service that Virgin was once known for and I will also write to VCS praising you by name!)
Hourly rate is not important. We aren't allowed under CAA regulation to fly more than 900 hrs per year. If I could work more then my monthly/annual salary would be ok on the current hourly rate. But we aren't allowed to do extra hours so we are stuck with around 800 pounds net each month. Thats is NOT a liveable salary when you are based in London.
I regularly read forums and am always dishearted to see how some crew are failing to look after people on board. There is no excuse for that, maybe VS need to look at how they recruit people and maybe they aren't getting the best people anymore due to the salary?
I always offer 110% on board even though I am worrying how I'm going to pay my rent and bills thats not for my customers to worry about. What has really wound me up recently is the ongoing problem of crew down. My last 3 trips I have worked in premium economy on my own. 35+ people is a lot of people to look after on your own and provide a 'premium' service. It worries me that people are waiting 2 hours before getting a hot meal and I take the problem personally. But at the end of the day I do my best, its Virgins fault we are crew down but why should I bust my balls doing 2 peoples work whilst getting paid a measly wage.
I regularly get Heros forms so I know I am doing a good job onboard. Unfortunately after many years at Virgin I have decided to leave. I can't survive on the pay.
And Alan, you mention a pay increase offer that is above inflation but a percentage increase over inflation does not make much difference if your pay is well below standard anyway.
I regularly read forums and am always dishearted to see how some crew are failing to look after people on board. There is no excuse for that, maybe VS need to look at how they recruit people and maybe they aren't getting the best people anymore due to the salary?
I always offer 110% on board even though I am worrying how I'm going to pay my rent and bills thats not for my customers to worry about. What has really wound me up recently is the ongoing problem of crew down. My last 3 trips I have worked in premium economy on my own. 35+ people is a lot of people to look after on your own and provide a 'premium' service. It worries me that people are waiting 2 hours before getting a hot meal and I take the problem personally. But at the end of the day I do my best, its Virgins fault we are crew down but why should I bust my balls doing 2 peoples work whilst getting paid a measly wage.
I regularly get Heros forms so I know I am doing a good job onboard. Unfortunately after many years at Virgin I have decided to leave. I can't survive on the pay.
And Alan, you mention a pay increase offer that is above inflation but a percentage increase over inflation does not make much difference if your pay is well below standard anyway.
This is the third-rail topic of the day, I can see (and some folks are running a very fast train down the line, to be sure! [:(]).
That said, it strikes ([:w]) me that the gulf between the two views expressed here (to make it terribly simplistic I will say 'two' -- the strike is justified vs the strike is not justified) is rather typical of modern day industrial action which is primarily based on perceived inequities of income (loosely defined as 'only money') versus more fundamental issues (cf Haymarket Riots, Gdansk Shipyards, Myanmar General Action, etc.). The fact is, it's simply harder to get people to sympathize, to step out of their own focus on service and comfort, when it's 'only money' as most people self-perceive they ought to be paid more, too.
Now, before I get flamed too badly (if you must, make it American oak, medium toasting), I know many CC folks see it as more than 'just money' and that's fine -- it may well be -- but having studied these fora in some depth, the vast majority of discussion and argument comes down to money, not freedom of speech or other fundamental human rights.
There are bright flashpoints on these fora, given that the strike takers interact here directly with the 'innocent party' impacted by the action -- IOW, the pax.
Given that close proximity, I would ask that we try to respect one another's positions and express ourselves without ad hominem attacks on individuals or collections of individuals. That's not to say one cannot be angry, fearful, proud or committed to one or another opinion.
Ultimately, this is not the official bargaining table. Nothing will get solved here. What we can ensure, however, is that no one is left feeling like a chump for having come here to express their views, so long as it is done in a spirit of engaged dialogue and not hissy, bomb-throwing fits.
Thank you.
GJ
That said, it strikes ([:w]) me that the gulf between the two views expressed here (to make it terribly simplistic I will say 'two' -- the strike is justified vs the strike is not justified) is rather typical of modern day industrial action which is primarily based on perceived inequities of income (loosely defined as 'only money') versus more fundamental issues (cf Haymarket Riots, Gdansk Shipyards, Myanmar General Action, etc.). The fact is, it's simply harder to get people to sympathize, to step out of their own focus on service and comfort, when it's 'only money' as most people self-perceive they ought to be paid more, too.
Now, before I get flamed too badly (if you must, make it American oak, medium toasting), I know many CC folks see it as more than 'just money' and that's fine -- it may well be -- but having studied these fora in some depth, the vast majority of discussion and argument comes down to money, not freedom of speech or other fundamental human rights.
There are bright flashpoints on these fora, given that the strike takers interact here directly with the 'innocent party' impacted by the action -- IOW, the pax.
Given that close proximity, I would ask that we try to respect one another's positions and express ourselves without ad hominem attacks on individuals or collections of individuals. That's not to say one cannot be angry, fearful, proud or committed to one or another opinion.
Ultimately, this is not the official bargaining table. Nothing will get solved here. What we can ensure, however, is that no one is left feeling like a chump for having come here to express their views, so long as it is done in a spirit of engaged dialogue and not hissy, bomb-throwing fits.
Thank you.
GJ
Just looking over the last few posts shows clearly the damage that has already been done!
What is a Virgin flight going to be like now?
Pax & CC at each others throats! - Does anyone - Pax or CC think that such flights are going to be a pleasant experience?
I'm stuck with one set of tickets - unless this is settled VERY quickly, I will not booking more with VS.
What is a Virgin flight going to be like now?
Pax & CC at each others throats! - Does anyone - Pax or CC think that such flights are going to be a pleasant experience?
I'm stuck with one set of tickets - unless this is settled VERY quickly, I will not booking more with VS.
Word is it's a big no to the latest offer 60% voted no.
we are now going to be voting for strike.
I will be voting that we don't go on strike. I voted yes for this offer.
If the majorty vote yes to strike and it goes ahead I will be stopping my union membership and will be going to work to help as virgin get as many flights out as poss. I would urge all other memebers who votes yes this time round to do the same.
we are now going to be voting for strike.
I will be voting that we don't go on strike. I voted yes for this offer.
If the majorty vote yes to strike and it goes ahead I will be stopping my union membership and will be going to work to help as virgin get as many flights out as poss. I would urge all other memebers who votes yes this time round to do the same.
Originally posted by flybird
Hourly rate is not important. We aren't allowed under CAA regulation to fly more than 900 hrs per year. If I could work more then my monthly/annual salary would be ok on the current hourly rate. But we aren't allowed to do extra hours so we are stuck with around 800 pounds net each month. Thats is NOT a liveable salary when you are based in London.
I regularly read forums and am always dishearted to see how some crew are failing to look after people on board. There is no excuse for that, maybe VS need to look at how they recruit people and maybe they aren't getting the best people anymore due to the salary?
I always offer 110% on board even though I am worrying how I'm going to pay my rent and bills thats not for my customers to worry about. What has really wound me up recently is the ongoing problem of crew down. My last 3 trips I have worked in premium economy on my own. 35+ people is a lot of people to look after on your own and provide a 'premium' service. It worries me that people are waiting 2 hours before getting a hot meal and I take the problem personally. But at the end of the day I do my best, its Virgins fault we are crew down but why should I bust my balls doing 2 peoples work whilst getting paid a measly wage.
I regularly get Heros forms so I know I am doing a good job onboard. Unfortunately after many years at Virgin I have decided to leave. I can't survive on the pay.
And Alan, you mention a pay increase offer that is above inflation but a percentage increase over inflation does not make much difference if your pay is well below standard anyway.
Flybird,
Don't get me wrong, I understand that, but the way to solve it is not by taking strike action, you are taking the right route, by moving on. If Virgin had this happening in great numbers they would have to pay more (or get more eastrn europeans in) but you know that the lists of people wanting to join far outweighs the list of people handing in their notice.
All strike action does is ruins the comapny, ruins the financial position of the staff and peopel go to other airlines.
Originally posted by virgin is the best
Word is it's a big no to the latest offer 60% voted no.
we are now going to be voting for strike.
I will be voting that we don't go on strike. I voted yes for this offer.
If the majorty vote yes to strike and it goes ahead I will be stopping my union membership and will be going to work to help as virgin get as many flights out as poss. I would urge all other memebers who votes yes this time round to do the same.
Good for you vitb! I doff my cap and offer my wholehearted respect to you. And you make an excellent point to boot - what are the 40% who voted 'Yes' going to do if a strike is called...?
Originally posted by AlanA
Then again, as I have done in the past, provide me with the service that Virgin was once known for and I will also write to VCS praising you by name!
And that's all to be blamed fairly and squarely at crew? Incredible attitude and I truly hope I never have the misfortune to sit next to you with such displays of affection or be at the receiving end of a service delivered by your management flair.
Originally posted by FlyBird
Alan I really don't think its 'idiotic' to fight for what you believe in. We are just asking for a liveable salary and as the company hasn't listened they now find themselves in a position where a large number of employees could go on strike.
I'm behind you Flybird, I hope your conditions improve, and yes I also hope that is reflected down the line in job satisfaction and how that presents itself to the customer.
Originally posted by Tombull10
We're not all militant crew you know! We just want to paid fairly for the job that we do. I'm sure you'd agree with that.
I'm sure many people here want the same for you Tombull - not just a few vocal militants [:p]. Of course, we also want to see this resolved fairly without affecting people's travel. My support for VS is not restricted to the bearded one or a few club houses, but recognises that people are in the top most categories when it comes to assets.
There's a plane at JFK, to fly you back from far away
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
Well this isn't coming from the premium perspective, but down back in Economy I've always found the Cabin Crew friendly, helpful and professional, even on their alledged least favourite MCO route.
Having read a lot of the other forums, I have formed the opinion that Virgin is not investing where it should be, particularly and most importantly in its people.
I hope that both parties can find the middle ground they need to keep the CC happy. I dread to think what the effects of a strike will be.
Good luck everybody!
Having read a lot of the other forums, I have formed the opinion that Virgin is not investing where it should be, particularly and most importantly in its people.
I hope that both parties can find the middle ground they need to keep the CC happy. I dread to think what the effects of a strike will be.
Good luck everybody!
Originally posted by slinky09Originally posted by AlanA
Then again, as I have done in the past, provide me with the service that Virgin was once known for and I will also write to VCS praising you by name!
And that's all to be blamed fairly and squarely at crew? Incredible attitude and I truly hope I never have the misfortune to sit next to you with such displays of affection or be at the receiving end of a service delivered by your management flair.
When crew are surley, ignore the passengers, ignore passengers call bells for long periods of time (when they are all in the galley, not serving other pax), when the general attidude stinks, of course that is the individual CC fault, not the company they work for.
Why on earth would you want to show displays of affection to cabin crew? As you work in IT you would not be able to stand the real world and the management flair needed to keep jobs in this country.
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