Skytrax reports getting worse.

Pax numbers, particularly on B&S routes, often only reflect opinions of the year or more previously.

Dangerous to ignore criticism such as currently on web, particularly if air travel growth is decreasing, or if the competition increases.

[Nottingham Nick]

I don't disagree Bill, but people have been bemoaning the LGW / MAN disparity of equipment; and perceived disparity of service, for a LOT longer than a year now, and VS still appear to be filling the planes at peak times.

Also, I have been reading the DIBB a fair bit just lately and whilst VS are certainly not getting full marks - the overall comments seem to be better than the other airlines doing the Flight to the Magic. [:o)]

Nick

I hear what you say Nick, but does the mix of J,W,Y not also reflect the profitability of the route.
LGW/MAN have far fewer high value seats - one must ask why - is it because they are unable to sell them as the image is slipping?

Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
.............. and VS still appear to be filling the planes at peak times.

Nick

I initially flew VS (1992) primarily because they were the only carrier offering a non-stop flight from MAN-MCO, having done my first MCO trip the previous year via Bangor, Maine, with Monarch. The VS product was by far the more superior one, but has been somewhat devalued as time has passed. The has not been helped by 9/11, increase in fuel costs/passenger duty/other miscellaneous taxes. Who remembers individual miniatures of gin offered - in all classes - with a whole tin of tonic to boot, menu cards in Y, and much better amenity kits (GJ) [;)]. But I think the reason for this customer 'loyalty' is somewhat down to the fact that, 16 years down the line, they are STILL the only carrier offering such flights, Could be that some competition on the route would cause VS to examine their product [:w]

[Pete]

Originally posted by Bill S
I hear what you say Nick, but does the mix of J,W,Y not also reflect the profitability of the route.
LGW/MAN have far fewer high value seats - one must ask why - is it because they are unable to sell them as the image is slipping?

I would suggest that is more to do with the demand on those routes serviced from LGW/MAN rather than an image problem. It's only recently that some 'tourist' routes have acquired an Upper Class service (previously being Club Orlando, etc), and the number of PE seats has increased on those routes due to higher demand for the extras.

However that said, the business routes primarily served out of Heathrow are always going to see more appetite for Upper Class because of the passengers that fly there. Corporate industry can fill up business class seats to New York, LA, Shanghai, etc every day of the week. Finding businesses that need to fly their people to Orlando, Bermuda and Mauritius is less common.

We should be careful not to confuse service delivery blips or the ongoing white noise of consistency with a downward slide. I just don't see the evidence based on averaged reports.

[Scrooge]

Originally posted by Pete
I agree that it's easy for a new passenger to fall into the trap that flying Virgin must be a rock-star event, but to be fair, Virgin aren't the ones making those promises - it's just a false expectation.

That I can't agree with, when VS places stuff on their website along the lines of 'feel like you are in 2A when your in 58D' and shows a picture of a cute young lady having a great time people are naturally going to look at this and think great, better than the charter airlines we've been on before. VS are promoting the Y product the same way they pushed the UC product when they came out with the UCS and im sorry to say that while the UC product can live up to the hype there is no way the Y product can. This is doing a disservice to the pax and VS. Until VS offer more legroom through out their Y cabins there is no way they should even think about promoting it in this way, this is what brings about a lot of the negative reviews.

The IFE is a sticky situation, in fairness to VS the IFE offered on the LGW/MAN is comparable to 90% of the other airlines in the world, it's just that V:Port is so much better.

Originally posted by Bill S
I hear what you say Nick, but does the mix of J,W,Y not also reflect the profitability of the route.
LGW/MAN have far fewer high value seats - one must ask why - is it because they are unable to sell them as the image is slipping?

Purely anecdotal and not scientific I freely admit, but I've yet to fly out of LGW on without hearing someone in Economy grumbling about the fact that PE seats weren't available when they booked. I think they could change the mix in favour of PE and UCS and still fill the seats, but a decision to refit would have to be made in light of remaining life of aircraft, mix of types across the fleet etc.

Paul

From the times that I've flown from the back of the plane, I've got nothing but praise for the crew's friendly and attentive service and the seat.

However, it's from reading the TRs on this site and reading comments from other sites, that gives me an idea of what to expect in Y. I don't know about other people, I tend to do a lot of research on every aspect of my trip before committing to it, i.e. Airport hotel/Parking, Flight and destination Hotel.

I'm a believer of if you're in Y then expect the minimium required service, anything else is a bonus. Also if you pay for peanuts then you get peanuts and I prepared to pay for peanuts. [:w]

However from experiencing other airlines Y cabins, give me VS anyday.

Can't wait for the day, I can afford to go PE or UCS. [:D]

I also can't fault VS economy so far - but my flights have been to Japan and back and I believe that the FA's on that run tend to work pretty hard to keep people happy as the Japanese customers expect it.

I am sure you also get more choice in terms of food on VS900/901.

It will be interesting to compare the great experiences I have had on VS900/901 to next month's journeys on VS025 and VS046.

Interesting that the Charters will have better or at least as good a cabin as Virgin.
Travel Chavs Direct say on their web site that from 2009 Economy will have up to 33' seat pitch (of course the telling words are 'up to'..)
and take a look at their PE equivalent cabins
http://www.travelcitydirect.com/florida ... /upgrades/

Sure, no UC equivalent, but still a huge attack on VS and BA's economy cabins eh?
And they are not the only ones:

First choice:
'For First Choice Airways longhaul flights, there is between 33' of legroom in a normal Economy seat, or 36' if you have upgraded to the Premium service'


and their PE WT+ equivalent:
'When flying with First Choice Airways you can experience the luxury of Star Class Premier - with spacious leather seats that can be adjusted to your individual preference and a personal entertainment system so you can watch what you want, when you want - you can be sure of a relaxing start to your holiday.

Dine on nutritional dishes from our contemporary menus, order your favourite tipple from the complimentary in-flight bar while the kids are kept busy by our 'Skytime' entertainment.

Amazing 36' legroom*
Air-filled leather seats for winged head support
9' widescreen seat back TV
Entertainment on demand - ability to stop, start and rewind programmes
30 channels with video and games on demand
Priority check-in and boarding
Delicious menu with a choice of 4 course meal and a snack before landing
Complimentary drinks
Sparkling cocktail before take-off
Complimentary pampering pack and noise reduction headphones
Mood cabin lighting '

[Pete]

The real big downside of the charters for me, and this may just be a personal thing, is that I can't earn Flying Club points on First Choice, and that's a big factor.

Originally posted by AlanA
Interesting that the Charters will have better or at least as good a cabin as Virgin.
Travel Chavs Direct say on their web site that from 2009 Economy will have up to 33' seat pitch (of course the telling words are 'up to'..)
and take a look at their PE equivalent cabins
http://www.travelcitydirect.com/florida ... /upgrades/

Sure, no UC equivalent, but still a huge attack on VS and BA's economy cabins eh?
And they are not the only ones:

First choice:
'For First Choice Airways longhaul flights, there is between 33' of legroom in a normal Economy seat, or 36' if you have upgraded to the Premium service'


and their PE WT+ equivalent:
'When flying with First Choice Airways you can experience the luxury of Star Class Premier - with spacious leather seats that can be adjusted to your individual preference and a personal entertainment system so you can watch what you want, when you want - you can be sure of a relaxing start to your holiday.

Dine on nutritional dishes from our contemporary menus, order your favourite tipple from the complimentary in-flight bar while the kids are kept busy by our 'Skytime' entertainment.

Amazing 36' legroom*
Air-filled leather seats for winged head support
9' widescreen seat back TV
Entertainment on demand - ability to stop, start and rewind programmes
30 channels with video and games on demand
Priority check-in and boarding
Delicious menu with a choice of 4 course meal and a snack before landing
Complimentary drinks
Sparkling cocktail before take-off
Complimentary pampering pack and noise reduction headphones
Mood cabin lighting '

However using the same site to quote about how bad VS is rated in Skytrax reviews, First Choice comes out worse.

http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/fchoice-1.htm

In the end, I would said it comes to down personal choice and VS would be my first option when coming to planning my next trip, even down the back of the plane.

What about the amenity kits ----- ahhh Im only joking - Seriously though the Skytrax reviews are always bad - You see I am convienced they only write down what they dont like - and not the positives - Just look at our own trip reports - I would say 80/90% are always a good ones. I just do not bother with Skytrax anymore - The information is old / not open minded and as I stated above - seems to be written by 'very depressing' people expecting F class in economy - K

As others have said, they do not post all TR's that are written, I wrote one about my bad experience on a BA flight, they never posted it, so it made me think that they were biased and only put the TR's on there that suit them. [V]

DMB

Originally posted by DMetters-Bone
As others have said, they do not post all TR's that are written, I wrote one about my bad experience on a BA flight, they never posted it, so it made me think that they were biased and only put the TR's on there that suit them. [V]

DMB

I agree, people soon know which sites that do have a bias. I feel that V-flyer contributors do report all aspects of VS unbiasly (well except for a certain extremely heated topic at the end of Dec 2007! [:w])

If VS do something very well then V-Flyer will sing it's praises, if Vs do something badly i.e. priority boarding, then the contributors will shout about it.

I think I've said this before but Y doesn't bring in the money for VS, UCS, PE, Au and cargo do.

Also, people do moan about Y in VS but if the price is right then they will use VS no matter how bad the VS Y product is.

Whilst the facilities on the charter flights are tempting - particularly for those who would happily splash out a little more because the flight is part of the holiday - the limited schedules are a big minus for me.

Paul

Our 'friends' on the Dibb are having a topic discussion on this very same topic at the moment.
Its quite interesting from shall we say the perceived pro Virgin biase of this site (Grin, not meant Pete, honestly!! [:D][:p][:p])

http://www.thedibb.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=199800

[Neil]

Originally posted by AlanA
Our 'friends' on the Dibb are having a topic discussion on this very same topic at the moment.
Its quite interesting from shall we say the perceived pro Virgin biase of this site (Grin, not meant Pete, honestly!! [:D][:p][:p])

http://www.thedibb.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=199800

This is what I love about the Dibb, plenty of posts saying that their VS flight was awful and there has been a decline, but no substance as to what has been wrong etc, we all have bad flights at some time but without real reason or fact as to why, saying it was crap is just irrelevant. Oh and of course there is the obligatory post of someone panicking that their flight is going to be bad too now.

The Dibb is very good and useful with many things, but I would rather trust the opinions and reviews of people of sites like VS than the Dibb.

Originally posted by Neil

Originally posted by AlanA
Our 'friends' on the Dibb are having a topic discussion on this very same topic at the moment.
Its quite interesting from shall we say the perceived pro Virgin biase of this site (Grin, not meant Pete, honestly!! [:D][:p][:p])

http://www.thedibb.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=199800

This is what I love about the Dibb, plenty of posts saying that their VS flight was awful and there has been a decline, but no substance as to what has been wrong etc, we all have bad flights at some time but without real reason or fact as to why, saying it was crap is just irrelevant. Oh and of course there is the obligatory post of someone panicking that their flight is going to be bad too now.

The Dibb is very good and useful with many things, but I would rather trust the opinions and reviews of people of sites like VS than the Dibb.

Although the posters moan about the flights, they seem to be quite happy to still use the VS product. It is because of cost and VS/VH still works out cheaper than using First Choice or who else that goes to the Mouse.

Still goes back to my point, if the VS Y is still cheaper than another Y product then who do you go with?