VS' standards?

OK, sorry, I know that this has been discussed many times before, but wherever you go, you find that there are lots of negative comments about Virgin? Even on here there has been mentioned about crew who don't seem to want to servce passengers.
Is it true or is it just the fact that these things happen - or is it becoming a real problem for VS. I found the staff to be really nice, and friendly, and it's a shame that all these comments are being said because Virgin used to be really respected but with some other forums across the internet, do you think Virgin is just like a poor carrier.

Regards

[Pete]

It has come up a few times, but I think those are the exception rather than the rule according to the charts.

Pix

I agree with dan ... that it probably isn't the norm, however people only ever mention the bad service received and not the great service that VS provides when it all goes right.

One thing I have noticed is when things start to go wrong on VS everything seems to fall apart;

This summer we flew to mco in PE and had the best service on the way out. However on the way back there was no champagne, no IFE, and the crew felt it necessary to discuss other passengers in our ear shot ... not great.

Yep, I thought it was the minority - I just hope Virgin can get abit more consistent and it would be very rare to see a bad report on Virgins service - because when Virgin is good its great!

Another issue at play is that people often build high expectations of Virgin and their service, and understandably feel deflated when they aren't met - regardless of whether the expectations were unreasonable or not. Basically they probably feel deflated from the moment they join the check-in snake at Heathrow, and feel duty-bound to pick fault from thereon in!

VS could be their own worst enemy here anyway, as their marketing often only makes a noise about their premium cabins, and there is a gaping chasm between Upper and Economy - I'd say it's even more pronounced than most other scheduled airlines.

VS Economy service is somewhere on a par with a charter airline, in terms of gigantic check-in lines, poor leg room, draconian carry-on policy, and only one pass through with the drinks cart (but at least you don't pay extra for anything off it). The charter airlines are threatening to catch up with VS in terms of IFE and gimmicks, which will leave the VS Y service looking a bit jaded.

I'm used to flying United a lot, and only recently switched to Virgin when UA cut their schedules on some routes I use (especially BOS and EWR). I was utterly appalled the first time I travelled VS in Y, compared to the UA Y cabin, but mostly because it wasn't what I was used to. UA come round with the drinks cart several times, they take the foil lid off the food for you, and they have real coffee, rather than bitter-tasting instant muck. They also used to have decent desserts rather than off-the-shelf stuff you can find in the supermarket (e.g. sickly gooey "Crunchie-ish" things), even in Y (UA tend to dish out a lot of ice cream these days).

VS seemed to think they can get away with this stuff by thrusting a big tv in your face. Since then, I've got to know VS' idiosyncracies and I'm better prepared for them!

The good news is that we're told VS will be overhauling their Y service soon, now that they have got the Upper cabin sorted. I live in hope!

I definitely agree with the assertion about things falling apart when there is any irregularity. I'd much rather see a swan (graceful on the surface, despite thrashing below the waterline) during irregular ops, than a load of staff charging around like headless chickens!

In my experience, VS' timekeeping is pretty lousy, almost every flight I've been on in the past 12 months has been at least 30 minutes late at destination, though that could just be Heathrow doing it's worst, and pushing the flight ops guys (Hi Airchabum!) to the max.

There's also the common thing that bad experiences stick out more in your mind than good ones!

All in all, I think VS are one of the better airlines flying, certainly in terms of their premium cabins, and their lounges, which blow almost all of the competition out of the water. (I'm looking forward to ANZ having the Suites and new Y seating, because their food and service is already really good.)

Not so sure about VS' Economy service though, I think it's easily beaten right now - though the VS Y blankets and comfort kits are probably the best out there!

Cheers,
Mike

quote:Originally posted by mike-smashing

Not so sure about VS' Economy service though, I think it's easily beaten right now - though the VS Y blankets and comfort kits are probably the best out there!

I travel 3 times a year or so with work on Virgin and have never had any bad comments to make, and I always fly economy. Legroom a bit ropey, but then again I've only got BA to compare against and I'd rather go Virgin any time.

There are only 2 times in the 14 or so flights which were worthy of comment - being double booked on to one of the exit seats, and I was promptly given a seat in PE, which was very kind, and also on the same flight whilst I was sat down in PE and peering into the UC suite (very nosey I know), one of the cabin crew stomped over to the curtain and very brusquely drew it shut! Which made me laugh!

Cheers
Richard

You do read some very negative comments about VS service. I think
that there are some common factors to a lot of these:

- they often refer to the "holiday" destinations as opposed
to the "business" ones. You seem to get a lot more complaint
from the flights to Florida and the Carribean and for flights
from LGW than for others. It would seem that VS service on
these flights may not match up to others (though I've never
taken any of them so can't comment from personal experience)

- they almost always refer to economy flights. VS have got
a very good story as far as PE and UC goes. They are excellent
products. Their lounges are consistently among the best
I use anywhere in the world and PE/UC IF service is very
good.

Comments?
Chris

quote:Originally posted by cshore
You do read some very negative comments about VS service. I think
that there are some common factors to a lot of these:

- they often refer to the "holiday" destinations as opposed
to the "business" ones. You seem to get a lot more complaint
from the flights to Florida and the Carribean and for flights
from LGW than for others. It would seem that VS service on
these flights may not match up to others (though I've never
taken any of them so can't comment from personal experience)

Talking of service on the VS holiday destinations, this thread has popped up over on thedibb http://www.thedibb.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?s=87f73523971ade57118a34a633426c22&threadid=41028

Lots of people on that website mentioned above saying they've used Virgin for many years and no probs so maybe it is no different to anyone else who also have bad staff- I think the main problem is that the MAN planes are 20 years old and the Gatwick planes, although only 3 years (?) old have Nova with very few channels currently. It'll be a great thing when the 744s are used on MAN routes and Nova has more channels along with UCS!

As for staff, well I suppose most of the time is when the passenger saying the staff are rude are rude to the staff themselves I suppose. I read once that a pax (on a VS flight) was moaning to cabin crew because the seat didn't have a headrest! OK, but the staff can't magic up a headrest in-flight! Also, someone was saying that, because he couldn't get his 1st meal choice, he was ranting how 'they asked for the passport in the airport but not what you wanted to eat'. I mean - it's the same with all airlines, they can't carry 300 chicken, 300 beef and 300 veggie meals!

Of couse though, there are staff who are rude to everyone, but I think these are more rarer than the ones who are nice but maybe get their patience tested when someone moans and demands about stupid things or goes to the galley and goes 'give me water' instead of 'can I have some water please' and treats crew with disrespect!

My confidence has been restored, and the staff I have encountered are all great - I was just worried about flying them anymore because of all the negative comments you see about them.

Reagrds
Sorry if I bored you with this horribly long post!;)

[fozzyo]

I think the cabin crew do an amazing job, looking after x hundred (not sure of figures i'm afraid) people is not an easy job. Especially when they are squished into little seats in a small space. I wonder if vsdan is onto something, how many of those people complaining about VS were complaining to the staff or being obnoxious to them.

Also from Virgin's point of view, I imagine it is very hard work keeping staff motivated and ensuring floorless levels of service and smiles. And that must be one of the bigger customer services challeneges faced by crew.

Personally I have never had a bad flight or experience, in Econ, PE or UC. And I have to say now having read comments and reports on V-Flyer if I wasn't happy with something on a flight I would be much more inclined to bring it to the attention of the FSM - rather then just winge and gripe about it afterwards.

Foz xxx

I think people are people..
Most VS Crew are fantastic - they really are..but some people have off days..

The Worst flight with VS I ever had was with a Virgin Vigin (My friend normally flies BA) we were flying to JFK on the evening flight in Y

The flight was OK but one Scotish Crew member was in a foul mood and that really deminished the flight.

I (unusally) didnt make a big deal as it wasnt that tangable..

anyway on the way back we both got upgraded from PE to Upper (J200)
My friend definately prefered Virgin after that!

Since then I always get to know the FSM and the names of the people in my section.

I find you always get great service if you do this -it's more personable - your Jonathan not 21H!

[buns]

There is a lot in this thread on:

1. Expectations

2. Crew Attitude

Expectations

As we see many times on this Forum, many people look forward to their "trip of a Lifetime to Florida" (I prefer to phrase it "once you have been to Florida, you spend the rest of your lifetime going back")and with all the hype in the VH Brochure it is sometimes no wonder that the reality of living with 300+ pax on a 747 brings down that expecation. I beleive we on this forum have a duty to help ease the first timers with useful tips an hints on how to make such a journey still memorable - even if that does mean not being OPUP'd;)

Crew Attitude

Whilst I would be the first to say that sometimes on inbound flights from the US, the crew have been not as attentive as they were on the way out, this is no wonder they only get 24 hours stop over and heaven knows what this must do to body clocks. However, no-one has yet mentioned what a demanding lot us PAX can be and this of course is linked to my first point.

sorry for the length of the post, but I think it just boils down to all airlines are having to make a living in a very demanding market and the service as experienced in bygone days on the Imperial Flying Boats just cannot be done in this current economic climate

buns

Sorry if I sounded as if I was onto something in my last post - I was just making a suggestion as to why there is negative comments about VS.

I have 100% respect for cabin crew! They are responsible for 100s of passengers's safety ect and they are constantly travelling through different time-zones and have little sleep and muddled eating patterns amongst more! I'm sorry but I am not onto something, I was just worried reading negative reports about Virgin, and I echo all your comments about how they do an excellent job in a confined space and how they have been friendly.

I'm sorry if I sounded weird or didn't make sense in previous threads - I'm not onto something at all and, when I'm older I want to be cabin crew too, but I do respect all cabin crew out there and i realise why sometimes pacience can get tested sometimes!

As a cabin crew member what an excellent thread for me to read.

Cshore, am not sure why services should be of a less standard ex lgw. All crew operate on all routes so the standard should be more or less the same. However having just got back from Orlando I have to say it is definitely one of the more testing routes we do. On a regular east coast flight we will have an average of about 20 special meals to give out, Orlando is more like 100, if there is a problem with one of the orders this disrupts the service even more so. Tired children and parents make for an interesting mix, and buns4vs says, expectations run extremely high. Some onboard will be inevitably disappointed with the service as it's really hard to give everyone onboard a more individual service, but the crew I just worked with were exceptionally hardworking and dedicated, we just do our best. I hope some of them get to read this thread as its very encouraging.

Vsdan, your comments did not sound negative in the slightest and this crew member did not take any offence. I think 10 years ago we were pioneers in everything we did and now the other airlines have caught up and in some sense have overtaken. Problem in economy is that loads are so high now, more or less every flight goes full. I wonder if the company is in such a rush to change things in economy at the moment with such great loads.

To all of you, your posts on this thread are really gratefully received, I always like looking at this site when I get home from a flight so it was brilliant to read so many positive comments.

Now am off to bed!!

quote:I think 10 years ago we were pioneers in everything we did and now the other airlines have caught up and in some sense have overtaken

I did read on one of the BA boards a while back, a comment from a very regular and very loyal BA pax that in his opinion every improvement in any aspect of the BA service over the last 10 years was a direct response to an innovation introduced by VS.


I don't think we need to beat VS up over their Y service in my recent travels its been just as good/bad as any other airline in Y. whatever the leg room charts show 12 hours down the back on BA is not a lot of fun.

> Cshore, am not sure why services should be of a less standard exlgw.

I'm not sure either but it does seem that LGW/MAN and holiday
flights generate worse feedback (and more of it) than the biz
ones. I fly on business with VS 6-8 times per year and am always
impressed. I don't think I've ever had a bad experience. But then
my flights are generally not full of families taking long haul
flights to Florida with two toddlers etc. I'm sure this makes
for a worse experience all round. I salute any IFA's who deal
with that all day every day!

There is also the fact that those destinations (and flights leaving
from MAN and LGW) are on generally much older aeroplanes with
older IFE systems. If you've seen the adverts and hype about
vport and suites and then emd up on an old plane with neither,
I guess you're not going to be pleased!

Does that explain at least some of it?

quote:Originally posted by cshore
> But then my flights are generally not full of families taking long haul flights to Florida with two toddlers etc. I'm sure this makes for a worse experience all round. I salute any IFA's who deal
with that all day every day!

Whilst I appreciate the sentiments can I point out that some toddlers behave better than the average business traveller - of course there are always exceptions.

Also - I dont think any IFAs deal with this every day! - I guess a love of kids helps but from my experience of the LGW-MCO route most IFAs love the experience and find it a lot more rewarding that dealing with the adults.

Phil (Buffy)

[Decker]

There are exceptions to all averages - hence averages . Fortunately the nature of this board accommodates all camps, pro- and anti- child. Tolerance - it's a wonderful thing...[|)] ommmmmm

quote:Originally posted by Decker
There are exceptions to all averages - hence averages . Fortunately the nature of this board accommodates all camps, pro- and anti- child. Tolerance - it's a wonderful thing...[|)] ommmmmm

The reference to exception was in reference to the 'some toddlers' not the 'average business traveller' [8D]

Do take your point though Decker and certainly not meaning to be intolerant to cshores view (they are his views). I've been on terrible flights with annoying adult travellers and great ones with youngsters.

All light hearted stuff.

Possibly why B&S flights are not as highly regarded - apart from the entertainment systems - is that people going on holiday have higher (unrealistic) expectations - after all they're going on holiday. Business Travellers certainly expect more generally but as experienced fliers we tend to be more forgiving when things occassionally go wrong.

Phil (Buffy)

[Decker]

No suggestion of intolerance on your part I hasten to add! Just putting the moderator oar in BEFORE a spiral starts (Been there, seen that, joined in (pre mod days [8D]).

Whoa! Don't want to get miscontrued here...
I have nothing against toddlers. I had two myself (who are
not much bigger than toddlers now). I too have seen some much
worse behaviour from adults on aeroplanes than from children.
It's just that tha atmosphere on a plane which contains
primarily families with young children who are going on
holidays (when going long-haul it's frequently "the holiday
of a lifetime" too so expectations are higher) can be a little
fractious.
Don't write me off yet!!

As a frequent Bulkhead seat traveler I can honestly say that mostly small people are very good on vs flights..

Conversely I'm amazed at how badly some pax treat crew..