Locked topics

First of all, let me say that I completely understand the preference for not having simultaneous, duplicate threads running in these hallowed pixel halls. I agree that the best method for precluding continuation of redundant virtual declarations is for a mod (or a rocker, for that matter) to lock the topic and offer a link to the earliest relevant thread.

And yet...

I have become more and more aware of a trend that more and more posters seem to transgressing on the unwritten law of "NO DUPLICATIVE THREADS" and are thus being summarily locked down with all the martial force of an afternoon at Abu Ghraib.

The message these online handcuffs sends to at least this reader is, "Stupid git, how dare you post something already under discussion." And I am sure this is not the aim. Most people here are truly good-intentioned, kind and pleasant people who would never dream of using the word "how."

But the sheer number of visitors being scolded, locked down, or even gently reminded by the kindest of this site's great and good that their post is a repeat seems, at least to me, to be on the rise.

I wonder if we could curtail the rise of these offending posters with a reminder before the posting is initiated -- or finalized. I ask you, gentle reader, would this approach be worth considering?

For instance, when someone clicks "Reply to post" or "Create a new topic" would it be possible for a link to "Search" -- or at least a reminder to conduct a search -- to magically appear in order that well-meaning posters could indeed verify the sanctity and uniqueness of their topics and wouldn't have to transgress the purity of the discussion boards?

Speaking for myself, it just seems a bit unwelcoming and frankly superior to constantly see posters being told their well-meant efforts to discuss a topic are off base and unwelcome. I think it would be more friendly and welcoming to make the effort to proactively and visibly remind people that the conduct of a simple topic search can save them finding themselves in a position similar to having released wind in the midst of Sunday services. And, goodness knows, such an approach is in keeping with the extraordinary mutual goodwill this vaunted Web site enjoys.

I'm just not sure most casual users realize that a search is warranted and useful.

Thanks for your consideration.

And if there's a thread on this topic already, all I can say is pity me. I am a fool, but I am God's fool, and upon such reality plead my succor.

GJ

gosh you're brave!

Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
But the sheer number of visitors being scolded, locked down, or even gently reminded by the kindest of this site's great and good.

WOW!![:0] [:0] [:0]

You are very brave, I got 4 pm's from trouble decker the day i joined here, anyway the dual posting is common on most sites and is a recognised problem equaly as to the thought police style of moderating, in a recent poll 8 out of 10 moderators claim to have been bullied whilst at school Lol

[Decker]

GJ

You touch upon an interesting point which has been discussed and discussed in the neo-Valhalla that is the moderator's forum. As mods we DO have a responsibility to ensure that the primary function of this board (helping people to discuss and learn about VS) is fulfilled and multiple threads on the same subject don't help this. BUT we wish to remain welcoming to new members. So for the past month or two we have made a conscious effort to "lighten" our hand on this. If you have noticed the increase in locked threads hopefully you will have noticed the "this is under discussion here but we won't lock this in case something new is developing" threads.

Locking a thread is now done a lot less rapidly than in the past because even the mods realise it is unwelcoming. We are continually reassessing how to make it easier for people to find the information they are looking for without having to post "I am sure this has been asked before but what plane will I be on?" questions.

Regretfully every now and again we get "trolls" joining the forum who seem intent on wreaking havoc. This is another unwelcome addition caused by the popularity of the forum. Take G-VSKY 97's assertion. He has a fixation with a specific negative incident in VS's flying history because one of his relatives was on the flight in question. He therefore developed a pattern of commenting on this in a manner that led the mods to conclude that he was doing it with ulterior motives. (This was before he admitted the familial connection). Did he get 4 PMs from me? No he got three. He posted on a thread drawing attention to this incident (thereby confirming he knew this thread existed) then AFTER that he started a completely new thread with a heading drawing attention to this incident. Normally we don't discuss private correspondence but in this case he appears not to mind be referring to it himself so here is the meat of the three posts in question...

24/02/2006 15:06
[RL name omitted] - you KNOW there's an open post on the NAt Geo prog so please add the following to that post instead of starting a new thread on the same subject. Cheers

Decker

I also asked about his past life - had he been XYZ?. In his next PM he confirmed that he had and asked had I. I replied in my next PM that I had not but that I knew someone was looking for him. He asked where this was and my third and final PM for that day provided him with the URL.

Hardly heavy handed.

We're all adults and can take criticism - we even welcome constructive criticism. Your point is well made and rest assured we will consider your suggestion. Anybody else having suggestions on user friendly ways of helping people not to make multiple posts is welcome to submit them here or privately!

Thanks

Decker

GJ Ð your post followed very closely on my locking of a thread, so it may help if I note the sequencing of events on that most recent locking of a topic.

1) A discussion sprung up about a new VS TV add. here. Let us call this thread 1.
2) A second thread sprang up on the same subject a couple of days later here. Let us call it thread 2.
3) I was the first mod on this morning, and noticed the duplication, as indeed a poster in thread 2 had also done. I reviewed the two threads and concluded that the most current discussion was happening on thread 2.
3) I posted the following on thread 1:

Sorry one and all, but this topic is already under discussion here .

All though this is the older thread, more recent discussion seems to be going on there, which just means we missed that duplication I am afraid. Sorry for that, but I will lock this one down.

Now call me slow and dim, but that seems to be a pretty conciliatory reply, explaining why have decided to lock thread 1 even though it was the first thread. I am afraid I totally fail to see how my response could be equated to

"Stupid git, how dare you post something already under discussion."

Nor do I see how my response could be classed as

unwelcoming and frankly superior

And it is just worth mentioning that at no point did I imply that thread 1 was

off base and unwelcome

4) I then PM'ed the originator of thread 1, explaining again what had happened in a more personal way. The OP PM'ed back saying he was fine with the action taken.

The moderators have discussed the use of a curt "TLTAD" and the wrong impression that such a response may give. This is the reason that moderators take so much trouble to make the "landing softer" these days. As such I have to say your sensitivity seems misplaced and confused.

Decker 6 PM's from the 24/2 - 3/3 but as you say we are all adults and can count, I have flown evry year since 1997 with VS to lax and have also done Antigua, BOS and JFK so I think that counts for support, but if you genuinely feel I bring nothing to this forum I will fall on my sword and leave quietly

Hope the mods don't mind me saying this, but in the past I have accidentally transgressed on occaision and asked a question twice
( forgetting I already asked it ), easy done on a long thread, anyway sometimes the slap on the wrist though always polite did make me[:I]
and I already know I can be a dumb ass.[:o)]..must concentrate more.

On the other hand I have also noticed the mods have been more lighthearted lately.

I have tried to tip as meany Dibb,ers in this general direction when they ask about VA, so there might be quite a few novice posters on this site that transgress innocently.

Originally posted by easygoingeezer
I already know I can be a dumb ass.[:o)]..must concentrate more.

No, you are wrong. You are not a dumb ass.

Priginally posted by EGG
On the other hand I have also noticed the mods have been more lighthearted lately.

Great [y] That is what we hoped people would notice.

I agree the original poster (Grinning Jackanappes) hit it right on the mark. I am scared to death of being chastised by the moderators on this forum, one in particular. (Personally, I think he enjoys the power trip).

Go ahead, bar me forever. I'll survive. Just curious, do they have freedom of speech in the UK?

Is it in the best interests of the site that this conversation goes on??? I think not personally.

This site does an exceptional job, providing invaluable imformation to many of the users. I think this topic needs putting to bed and lets get on to what we all like and do best - VS ;):D

We clearly have pro's and con's for both arguements - I am sure that most people will agree that a moderator's decision is there to be respected and normally based on good reasoning, however we will always have individual differences in opinion!!

Might I add to my previous comment That this site actually IS the most open minded and friendly one I have ever seen.

Lots of ordinary hardworking people with a common interest rather than a point to make.

LONG LIVE V-FLYER.

and whilst I am on my soap box,[}:)]

BRING BACK THE LAMB...ERM SHANK[:I]

I have to say that the mods in this forum are far more friendly and less ego driven than on a few other boards I've spent time on.

In fact, truth be told I can only name one or two mods on here due to the simple fact that they behave like normal members and do their job quietly and without fuss.

I'm not kissing up to anyone, if I feel someone is out of line I will be one of the first to say so, but a lot of these comments are unfounded and just aimed at starting some mod bashing.

thankyouverymuch

[fozzyo]

I think the mods have made a very good effort recently to move away from the "TLTAD" (Thread Locked to Avoid Duplication) days of old, which for me is very welcome. I have had several threads locked while i've been here, never taken it personally and i've always had a msg explaining either in the thread or a PM.

This is a good conversation to have, our concerns as users of this forum should be known to the mods. But please keep comments and criticisms constructive, shouting and accusing people (anonymously or by naming them) of stuff isn't very nice or going to help your argument. I am a mod an an unrelated forum and it isn't an easy job. In my opinion these guys do a great job, and when you have as many users as V-Flyer does it is impossible to please everyone.

Thanks
Mat

PS: Should this thread be moved to the Website forum instead of General Discussion?

Let me just say that in my time at V-Flyer, I do not believe that I have had any of my threads locked. Why? Because I use the search feature to see whether my thread has already been discussed. Personally I don't think it's that difficult to do that.

I also think that locking duplicate threads helps everyone on this site, especially "the new guys", to navigate the different threads with ease, and is a relatively good thing.

[Bazz]

As a team of people who support and enjoy VAA we are always looking for ways to enable our members and visitors enjoy the site more. We recognise that the skills people have vary and try to be sympathetic when we lock down a thread for reasons of duplication rather than just jumping on it. I think we would all agree that there is merit in keeping all posts related to a particular topic in one place.

We welcome input, ideas, yes and constructive criticism from all our members. You would be surprised I am sure, by the amount of time we spend deliberating on these matters both online and at our frequent socials. Noboby wants to put a member down but what we cannot allow is for someone to try to manipulate the direction of the site for personal reasons.

Egg GJ ([:I] sorry GJ) thanks for starting this thread, I hope the comments that have been added help us all have a better understanding and that we can continue to grow a harmonious community of V-Flyers!

[preiffer]

GJ,

You have brought a very valid point up - indeed, it's one that we struggle with a lot as well. As Barry has mentioned, it's a topic that's frequently discussed both on and off line within the moderating group.

To be fair to all parties, it is important that we keep replies/thoughts relating to an identical thread together. The Sky TV advert is a perfect example of this.

We recommend that new users make use of the "Search" function for existing information - how confusing would the results become if it returned 4 threads, all generated on the same day, with 5 posts in each? (Wouldn't the new user prefer 1 thread with all 20 comments in?)

On the topic of "off topic", this is a real challenge for us right now. While regular users of the site appreciate the banter that goes on, and general chit-chat within threads (I do, for one) - it can be quite frustrating for new users who are using the site for what it is advertised as: A Virgin Atlantic Resource.

On many occasions, several of us have managed to drag a topic wildly off (myself included [:I]). In these instances, we must be sensitive that the original poster's question/issue may not yet have been resolved.

In this case, it can be quite annoying for that user, who's trying to get their issue resolved - and one of the tasks of the moderating team is to ensure threads run fluidly, providing value to all reading them.


While I agree (and accept) that sometimes the practice of locking threads can appear quite short and strict, there does have to be a balance.

Having the amount of freedom to generate as many threads as we like on the same topic sounds great in theory - but wouldn't it be nicer to find the information you want in one place, rather than many?

(And hence, the reason many of us are here, rather than Google, for VS info...)

I wonder if a pop up would get really annoying to regular posters?

Just to be clear, I don't think anyone is saying there are less locked threads. I don't know the reality of that one way or another. However I think people were trying to say that a less curt approach, more consultative help than 'ticking off', was being employed.

Is "duplicative" is a proper word (Not in the OED)- you'll have the spelling police down on you

BAZZ says :-quote

Egg thanks for starting this thread, I hope the comments that have been added help us all have a better understanding and that we can continue to grow a harmonious community of V-Flyers!


Easy replies[:w]

Thanks Bazz but I didn't start the thread, I sorta just joined in[:I]

Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
As for "duplicative," whilst it may not be in the OED, it is in several other dictionaries including the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (2000 edition)...to wit:

Oh well that's OK then.

[Scrooge]

As has been said already,there is a fine line that the mods have to walk,however with close to 240K people hitting the site per month on ave so far this year if duplicate threads were allowed to run the site would soon be bogged down with 20 threads asking the same questions.

I know it would be a pain for the mods to do,but how about linking the main thread to the one thats lockled down.Such as...

"Thread locked to avoid duplication,please look here"

On a couple of the forums I have modded,it's been the rule to simply delete the thread an message the person that started it the reason why.A little heavy handed for me.

Please don't forget,if you feel that a thread has been unfairly locked you can always PM the mods or an admin and talk to them about it.

I have seen threads on "other" forums that have been deleted because some members ruin them with arguments or piont scoring, i always think thats a shame because the OP might well have asked an honest question and his/hers thread simply vanishes. I think locking them is better in that instance.

I thought the adding threads together was neat, sometimes you get a duplicate but everyone seems to have a valid point to make on all of them.

Its also cool when a thread vears off the original subject as oft happens with a happy chatty bunch and another thread is made from it rather than close it and stop the tate a tate. Seen that lately and have been well impressed.

[Scrooge]

Just to answer the threads going off topic,this seems to happen for the most part when a thread has run it's course and someone [:I] makes a remark that is kind of on topic,but is leaning away from it,from there the usual suspects jump on board and it becomes a free for all,but again for the most part it's a fun place to chat and thats one of the things that makes this site so good.AAs long as the original question has been answered clearly then I see no harm in this happening and during the course of these "discussions" valid points on other things have come to light which then start another thread so helping the site.

[mcmbenjamin]

Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes

"duplicative,"

OT: Random question. Maybe it is just the American English I have been taught but it seams that a bunch of people put commas and other punctuation outside the quotation marks. I certainly do not use the correct grammar myself but wonder if putting punctuation outside quotation marks is what is taught in British schools. For example: Ben asked, ÒAre you member of VFÓ?
commas and other punc

[preiffer]

Careful, Ben - too far off topic, and we'll have to lock it [:p]