Virgin Economy - needs improvement

[mcmbenjamin]

Age is not the factor that defines ability directly, sure, maybe.

I do not find an argument based around an older pilot having more relevant experience than a younger pilot to be mostly valid. I feel that a pilot trained originally in a glass cockpit environment (from the first training flight) is better skilled than pilots first taught on round gauges. New flight students can fly a DA40 with the G1000 better than I, after there instrument rating. Those students can learn quicker in the CRJ sim; quicker than pilots who were taught in a round gauge based aircraft. G1000 students have better skill than gauge based pilots in the CRJ sim. There are the flight physiology things to consider too. Younger, healthier pilots handle thing quicker. Could go on for ages but.
MTSU/NASA will be publishing a report on this later this year.

My main point is to younger FAs having a greater appeal to a greater audience. We could vote but that is a jaded pool. Fly QANTAS or BA.

Let go back on topic but feel free to have the last word.

Incidentally, what's the significance of 137 - your last 3:D

Treelo

I could tell you but then I'd have to ...... well, you probably know the rest!;)

Originally posted by wraf137
Treelo

I could tell you but then I'd have to ...... well, you probably know the rest!;)

'nuff said

Lets be honest, NO economy product is brillient, the more people want to travel for next to no money the less comfortable its going to be.

I think transatlantic travel is the only product where people want
luxury and pampering for a ridiculous price.

If you buy your pies from "happy Shopper" don't expect the meat filling.

Originally posted by sailor99

Originally posted by porsche911
What does their product (Thai) or SIA econmy product have that VS does not that makes a huge difference

34" and red curry

Ah, but then Air India does a great curry too! I have no diea what the seat pitch in Y is with them, but their timekeeping is dreadful!

Hi all,

I think there are several factors eroding away at Virgin's Y product. These are my idle thoughts on it, as someone who earnt their Silver Card the hard way in 03/04 (LHR-LAX in Y several times!)

1. Skewed perceptions. Part of this I feel is a hangover from the days when air travel was a privilege only open to the wealthy. But while the price of a ticket has come into the range of more and more budgets, the perception of air travel as an 'extravagent' way to travel hasn't changed all that much and indeed for many, on their annual 'big holiday' it *is* still a special occassion. And perhaps that's where the problem is - there are many who have this idea in their head that 400 quid per ticket(say), being such a significant amount of money to them, equate what they think 400 quid *should* receive rather than what it actually does buy you. It's not in an airline's best interests to play down the benefits of what you get in "Y", but when marketing spin in layered over the basic product, some people are going to be disappointed when they squeeze into their Economy seat, no matter how unfair their expectations.

2. Patchy service. I've had some good flights in Y, but there have been bad ones too. I don't know if it's a cultural thing, average age of the cabin crew or the day of the week but I've been on flights with a strong case of 'Topshop Girl Indifference'. If your one flight a year is on one of the 'bad' flights, it's bound to erode away at the brand.

3. Competition overtaking on the seat pitch. Oh, for an extra inch of recline on the Economy chairs! The "you pays your money, you takes your choice" refrain will only hold so far - if competitors are coming up on the outside with decent seat-back systems *and* a little more room at the back... well, it's these little things that affect a person's choice of airline when they're on a budget.

As for improvements. Well, if they want to foster long-term brand loyalty like they have for most of us on this board, they really should take up Flying Club more *and improve Silver Benefits* to add even more incentive to stay loyal. I'm not just saying that as a Silver Card holder - I think people who mix-and-match their transatlantic flights would make more of an effort to stick with Virgin if they knew that Silver would get them some perks they'd tell their friends about. A couple of CH passes on attaining/renewing would be the easiest perk for Virgin to add for the greatest benefit I feel - they lead the way in lounge quality and I'm sure a lot of people would actively seek out Virgin flights if they knew going up a tier would allow them to experience it once a year.

I'll stop now before this rambles on too much... and I should be working anyway! [:p]

Darryl

Hey
They put in on the site - see - http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/vir_atl.htm
Who said they would not post a positive TR for Virgin - Keith

Hey
They put in on the site - see - http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/vir_atl.htm
Who said they would not post a positive TR for Virgin - Keith

Well done[y]

Very interesting thread this, and thought I'd throw in my opinion.

I did Cape Town - London in Economy on an A346, and have to say the main issue is space. Coming out on an A343 seemed a lot better, which is why I'm still a bit surprised by the comments of variances in the seat spacing on VS.

At the end of the day, economy seats will always be the least spacious seats on the aircraft regardless of carrier, so I would suggest that changes be made instead to improve other areas that do not involve ripping out large amounts of revenue seats with nothing in return:

- Food quality ( Taking notes from SQ by the sounds of it ) certainly removing all the gloopy messes etc and following the current general trend in society towards being more aware of what we are eating - better, more wholesome food.

- Removing those damn V:Port boxes. They are highly annoying in PE, they're an absolute pain in Y and I think one of the main annoyances with regards to legroom if you're trying to make use of the limited space available. Surely there's been improvements to V:Port deployment etc since it came out to remove / reduce this in size? Are new A346's no better in this regard? Again, a comparison to SQ is obvious as they have a similar setup : Do SQ have these boxes?

Probably a simplistic couple of assumptions there, so feel free to knock holes in!

Thanks,

David.

To be honest I am unsure about the boxes in SIA - I have flown with them lucky enough 3 times but each time I was in first - Very impressive airline for first.

Originally posted by easygoingeezer
Lets be honest, NO economy product is brillient, the more people want to travel for next to no money the less comfortable its going to be.

I think transatlantic travel is the only product where people want
luxury and pampering for a ridiculous price.

If you buy your pies from "happy Shopper" don't expect the meat filling.

If you're flying short-haul, then less leg room is much less of an issue - and isn't that a salient point?[:#]

Hey recently had to fly BlindAir,, opps sorry RyanAir on one of their new jets. The seats are nearly on top of each other. Im only 5ft8" and I knew how compressed ham felt.

[Scrooge]

Originally posted by porsche911
Hey recently had to fly BlindAir,, opps sorry RyanAir on one of their new jets. The seats are nearly on top of each other. Im only 5ft8" and I knew how compressed ham felt.

But Ryan air goes out of their way to say they are cheap,kind of like Southwest over here,you know what you are getting when you pay for the ticket.

Originally posted by jetwet1
Alexis,just as an FYI you can book two seats in your name,one in hubbys so you get the 3 seats..you also get double the mileage and TP's.

Yes, and double the fare too...
I'm not that big, I do fit into one seat. And I never had a problem with the tray tables until I flew on the new 346.

[Scrooge]

Originally posted by Alexis

Originally posted by jetwet1
Alexis,just as an FYI you can book two seats in your name,one in hubbys so you get the 3 seats..you also get double the mileage and TP's.

Yes, and double the fare too...
I'm not that big, I do fit into one seat. And I never had a problem with the tray tables until I flew on the new 346.

Oh ok...the only reason I posted that was becuase a friend of mine who is that big was trying to find a cost effective way to fly to the UK.Two N fares are a heck of a lot cheaper than one J.

Im heading to Shanghai in Sept and will be going UC. Could in no way stand J class for 10/11 hrs.

Originally posted by porsche911
Im heading to Shanghai in Sept and will be going UC. Could in no way stand J class for 10/11 hrs.

Er, do you mean Y class???

Don't you think yourself lucky you can choose to fly UC? [?]

I do mean Y class , sorry.I am flying UC thank god. Its a business trip and therefore Im not paying , however if it was a holiday I would probably have to look at PE.
kEITH

Originally posted by porsche911
I do mean Y class , sorry.I am flying UC thank god. Its a business trip and therefore Im not paying , however if it was a holiday I would probably have to look at PE.
kEITH

I've done Y for that length of time, several times. When we were travelling with our kids, there was no option other than to do that.... wouldn't choose to though!

Hopefully the below info, can put a solution to this Y class issue.

I just flew on VS17 10/04/06 (sorry for not remembering the aircraft name!), and there were 2 centre rows (D,E,F,G) of new W seating (10 & 11) and 2 left rows (A & C) of new Y seating (52 & 53). Both new seats incorporate the same size IFE screen as used today but now have the control unit embedded below the screen instead of the armrest (Thank God!!). The backings of both seat classes are no longer light grey but a slightly polishes divetted champagne colour (like a golf ball). The W seats are now entirely out of leather includng the armrests, in a very dark violet/burgundy hue with the oddity that the exposed non leather surface is in a white/ivory paint colour. The W seat has 1 control feature for every surface plane of the seat totalling 6 controls. The new W seats are firm but comfortable, with the seat pitch the same as the old. Same can be said for the comfort of the new Y seat. The Y seating surface and coloring is nearly identical to the new 346 cabins, except for the near ivory paint used on the armrests and other metallic/plastic surfaces. Overall the new W class has a very polished and inviting look, a very decent upgrade indeed. The new Y class though looks like it has been taken out of the 70's, with its clashing of seat colours, new backing and the ivory/white accents. Only thing to be dissappointed was the size of the IFE screen was not enlarged for W. I was told by the crew that these seats will be appearing very shortly.

Thanks for the bird's eye view. I guess the new Y seat would gain if it were positioned slightly further from the seat in front........

Originally posted by sailor99
Thanks for the bird's eye view. I guess the new Y seat would gain if it were positioned slightly further from the seat in front........

If only [:#]

Originally posted by cosmokid
Both new seats incorporate the same size IFE screen as used today but now have the control unit embedded below the screen instead of the armrest (Thank God!!).

It's nice that it's no longer in the arm rest, but doesn't that now mean that people will be poking your seat to change channels?

How come they haven't installed these seats on the newest aircraft G-VWIN? [:?]

Cheers,
VS045

The IFE control unit detaches itself as in the old location, but if someone would want to be annoying then they could poke you instead. The aircraft with all these new seats if you wish to try is VWKD Miss Behavin.