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#12288 by G-VFAB
21 Apr 2006, 21:19
I used to really like the A380, but the ore i think about it the more I quite frankly don't.

I think one of the things which puts me off is the size, There's the possibility that there could be over 800 people flying together in quite a confined space when you consider how much space over 800 people need to fit into, but also I'd hate to be crew or ground staff managing that plane. I mean as a captain your fully responsible for all the crew and passengers safety - that's close to 900 people! That's alot of responsibility. Especially when the captain also has to fly the plane and consider other things!

But I'm losing my trust for airlines, they say that they won't have more than 600 on the A380, and use cleaver marketing skills such as our planes will have business suites, showers, gyms, that sort of thing, when we're all aware that this just won't happen. It's just not value-for-money, it's wasted space quite frankly! I'd much prefer if they were honest about their intentions especially for the A380 - some airlines will use the all economy config, some will use the 3 class config, It'd be nice if they were a bit more open about hte services we can expect.

There are alot of inconsistencies withing airlines and their fleet, for instance not all aircraft have the same IFE, the same seats in the same class and I don't really think that's fair. You pay exactly the same, it's a lottery as to what services you actually get. The same goes for aircraft, facilities on the A380 will be completely different to that on a 744, yet you don't know what aircraft you will get before you board, and public awareness of aircraft and their different makes is increasing.

As aircraft technology develops, so should the passengers experience and the service avaliable should develop. on the A380 I'd honestly like to see showers, I'd like to see fully flat beds. And although airlines are in a position to do this, they own' tbecause it's not cost effective. So whilst the aircraft develops the service avaliable doesn't develop at the same rate.

If VS decide to honor their deal with airbus and get their A380's I'm sure they will alter their products, UC may well just have showers and other facilities but I just feel the product isn't developing quickly enough and inconsistencies in the fleet (of any airline) make some flights a really great price, but some a waste of money in terms of the type of aircraft you fly and the type of product you receive.

In conclusion in the future I'd like to know exactly what aircraft flys the route and a price to match and exactly what product I will be paying for and a price to match. Whilst this will make it more difficult for airlines to price their product it will mean that I am more willing to pay a higher price if I know exactly what is happening.

This is just a dream, I don't expect it to become a reality. I understand that airlines are there to make money and space for showers and other facilities which take up space and weight would not be cost-efficient and bums on seats make money not showers and shops and everything else which could happen
#113437 by VS-EWR
21 Apr 2006, 21:29
Just to make you feel better, I am hearing that most airlines will only put about 500 or 600 seats on the a380 despite the ~800 capactiy. I won't mind it as long as airlines incorporate some kind of dividers that help make each long cabin into smaller nooks that will feel more private and enjoyable.
#113440 by G-VFAB
21 Apr 2006, 21:35
Yes I agree, dividing the cabin up will make it feel much less like you are on a large aircraft and more personal and intimate. However I still feel for the crew onboard, who takes utmost responsibility for ALL those passengers? I'm assuming the captain will but is that really fair? That's not actually why they went into the job, nor is it their first responsibility - flying the aircraft safely and professionally is in my view.

There are safety considerations with this type of aircraft as well - naturally flying with 800+ pax is safer because if there was an accident, which I hope doesn't happen, then there will be more to assist eachother etc.
#113446 by jerseyboy
21 Apr 2006, 21:48
Originally posted by flyingtomyego
Yes I agree, dividing the cabin up will make it feel much less like you are on a large aircraft and more personal and intimate. However I still feel for the crew onboard, who takes utmost responsibility for ALL those passengers? I'm assuming the captain will but is that really fair? That's not actually why they went into the job, nor is it their first responsibility - flying the aircraft safely and professionally is in my view.

There are safety considerations with this type of aircraft as well - naturally flying with 800+ pax is safer because if there was an accident, which I hope doesn't happen, then there will be more to assist eachother etc.
or to look at it another way 800 people to look after or even 1600 if two colideon the ground
#113449 by Richard28
21 Apr 2006, 21:57
its the ratio of staff to passengers that counts - this is regulated by law, so you'll have the same standard of safety on an A380 as a 747 or a 737.

As far as space is concerned, there is something like 30% more floor space per passenger on the A380 so there should (depending on airline config) be more room per passenger - perhaps even in Y!

As far as showers etc, as far as i am aware, no airline has promised them as yet. Airbus have marketed that airlines could install them, and airlines have said they are going to be doing new things, but the actual contents of an A380 have yet to be published (and are being kept top secret by the airlines).

As far as consistency, I agree 100%. you see a product advertised, and you want that product, with no random chance element of something different.
#113466 by Edna Cloud
21 Apr 2006, 22:43
However I still feel for the crew onboard, who takes utmost responsibility for ALL those passengers? I'm assuming the captain ...


Yes, the Captain is ultimately responsible for everyone on board the aircraft, but that responsibility is just as onerous whether there are 50 or 500 passengers. Equally, the Captain would want to ensure that everything was done so that they walk away from every flight!

EC
#113470 by mcmbenjamin
21 Apr 2006, 23:32
I think showers would be a great idea. Would enable people to skip Revials and go straight to work.

Only problem is that I assume the shower stall would be private and used for longer periods than a lav. I think there would be security issue in addition to safety. If there was exterme turb.; what would happen if the people (oh I mean person, how did that slip) in the shower fell?
#113497 by mcuth
22 Apr 2006, 00:36
All this talk of showers is leaving aside one important thing - where will all the water come from? [?]

From the Thames Water waterwise site:
Baths vs Showers

Did you know that one bath is enough for two 5-minute showers? A bath uses 80 litres of water compared to only 35 litres used by a shower. Be careful though, a power shower can use more water than a bath!


So, 35 litres of water per shower - if you limit this facility to 50 people from UC only, that's 1650 litres of water to carry just for showers for 50 people! Given that a litre of water weighs ~1kg, that's an extra 1.650 tonnes of weight on board.....

Nice idea, but doesn't seem too practical to me I'm afraid [:(]

Cheers

Michael
#113502 by G-VFAB
22 Apr 2006, 00:40
Exactly which is why even basic additional facilities - we're not talking Gym's here, or whole business centres on board we're talking a shower is heavy and completely impractical in the air. I'm concerned that whilst the planes are developing so much the passenger product is not.

In the future I don't want to know why I should fly VS or BA or whatever, I want to know wether or not I should fly Airbus or Boeing and then with what company.
#113512 by Jonathan
22 Apr 2006, 01:37
This is a great thread!! lets answer some questions and raise others!!

Sorry im going to go bottom up rather than top down!!

Mike the showers are very different to what people have at home I believe they use very little water It was shown on the flying heavy metal program (with bruce dickinson) - I think they may recycle the water too?

In terms of consistency most airlines suffer from this and besides I dont think the A380 experience in Y is going to be that much different than any other airbus/boeing in Y!

J/F is where it will differenciate especially if double beds/showers/shops or casinos make it onboard!!

In terms of load most airlines will be 550-600 seats

The notable exception being kingfisher which was talking about an all economy option (863 seats!)

Do people think that airlines will fly with the toys or that the 380 will just be a bigger jumbo!

What do people thing about the airbus hub-to-hub arguement rather than boeings point to point stratergy?

Time will tell it wont be too long now before we see a real A380 (a commercial not a test one!)
#113517 by VS-EWR
22 Apr 2006, 02:21
Originally posted by Jonathan
I think they may recycle the water too?


[:$]

Then I really wouldn't want to use them!

Although I have this fun image in my mind of having a shower during turbulance.
#113599 by willd
22 Apr 2006, 16:51
Why not wait till you have been on it before you knock it! :D
#113601 by jerseyboy
22 Apr 2006, 16:55
Originally posted by mcuth
All this talk of showers is leaving aside one important thing - where will all the water come from? [?]

From the Thames Water waterwise site:
Baths vs Showers

Did you know that one bath is enough for two 5-minute showers? A bath uses 80 litres of water compared to only 35 litres used by a shower. Be careful though, a power shower can use more water than a bath!


So, 35 litres of water per shower - if you limit this facility to 50 people from UC only, that's 1650 litres of water to carry just for showers for 50 people! Given that a litre of water weighs ~1kg, that's an extra 1.650 tonnes of weight on board.....

Nice idea, but doesn't seem too practical to me I'm afraid [:(]

Cheers

Michael

The actual shower system that has been developed is capable of using less than 2 liters of water per shower. It has more of apressurised misting rather than full on power shower effect.
Would be great for that pre arival wake up shower on board. BLISS

Cheers Wayne[:o)]
#113619 by VS045
22 Apr 2006, 18:39
Qatar Airways is only putting 450-475 seats on its 2 A380s, but their positon is different to most airlines. For example, they lose 10 million on the New York route and simply fly it for prestige. The fact that Qatar inc (the parent company) owns the airport, the airline and is the only licensed distributor for alcohol in Qatar as well as sitting on one of the largest oil reserves in the world means that they can do this unlike other cash-strapped airlines.

Cheers,
VS045
#114187 by PatDavies
25 Apr 2006, 14:07
My concern is not 799 other people on the flight; it's 799 other people queuing for immigration[:(!]
Virgin Atlantic

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