EU court blocks data deal with US immigration

So, what's this all about then...??

"The European Court of Justice has blocked an EU-US agreement that allows European airline passenger data to be transferred to the US authorities."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5028918.stm

[fozzyo]

Advanced Passenger Information.

This whole API thing always reminds me of the quote from Jeremy Clarkson "when you enter the free world and leave America".

Mat xxx

I was just reading this this morning. 34 pieces of info about every passenger - that would take some going.

Name, address, telephone number, passport number, address in US, c/c used, date purchased, number of times flown before ??, date purchased, any amendments made .... struggling now [?]

David

[fozzyo]

And lets not forget that most of that information is gathered when you reach immigration.

Can it really be that long until they do away with the Visa Waiver Program and do something like the Aussies do?

Mat

Originally posted by fozzyo

Can it really be that long until they do away with the Visa Waiver Program and do something like the Aussies do?

Mat

Having never been to Aus can you say what the difference is? Better or worse system.

Cheers
Iain

[fozzyo]

Originally posted by iforres1
Having never been to Aus can you say what the difference is? Better or worse system.

Cheers
Iain

Sorry, yes - should have explained.

From the website:

Australia«s Electronic Travel Authority system (ETA) is the most advanced and streamlined travel authorisation system in the world. It is the modern-day replacement for a visa label or a stamp in a passport, although these are still used where the ETA is not yet available.

ETA enables visitors from passport-approved countries to obtain authority to enter Australia at the same time as they book their travel arrangements. There is no need for the traveller to complete an application form for a visa.

Details here and here.

Mat xxx

Not to forget that the European Court have given governments until September to work something out. So API is here for a while at least (and like the other threads, I am also mysteriously female when I check what VS holds!).

I used to be blase about computers and data, after all we have to get used to the fact that data about us all over the place, and about so many things. But I'm increasingly concerned that this proliferation of data is either unnecessary, or in the case of identity theft or mis-identification simply downright dangerous. Nor do I believe that API makes me safer ...

I hope there's no return to visas and that the US and Europeans can agree a sensible compromise.

[Bazz]

Originally posted by fozzyo
And lets not forget that most of that information is gathered when you reach immigration.

One of the conditions being imposed was that the European Airlines should provide the API required to the US Gov within fifteen minutes of the aircraft taking off for the US.

So does this mean that anyone travelling to the US in the coming weeks can look forward to long immigration lines and grillings.

Surely that is guaranteed - along with a surly expression. API or not.

I think it won't make any difference as I think that the decision allows the airlines to continue providing information under the current terms until September.

Originally posted by fozzyo
And lets not forget that most of that information is gathered when you reach immigration.

Can it really be that long until they do away with the Visa Waiver Program and do something like the Aussies do?

Mat

What do they do?

Er, sorry, just read to the end of Mat's post!

One thing I found disturbing is that one of the details given over are your credit card details. Apart from the fact this opens a whole can of worms security-wise, why on earth should they have access to those? Can't help but think it's almost a scam, but the authorities seem to be able to do just what they want, as long as they say it's in the name of homeland security. How about the security of the people visiting - visiting and supporting the tourist industry????

Much as I love the US, I often feel most unwelcome by all this sort of stuff....

OK, you can all wake up now;[}:)] I've finished...

I don't know where they're getting credit card details from, as that's certainly not one of the things collected and sent to the US in API!!

[Bazz]

Definitely mentioned in the piece Lipstick... puzzling isn't it? I can't see why they would require CC info anyway?

I realise that the MEP's have voted on this and that its all coming from Europe etc etc etc however - if we as individual passengers are happy to give this information to the airlines and happy for them to pass it on to the US Immigration Authorities then what's the problem?? If this means that we get, say a one hour wait at immigration rather than 3 then I am quite happy to give it? And where has this credit card stuff come from - there is nothing in the current API on the VS site that requests this?

When i went to u.s.a last year my first time i was surprised how strict it was and that even us citizens re entering the country seem to get a simmilar grilling to non us citizens![:?]

So often US immigration is not about letting people in or keeping people out it is about extracting fees / fines from passengers. Maybe having the CC information is about them having a charging method should they discover any transgressions.

Phil

Edited to add that this is not entirely a serious suggestion as to why they require CC - just in case anyone thinks I'm serious.[:#]

I would presume that the credit card info relates to the source of funds used to buy the ticket - and hence may be used to identify if tickets were sourced from known/monitored third parties.

Originally posted by Lipstick
I don't know where they're getting credit card details from, as that's certainly not one of the things collected and sent to the US in API!!

True - it's not something that's asked for in API. Which leaves us with the possibility of our details being procured by some other means. I was glad to see I wasn't the only one who noticed cc details in the article - for a moment there, I thought I was going doo-lally tap![ii]

Originally posted by oxmatt
I would presume that the credit card info relates to the source of funds used to buy the ticket - and hence may be used to identify if tickets were sourced from known/monitored third parties.

That did occur to me - but surely we'd be covered by the freedom of information act here? And if not, then all this telling us not to divulge card details, PIN numbers, inside leg measurements - what's the point????[:w]

Originally posted by catsilversword

Originally posted by Lipstick
I don't know where they're getting credit card details from, as that's certainly not one of the things collected and sent to the US in API!!

True - it's not something that's asked for in API. Which leaves us with the possibility of our details being procured by some other means. I was glad to see I wasn't the only one who noticed cc details in the article - for a moment there, I thought I was going doo-lally tap![ii]

And that's a good point, I've probably missed where it says in the booking process that your CC details will be transfered to other agencies and outside the EU (though that's the point of the EU-US agreement isn't it). Shouldn't we be told what VS is doing with our private information whenever it is transferred, not just the boxes for API during the booking process?

Having prepared API data for charter flights my company has operated, credit card information was not amongst the information that we were required to supply. The information supplied is sufficient to verify identity against law enforcement databases in the US plus the address info.

Originally posted by NYCFlyer
Having prepared API data for charter flights my company has operated, credit card information was not amongst the information that we were required to supply. The information supplied is sufficient to verify identity against law enforcement databases in the US plus the address info.

Which still leaves us with the question of 'how then'?

I know that if you pay by credit card for your tickets - and believe me a lot of people still pay by cash - the cc number has to go into the booking, but that isn't sent over to the US either.....unless they actually sit around going into everyones PNR but i can't see that happening!

I say we should start to do the same here in Europe to give them a bit of their own!

1) Before Customers travel take down the following useless information

- What they had for breakfast
- what Football team they support (if they know what propper football is?)
- When was the last time they had a mcDonalds
- what is the best Starbucks Beverage

2) Train Immigration officials to be rude, give them a uniform for the power trip

3) Fingerprint everyone (every finger not jusrt two) and with real INK

4) Take a photo and then display it in the arrivals hall and sell them as key rings etc..like theme parks do "Ive visited europe"

5) Issue customs forms and stamp every other one for a search and anything which can be purchased in the country they are visiting fine them!

Just an idea as at the moment the USA is a great country and the people are good but you feel like a criminal when you enter - I have never seen a sign for Guantanamo bay entering the USA but may as well be?