New Aircraft?

Originally posted by jetwet1
The 345 has proven to be a dog of a plane,in itself it is a nice aircraft,however with the amount of pax you can fit on it it just cannot make money.The 772 ER has close to the same range and can carry more pax and cargo.

Im looking for a A330 order,but who knows [?]

Do you mean the 772LR?

Originally posted by VS-EWR

Originally posted by jetwet1
The 345 has proven to be a dog of a plane,in itself it is a nice aircraft,however with the amount of pax you can fit on it it just cannot make money.The 772 ER has close to the same range and can carry more pax and cargo.

Im looking for a A330 order,but who knows [?]

Do you mean the 772LR?

Well these are the figures according to the Airbus and Boeing websites

max range max take off weight

A340-500 8670nm 820,000lbs
777-200LR 9420nm 766,000lbs
777-200ER 7730nm 656,000lbs

I personally couldnt see VS changing any of the 346 orders to the 345, is there any route that VS really need the 345 range for? It cant do LON/SYD non stop, and even the 772LR is not seemingly capable with a max payload otherwise I think we would have seen QF order it by now.

My money is on either an A330 order for routes like DXB and possibly some new possibilities in the middle east, it would have the range for quite a few of the b&s route as well. I think a 777 order could be possible too, but again would they need the capabilities of the 777LR or even the ER? All they would gain over the A330 would be the extra capacity I think.

I guess we will all know soon enough [?]

I can't really see VS ordering the A345 - LHR is not very well placed for A345 use - there's nowhere that is able to make good use of its range that is worthwhile going to.

VS.

As a comparison the B777-300ER figures are a range 7880nm & MTOW 775000lbs.The A345 is going to be replaced by the B773ER on the DXB-JFK route later in the year with EK for obvious reasons & i think you'll find that QF are seriously looking at the B772LR. When fitted with the 3 aux fuel tanks SYD-LHR is possible & no doubt plenty of people would be willing to pay for it.

In normal airline use the A345 vs B772LR & A346 vs B773ER race is a done deal. Airbus have admitted this and whilst their offer of discounting the price to cover any advantage the B777 has is good for the buyer, it'll do nothing for the future resale value. Fuel efficiency is the make or break of an airline now & the B777 is the most economical. Reliability is also an issue, the A346 was rushed into service & suffered accordingly, hence the delay of the entry into service of the A345. If you need proof of the competition look at CX, they have 3 A346's on 5 year leases from ILFC & have just ordered 18 B773ER's. Of the 18, 4 are to be leased from ILFC, so do you think they're keeping the A346.

The B777 order that is on all VS watchers minds (it's no secret that the order is for 14 B773ER & 6 B772LR), is strongly rumoured to be for Qatar Airways, but could be for British Airways (they aren't in a position to go public on such a large order). It could be another top up order for Emirates, after all they've made no secret of their dissatisfaction with the A346HGW.

For VS, my money is on the A330 & the retention of all the existing A346 delivery slots (with the exception of a few going to Oz). As stated in the various discussions the A330 fit's in with the existing fleet & the VS operating/engineering crews.

Not long until Farnborough & we'll all know for sure!!!!

Looks like my money was safe, order for 14 A330's to be announced at Farnborough with delivery starting early 2008. I think there are interesting times ahead, more regional bases would be very suitable for the VS new family member.

[Decker]

Are these the ones with the really dire PE?

Thanks Denzil

VS.

I personally look forward to the a330s. They will allow VS to expand to airports that were too small for the 747 and a340, such as Bermuda! Although, shall we make bets that EWR will get the A330?

Originally posted by Decker
Are these the ones with the really dire PE?

In the sense that these are the ones with all the PE on the main (only!) deck, yes.

But me thinks you're getting confused with the existing A340-300s.

How nice the planes are depends on how the airline chooses to fit them out.

For example, a real annoyance of the crew on the UA 777s is that the #2 (C cabin) galley also forms the cross-passage at the L2 (usual boarding) door. This means that crew trying to do the pre-departure bevvies for the C pax are often playing dodge the boarding pax with carryons and rollaboards.

The airline could have shifted the galley and provided a cross-passage here, but that would have cost a row of seats.

I'm sure that VS will make sure their new toys have the latest in seating, and plenty of gadgets. Just a shame they didn't choose the 777, as the UCS config on that (on AirNZ's 777s) is much nicer than on the VS Airbus fleet.

Cheers,
Mike

[Decker]

Thanks Mike - I was indeed confusing the issue. I'm not quite as au fait with model numbers etc as some here .

Thanks Mike - I was indeed confusing the issue. I'm not quite as au fait with model numbers etc as some here . (posted by Decker)

Dear, dear, I must buy you an anorak for Christmas

For Y, I think the airbuses are much better as the 2-4-2 is a much better layout in my opinion. Also, 2-4-2 in PE doesn't look very good.

VS.

[Decker]

Originally posted by Denzil
I think there are interesting times ahead, more regional bases would be very suitable for the VS new family member.

I would say "spill" but I'm sure you will when you can .

Could it be that these A330's are just a form of compensation for the dealy of the A380 and a form of compensation due to all the problems with the A346. Or is this just a replacement order for the cancellation of the A380's? So if this is the case could Virgin still make an annoucement for an order of 777's.

[preiffer]

I'd say an order (assuming they're not just options) for 14 x A330's is too significant to be considering that as an ADDITION to A380's.

Originally posted by preiffer
I'd say an order (assuming they're not just options) for 14 x A330's is too significant to be considering that as an ADDITION to A380's.

I agree. We'll probably see some spin, along the lines that VS will retain options for the A380, but convert the existing firm orders to A330s

Will be interesting to see on what routes they are placed.

I'd guess a mix of LHR (for east coast USA and India/Dubai) and LGW for new Bucket & Spade routes.

[Scrooge]

Originally posted by VS-EWR
I personally look forward to the a330s. They will allow VS to expand to airports that were too small for the 747 and a340, such as Bermuda! Although, shall we make bets that EWR will get the A330?

And all the other New York airports as well [:p].

It's starnge I would of thought that there would be a ton of threads over at A'Net by now with people arguing over what orders will be made and of course which is better,Airbus or Boeing.

There have been some. They're pretty much pointless since 99% of the information isn't based on fact.

[Scrooge]

Yeah,well less than two weeks to go before we find out anything for sure.

Originally posted by djuluvmee
Could it be that these A330's are just a form of compensation for the dealy of the A380 and a form of compensation due to all the problems with the A346. Or is this just a replacement order for the cancellation of the A380's? So if this is the case could Virgin still make an annoucement for an order of 777's.

Seems like the 777 story is less and less likely. I feel sure that ordering A330s in place of 380s benefits VS and Airbus and get's both out of likely penalties for either cancelling or delays. So a good face save for both. Besides, a 330-300 has about the same pax capacity as a 777-200 so is a worthy alternative.

As to routes, 14 330s is a lot more than 6 definite 380s, so I'd like to see these used flexibly across the US: to open up more destinations and to use on some of the lower yield existing flights. As well as some other destinations in India (Hyderabad/Chennai would be good) and the Caribbean. We'll just have to wait and see

So would this be a A330-200 or a A330-300? Also do you think they will have V-Port?

Nick
PS
Sad, I know but any idea the engines they would choose GE, RR or PW. I would say GE...

Unless VS develops a new IFE system by then, the new aircraft will almost definitely have v:port.

VS.

Originally posted by VSMAD
So would this be a A330-200 or a A330-300? Also do you think they will have V-Port?

Nick

I would have thought the 300 as it is a good replacement for the A343 and could be virtually interchangeable even on routes if configured the same.

Then again if they want an additional 2000km range maybe the 200 is better but my money is on the A333

Phil

Phil

I'd also say the -300 as it is a lot more flexible within VS' network even if it can't reach some of the furthest destinations.

VS.

[Scrooge]

A little late night thinking.

If Denzil is right and 14 A330's are ordered where will they go [?]

The 300 model can carry approx 300 pax in a 3 cabin config,the 200 approx. 250 (figures of the top of my head please feel free to correct me) so with VS loading up the airbus aircraft at LHR do you think they would go there covering the shorter flights say east coast USleaving the 346 to fly the long haul US West coast etc,then have the LHR 744's go over to LGW/MAN to deal with the B&S expansion? also im guessing they will keep V:Port on the 744's so LGW/MAN pax will be a little happier.

Been rumoured for a long time that making LHR an Airbus only base would make good sense ... concentrates resources in maintenance and other areas around planes of one type or another. So may be likely - the 330-300 could easily do the East coast, but also the West coast of the US, Dubai, South Africa among others.

Of course, that would mean good news for LGW flyers as VPort equipped 747s could be moved around to Gatwick and Manchester. I can't imagine the new planes would be equipped with anything but ...

But, we're all assuming this as some sort of fait accompli, we'll still have to wait for news