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#130689 by Edna Cloud
03 Aug 2006, 21:07
It is also worth mentioning that the reasons people fly Virgin is because of our legendary service: our staff, Clubhouses, limo transfers, the Upper Class Suite, onboard bar, in-flight massage, etc. The amenity kit needs to be seen in this context.


This does seem rather smug doesn't it? I know that if I complained to a member of cabin crew about the kit and they said that I should view it in the context of all the other elements of the Upper Class service, I would be jolly miffed!

If you look at the list given, the staff is a variable (some are great, some grate), the limos are only for some fare classes, the Clubhouses vary widely too. Yes, LHR is great, but what about other airports? In any case, many people do not have (much) time to spend in the Clubhouses. The in-flight massage is a lottery (you probably only have a one in four chance of getting a treatment on a reasonably full flight), and not at all on LGW flights.

The elements of the Upper Class experience listed which can be seen to apply consistently to all passengers are the bar, the bed and the bag. It is the little bag of goodies which the passenger can take away and provide free advertising by re-using it. If it is a real treasure, it will be given as a gift thereby spreading the advertising; others will aspire to the sort of travel where this is the freebie.

However, it seems the die is cast, Virgin are confident that no-one will choose to fly with another airline over this issue. Maybe they are right, but I hope that someone does have the courage to listen to the complaints and say, "we got it wrong".

We'll see...

Edna
#130704 by honey lamb
03 Aug 2006, 23:21
Originally posted by Edna Cloud
It is also worth mentioning that the reasons people fly Virgin is because of our legendary service: our staff, Clubhouses, limo transfers, the Upper Class Suite, onboard bar, in-flight massage, etc. The amenity kit needs to be seen in this context.


This does seem rather smug doesn't it? I know that if I complained to a member of cabin crew about the kit and they said that I should view it in the context of all the other elements of the Upper Class service, I would be jolly miffed!

If you look at the list given, the staff is a variable (some are great, some grate), the limos are only for some fare classes, the Clubhouses vary widely too. Yes, LHR is great, but what about other airports? In any case, many people do not have (much) time to spend in the Clubhouses. The in-flight massage is a lottery (you probably only have a one in four chance of getting a treatment on a reasonably full flight), and not at all on LGW flights.

The elements of the Upper Class experience listed which can be seen to apply consistently to all passengers are the bar, the bed and the bag. It is the little bag of goodies which the passenger can take away and provide free advertising by re-using it. If it is a real treasure, it will be given as a gift thereby spreading the advertising; others will aspire to the sort of travel where this is the freebie.

However, it seems the die is cast, Virgin are confident that no-one will choose to fly with another airline over this issue. Maybe they are right, but I hope that someone does have the courage to listen to the complaints and say, "we got it wrong".

We'll see...

Edna


I agree exactly. If I travel UC generally it is a Z fare and therefore no limo. Even if I had a D or J fare, no limo for me on the outbound because of where I live and if I have a connecting flight to a non VS destination, no limo there either. If my connecting flight to LHR is delayed I might have only time to grab a quick bite in the Clubhouse or maybe have no time at all and have to go straight to the gate. I don't always want to go to the bar. I have had a glass of champagne on arrival, a G&T (and sometimes two) after take-off and perhaps some wine with my meal. If it is a short flight or I am driving on arrival then I don't want any more/any. The IFBT is a lottery on LHR flights - I had one treatment out of my last four sectors - and non-existent out of LGW and MAN.

So what does that leave? The staff, which 9.5 times out of 10 are excellent but every so often there is an incident either on the grond or in-flight which mars the whole experience; the Suite which too can have its foibles - when everything is working and it is not worn/scribbled on/dirty it is great; the amenity kit which has gone from innovative and excellent with the goodies found therein, to pretentious with the OB sets, although I now find I am pining after them, to frankly insulting to both cabin crew who have to offer them and to passengers who have come to expect to be valued and pampered and have been sold a pup! [V]

Not everybody gets the full works of the UC experience but what they do get let it be something memorable - and that includes the amenity kits
#130706 by preiffer
03 Aug 2006, 23:29
Originally posted by mike-smashing
Originally posted by porsche911
* Preiffer's red pillows and flowers on the bar.
They're not my flowers on the bar - I couldn't stand them [:p]

The little red hot-water bottles that lasted about 6 months, though... [:w][V][n]
#130707 by mike-smashing
03 Aug 2006, 23:34
Originally posted by preiffer
The little red hot-water bottles that lasted about 6 months, though... [:w][V][n]


I'd forgotten about those... they were a bit of a gimmick though, weren't they? [8D]

Mike
#130711 by preiffer
03 Aug 2006, 23:38
Well, they were also released at the UCS launch party, so I'd say they were *supposed* to be "part of the setup".


Just about to book my next paid biz class flight to SFO on an airline other than VS for the first time...

...never thought I'd see the day [n]
#130726 by Howard Long
04 Aug 2006, 02:09
Originally posted by vscss
We were finding that passengers frequently left the old kits behind and discarded many of their contents. This was wasteful and not environmentally friendly, but it was also expensive and at odds with our Manifesto goal of driving efficiency and effectiveness. In fact we had lots of negative comments from staff and passengers alike complaining about the waste. We know that only 40% of items in the packs were used.


I don't believe this at all! But then there's lies, damned lies and statistics.

If this were the case, I'd expect to see plenty of amenity kits (opened or unopened) left on board while awaiting to deplane. That is most definitely not the case as a self-confessed minesweeper of the kits on the dozens of VS UC flights I've taken. In my experience I'd hazard a generous guess that 10% of kits are left. OK let's be really generous. Let's say 20%.

You must be careful how you read that 40%: If you re-read it what they must mean is that only 40% of the items of the odd kits left on board were used. In which case I think the statement's highly misleading. Let's say 20% of the kits remain on board, and 60% of that is unused. Therefore 88% of the total kits are used, not 40%.

Admittedly, at times it seems that most of those are kept in an overflowing cupboard at my abode.

Just my $0.02.

Cheers, Howard
#130728 by Scrooge
04 Aug 2006, 02:42
Well time for my $0.02....again [:I]

Let's just take the fact's that VS has presented to us at face value,so let's say that with the switch to the new pack's VS is now saving one mill a year.Great [y],fantasic [y],brilliant idea [y],the problem come's when you have someone like Paul who take's lord know's how many flight's a year saying enough how long does it take for VS to lose the one mill they just saved..whats the phrase,penny wise pound foolish?
#130792 by ChuckC
04 Aug 2006, 12:40
Originally posted by jetwet1
whats the phrase,penny wise pound foolish?


Dave,
I do believe that, as we say in the States, "you've hit the nail on the head!"[y]

Chuck-
#130796 by fozzyo
04 Aug 2006, 12:53
For me this isn't the sole reason people would look to fly elsewhere, MaxJet being one of the biggest competitors at the moment on cost and with a few more good TR's a strong competition. But the overall degredation of the product over the last two years - which is very sad.

Definately agree with your 2c Dave.
#130802 by Decker
04 Aug 2006, 13:08
4 packs out in today's post. Couple left if any more "special flight" takers...
#130831 by ade99
04 Aug 2006, 14:48
Wouldn't it be great if we found out who sent the memo and then sent her or him our unused or left over scrooge packs with a standard letter expressing our unhappiness and hoping that she could recycle or find a use for them around The Office to save even more than 1m?
#130833 by porsche911
04 Aug 2006, 15:03
Are we all not panicking a little - Ok I have not been on VS since Feb to Barbados and was lucky enough to have been on the 747-400 with V-Port with seats upstairs - Really was a great flight except for the food - it was bad in and out - if you compare with SIA or Thai the food was awful. ONly thng I would really say was maybe it was my taste or whatever but at the very best it was average. How much does it cost to run such a fantastic club house in heathrow and gatwick - surely we could all do with just a standard club house like BA and take the benifits in the air instead - max 1/1/2 hrs in club house - min 7 hrs in the air - come on Virgin get your act together - concentrate on the basics that made you one of the best - great food , seats, great vod , in fact everything in the air -
#130834 by porsche911
04 Aug 2006, 15:07
I am sure the new BA Terrace club house did not cost anything like the Virgin one in heathrow. It must cost a fortune to run - all we need is a classic club house and the benifits in the sky
#130906 by preiffer
04 Aug 2006, 23:12
Just to clarify - my issue is not actually with the packs at this point - it's with the sheer arrogance that is displayed in that ridiculous note to staff.

BAD show, VS. [n]
#130910 by slinky09
05 Aug 2006, 00:07
Originally posted by porsche911
I am sure the new BA Terrace club house did not cost anything like the Virgin one in heathrow. It must cost a fortune to run - all we need is a classic club house and the benifits in the sky


Last time I was in the woman providing my gents buff and cleanse said that there were 200 staff to run the club house ... that's a lot
#130912 by easygoingeezer
05 Aug 2006, 00:21
It is important we iron this out because we are not going to reintroduce the old amenity kit. Plus we can benefit from a significant saving of over £1m by eliminating waste, so we need to ask for your continued support with this.


IF there were to be another paragraph to this letter it would read "and f*** what any of the passengers think"
#130918 by nafanny29
05 Aug 2006, 03:11
As I have said earlier in this thread its a shame VA doesnt realise that they are "penny wise pound foolish"

One plus is more reward seats will be available in UC though! Maybe even on the LGW routes at this rate LOL
#130919 by Scrooge
05 Aug 2006, 03:22
Originally posted by nafanny29
As I have said earlier in this thread its a shame VA doesnt realise that they are "penny wise pound foolish"



A very wise man once said that [y]....about 10 posts ago [:p]

Originally posted by preiffer
Just to clarify - my issue is not actually with the packs at this point - it's with the sheer arrogance that is displayed in that ridiculous note to staff.

BAD show, VS. [n]


Well we had a pretty swift reaction from VS on the GNF's,why the feet dragging on this,in real terms one mill is not that much [?]
#130929 by Littlejohn
05 Aug 2006, 08:24
It's the Minister of the InteriorÕs anniversary today, so to celebrate 11 years of being together we have decided to go off to a rather posh hotel, have a great meal, and so that we donÕt have to worry about driving we have booked a room. It is quite expensive as one would expect, so I will be very fed up if:

1) There are no flowers in the room.
2) The bed isnÕt made inviting with some cushions scattered over it.
3) There are small, thin towels in the bathroom
4) If there is a big tube of cheap soap/shampoo/conditioner screwed to the wall so that people donÕt nick the toiletries.

Of course, customer feedback through focus groups would indicate that none of the above is necessary to most customers; I donÕt need any of it. The flowers make you sneeze, the cushions get in the way at bed time, most of the towels do not get used, and nearly all the toiletries are left behind by all but the cheapest of customers. But never the less, being used to receiving them, I would be less than happy to find they are not there.

On the other hand we might find the following:

1) A small arrangement of flowers on the table by the window to add an ambiance of summer when we arrive.
2) A few chocolates which tell us the hotel is grateful that we are staying with them.
3) The bed is ÔdecoratedÕ to bring a coordinated elegance to the bedroom.
4) There is the option for me not have my towels washed if I would prefer that to be the case (I know you have views on this one Decker!) but nevertheless a big pile of large, fluffy towels.
5) A small selection of toiletries in the bathroom, with a note (or something in the hotel guide) that tells me I can get a razor, some shave cream, etc if I need them.

When we eat, no doubt the pudding will be presented with a little garnish. I never eat the garnish, and in this I suspect I am not alone. I suppose it would actually be quite sensible, given most people return the garnish therefore clearly donÕt want it, to cut it - NOT!

Come on VS. Your prices are not maxjet, but lots of people still fly with you. Think why - it is not just the substantive benefits Ð club house, flat bed. It is the small touches Ð crew, flowers on the bar, cushions on the seat, a kit with a designerÕs name on it, that VS edgy Ôsomething intangibleÕÉ. People are paying more for an exclusive service. And in my book, exclusive is synonymous with small touches. That is why the clubhouse is so good Ð the leather seats, games room, treatments, retro design, etc is not necessary in an airport lounge. But all this is nevertheless important to customers. So why treat the aircraft cabin differently?

Cut the small touches, and VS sure as hell better cut prices. An exclusive hotel charges more than a perfectly good, perfectly comfortable, perfectly clean and friendly B&B. This is for a reason Ð and it ainÕt about the size of the bed!

Give us back our garnish!
#130932 by DragonLady
05 Aug 2006, 08:38
Happy anniversary to you and the Interior Minister Sailor.Hope the meal and hotel pass muster.
Julie
#130942 by maz
05 Aug 2006, 10:41
Thanks Decker! Kits arrived today(great service!) - now just looking forward to the trip, roll on November!
#130964 by fozzyo
05 Aug 2006, 12:58
Happy Anniversary Jeremy!

A great comparison to what VS are currently doing and their attitude.
#130968 by PVGSLF
05 Aug 2006, 13:11
Originally posted by sailor99
... Give us back our garnish!



[oo][y] Well summed up sailor!
#130973 by Wolves27
05 Aug 2006, 14:05
Congratulations Jeremy to you and yours.

Very good post too, succinctly put and I know thats how I feel too. You always throw those cusions on the floor but I like them on the bed when I arrive.

BTW, I do eat the garnish. I love a bit of parsley [:p]

Dean
Virgin Atlantic

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