Social psychology: VS don't get it

Originally posted by frangipan
And please don't bring up the risible canard about the Scrooge Pack's introduction as having anything to do with environmentalism. That's enough to make anyone retch!

[y][:$]

PS- BRILLIANT first post frangipan

[RichardMannion]

Originally posted by rcslt

Originally posted by frangipan
And please don't bring up the risible canard about the Scrooge Pack's introduction as having anything to do with environmentalism. That's enough to make anyone retch!

[y][:$]

PS- BRILLIANT first post frangipan

Now where is that post where someone calculated the number of trees that VS (or any other big airline) would need to plant daily to be carbon neutral in regards to the Co2 used by the planes....

Thanks,
Richard

Sorry if it is a little controversial for a site aimed at VS fans, but I care not two figs for the VS brand. I don't earn anything out of it, so why should I? It just so happens that I preferred flying VS to other brands. However, I do care that when we (we being my company) pay out the 'thousands' you mention, I get what I think I have paid for. I am afraid that in these days of escalating fuel costs airlines are trimming left, right and centre. As a business man I understand that. However, also as a business man, I understand that the risk is that your loyal customers may, as a result, vote with their feet. Now who knows if this is happening at VS. One would hope that the bean counters know, but I am of course not privy to such information. However, what I do know is that all of a sudden there is reward availability and no full flights in UC (On the routes I do). Sorry, but this is not a good sign. It seems to me, as the bloke that is paying the bills, that the trimming at VS is going beyond other airlines

The point about the amenity kits is, as you say trite and irrelevant in itself. However, in conjunction with the rest of the cut backs it ceases to be so. And here is the nub. I can fly to JFK for £1200 with BA while the VS fare is £2100. I can fly to DFW with BA for £1350, or to LAS with VS for in excess of £5000 (the aim if ABQ in my case so these are the nearest relevant locations). I have a fair few miles and plenty of status with VS and next to none with BA. I am a regular contributor to a VS related site. So you donÕt get a whole lot more VS aligned customers than me. But still I have chosen BAÉ, and AA.

On the other hand, your point about cabin crew is spot on. I have certainly seen this happen, and my thoughts on the matter would require me to use language unbecoming. But excuse me for saying so, did anyone here indicate they treated cabin crew like dirt with out being jumped in by others?

Laura I agree, there is to much moaning in this world and it costs nothing to be civil and polite.

This site is a predominantly pro Virgin site and I doubt there is a single member who would disrespect cabin crew.

However, an Upper Class ticket cost a hell of a lot and the stinge pack is rubbish and tacky.

Critisism on this subject is constructive and bourne of love and concern for an admired Virgin product.

Originally posted by RichardMannion


Now where is that post where someone calculated the number of trees that VS (or any other big airline) would need to plant daily to be carbon neutral in regards to the Co2 used by the planes....

Thanks,
Richard

Cant find that - but you can calculate your own personal CO2 emissions in relation to trees here[y]

[preiffer]

I love it.

A J fare to SFO will cost me £6,700 return, and I'm to be GRATEFUL that I receive an envelope with some socks in, and a toothbrush in the bog if I need it... [?]



(For the sake of clarity, I do not believe ANY of the recent service "enhancements" are the fault of any crewmember, nor would I ever condone rude behaviour towards them.

To be honest though Laura, I'm not sure anyone was ever referring to crew when it came to any of these recent threads about the latest money saving schemes - so you may have struck a little off the mark)

Originally posted by preiffer
I love it.

A J fare to SFO will cost me £6,700 return, and I'm to be GRATEFUL that I receive an envelope with some socks in, and a toothbrush in the bog if I need it... [?]

Don't get your hopes up. I was on the VS19 in UC (with miles, admittedly) last week..there were a whopping two toothbrushes available in the toilets. Get 'em while you can!

Originally posted by MarkJ
The issues arise however when we feel that the standard of service is dropping or that penny pinching where it should not be happening is getting beyond a joke - none of us wants to use other airlines when VS flys the route but price and service and facilities all play a part in that choice - OK so at £300 return Y if VS take the Lewis duck out of the amenity kit then sad as it is - its one of those things - but when you are paying 2,3, 4 THOUSAND POUNDS then I think its right and proper to expect those extra touches - amenity kits, flowers, pillows, being called you your name, priority boarding, luggage priority that comes with the price paid!!

Well said MarkJ you hit the nail right on the head,I couldn't have said it better myself. [^][^][^] [y][y][y]

This thread is a great read, and I agree that those little touches make the UC product what it is. It's a bit like a movie, sure the making of the movie would be a lot cheaper without seemingly insignificant special effects, extra pieces of furniture on the set etc. But in the long term it is little touches like that, which subconciously have an impact on the viewers judgement, which make the person give good reviews of the film, and want to watch the film again just like a VS customer would like to fly again and give good reviews. Then in the long term, the profit is greater.

It is a rather depressing way of looking at it, but if these recent VS ways continue, then eventually it will get critically bad and the airline will have to turn it around again. However, none of us want to see that and it can still be easily prevented.

Regards.

[ChuckC]

Originally posted by RichardMannion

Originally posted by rcslt

Originally posted by frangipan
And please don't bring up the risible canard about the Scrooge Pack's introduction as having anything to do with environmentalism. That's enough to make anyone retch!

[y][:$]

PS- BRILLIANT first post frangipan

Now where is that post where someone calculated the number of trees that VS (or any other big airline) would need to plant daily to be carbon neutral in regards to the Co2 used by the planes....

Thanks,
Richard

... or the number of trees to be planted to replace all those dreary snooze envelopes that J pax are discarding as we speak ...[V]

Chuck-

Laura,

Could I ask with due respect, is this friend you ? [B)]

David

(off to hide now [:w])

Originally posted by xenole
VA could probably save a fortune on all these focus groups etc by logging onto this site and simply asking the forumites what is good, bad, needs changing etc......

Isn't it a sad fact though, that companies, in general, consistently refuse to ask the people who either use their services (or do the jobs)???? Why is there this blindness????

Originally posted by sailor99

Originally posted by frangipan
unless I called myself a "consultant" and charged them 150k for it!

And the problem is...?[}:)]

Surely the going rate is nearer 250k??? [}:)]

My travel is always at my own expense, since I don't travel for work. I agree with the comments that there's no need to be anything other than polite to staff - I know how I feel when people are rude to me. But sorry - as I DO fund my own travel - then surely it's not unreasonable to want the odd frill thrown in? VS isn't a budget airline, so it shouldn't get off on trimming stuff. If customers choose not to take the amenity kits (and I, for one, always take mine) - then it's their choice - I'm sure it's still factored into the cost and you don't get the option of a reduction or refund it you don't take it.

For so many of us, the flight is part of a holiday. I don't like the idea that penny-pinching is going on - especially not when fares continue to rise to steadily.

Laura, sorry, but I have to agree with the majority here. You are indeed correct top say that people should not be rude or demeaning to staff, and I can't argue with that. But that's not the point of the original post.

The point was that when VA started, they were up against the 'big boys' and had to do something to differentaite themselves in a busy market. That difference was the extras and special touched, not just in Upper, that you only got with VA. Many of us have been fans of the whole VA experience for years, and expect that special difference that makes VA what it is. If the difference no longer exists, then why should I pay more than VAs competitors charge, for a product that is no longer unique? Its a very short termist view to save a few pounds per passenger, and lose thousands of pounds of revenue as a result.

Lets hope that someone at VA reads this thread that's in a position to do something about it.

Just read this fantastic thread, brilliant post frangipan[y].

Just thought I might even out the balance Laura, I would imagine 99% of Cabin Crew do stand for eight hours with a pleasant smile on their face and are polite and helpfull to all they meet.

However just like passengers are all different some rude some very polite, the same applies to cabin crew.

This isn't me banging my drum its from actual personal experience, I have had exemplary service and sullen indifferent surly service on VA flights in all cabin classes. Cabin crew can be quite rude and condescending as well as passengers. I have always put it down to them having an off day or prehaps had to deal with other less polite and less loyal passengers, having said that when I am going to work I leave my bad karma at home and I don't transfer my frustrations from one bad customer on to the next innocent one that comes along.

This thread is getting better & better I'm loving it.

Wow what a great thread!

I have been sensing this for a while on this site now and there is no doubt the bean counters have had an effect of even the most hardcore VS fans on here.

I first flew Virgin a couple of years ago after stumbling across a cheap(ish) fair to Boston. About 5 mins later i found this site which confirmed in my mind i had made the correct choice. They only had the suite on 1 or 2 planes when i flew and was lucky enough to get a suite plane on the way out. There was no doubt in my mind that VS had the best product on the market, by far. A couple of years on I have just recently booked on BA's summer sale to Toronto in J. 2 years ago i would have flown with VS (certainly not BA) to NYC or BOS and then connect up. Not this time. BA are A LOT cheaper and this time i am more than willing to give it a go. In my mind the "scrooge packs" were the last straw. A paper envelope, come on thats just plain cheap. No wonder some FA are embarrased to hand these things out. If i pay even a Z fare i dont expect to have a cut price service, Ryanair and Easyjet fine, you pay little and you get little, but for £1200-2000 i expect a red pillow and flowers. I can't help but feel VS have put too much into the clubhouse and not enough into the product in the air. There is no doubt there has been a large decrease in the love for VS from my point of view which a couple of years ago i thought would never happen.

So for the next trip BA it is....they are cheap and sure dont give me any less than VS so worth a try, if its worth it or not then I guess I will find out soon.

[Scrooge]

The interesting thing to me is that VS came out with the "we want to get more J flyers" then almost immediately started cutting back on the "extras" onboard the aircraft.

As I said above,Laura I agree with you,the crew is not to blame,over the last year they have pretty much been hung out to dry by some stupid moves by the back office people.

As others have said when it comes down to it VS is no longer the front runner for me.Sure the clubhouse is nice,sure the UCS is nice,but as has been said before,the food is hit or miss,the amenity kit has gone to hell and the majority of the extra have gone bye bye.

Of course there is another alternative if you need the UCS,you could always fly NZ,still get miles,still enjoy the UCS,get better food and for less money.

DO this at least until VS sorts out their stuff.

Anyways im rambling again [:I]

Anyways im rambling again

Enjoy the walk, it'll do you good [y]

[Scrooge]

Originally posted by sailor99

Anyways im rambling again

Enjoy the walk, it'll do you good [y]

See definition #1.

What you are talking about is wombling

Originally posted by jetwet1
Of course there is another alternative if you need the UCS,you could always fly NZ,still get miles,still enjoy the UCS,get better food and for less money.

Having flown NZ Business Premier, I was pretty happy with the whole inflight experience.

There isn't an amenity kit on NZ, but I don't think there was much of one to begin with, even before the service revamp.

Instead, like on SQ, socks and shades are waiting for you in reuseable "ziplock" type pouches, while a crew member offers dental needs, earplugs and other bits (lip balm, etc.) from a tray during boarding.

The fact that the things aren't in a cardboard envelope which is falling apart at the seams (or worse still, in baggies), means that this doesn't look too shabby, even though there isn't a full-blown kit.

I did take my trinkets off Air NZ, so I'll take a pic of them for you.

However, the food, wines and service seem to be consistently top notch and offer a good selection.

It's almost like VS have tried to go down this route, but buggered it up. The problem is, whenever you take something from a plane, be it food or facilities, people will notice, and eventually, people will get fed up of feeling "short changed".

Cheers,
Mike

Originally posted by Gelding
Wow what a great thread!

So for the next trip BA it is....they are cheap and sure dont give me any less than VS so worth a try, if its worth it or not then I guess I will find out soon.

My biggest problem with BA is their seemingly unfailing annual strikes - either threatened or actual. Their service is absolutely fine, on the whole, but to have a trip arranged and then be waiting for the strike hammer to fall is a real issue.