Air Marshalls

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone knows whether Virgin flights going to and from the USA have Air Marshalls onboard.

Thank you

I don't know the answer to your question, but I am very interested to understand why this information is important to you.

You misunderstand i am a very fearful flyer for a number of reasons and though some of you may laugh, i would feel better knowing there were marshals onboard. Plus i heard about an incident involving a transatlantic flight where the marshal got involved but it didnt name the airline.

[Decker]

The public position

and more.

Gosh Decker

After reading all of that I am not sure that I would feel any safer at all if these armed trigger happy guys were on board ready to cause a decompression at 37000ft.

Also, I bet they will often find themselves in UC which means less upgrades available or even worse, downgrades at the gate if these guys show up at the last minute and demand to be on the plane

thank you for the link

[Decker]

It'd be a slow leak not a decompression and in any case they doubtless use glass shells with teflon fluid and BB shot or similar to ensure the bullet stays inside the body . (Had a survivalist friend outside LA who did this to ensure that if he had to shoot a burglar his neighbours would be fine).

Agree on the UC comment though. Although they'd be protecting the cockpit so only the Snooze Zone on 747s .

Why teflon fluid? What does that do? Would be grateful if you could explain further.

Surely you would want a round that has maximum effectiveness to neutralize any threat reliably and quickly. Won't these rounds just disintegrate rather than cavitate? Would only light body armour be effective against them?

If the plan is to move towards less lethal methods then why not just use gas or tazors, or even some of my jokes to incapacitate them.

or throw a snooze pack at them, they would die laughing.

For obvious reasons I cannot tell you what the official US government position is on Air Marshalls or where they fly. It would seem logical that they are more likley to operate on flights around/near/to the capital, however I cannot give you any specific details.

Even if there is one or more onboard, you as a passenger would not be alerted to their presence and wouldn't know they were there. We're trained to treat them as ordinary passengers and not draw any attention to them.

Originally posted by easygoingeezer
or throw a snooze pack at them, they would die laughing.

Oh perhaps suffocate them with our little red pillows??? (Only joking)

[honey lamb]

My friends in the States who fly regularly (like every weekend) can spot them at fifty paces

How? Do they wear a big hat and a marshals' star?

[Decker]

It's the training .

As for the Teflon - I have no clue and googling now it looks like my memory is faulty! I just recall he wanted bullets that would penetrate the skin and break up with insufficient force to create an exit wound. Haven't spoken to him in over a decade so can't double check!

[ChuckC]

Originally posted by honey lamb
My friends in the States who fly regularly (like every weekend) can spot them at fifty paces

Me, too, I'm afraid. There was considerable controversy over the air marshals' dress and where they sat, etc. The result was that they drew unwanted attention to themselves. Changes have been made quietly since.

As webdes says, for obvious reasons we should be cautious about how we discuss this topic.

Chuck-

[mcmbenjamin]

And they are in First without a BlackBerry. I like to engage them and hear the BS stories of why they are traveling.

Tosh: Also beaware that other people on this site have different views on security.

[Scrooge]

Seeing as this has been posted on the web many times im not letting any secrets out.

The way I used to spot them was they would board with the crew,dressed in regular clothes and would be seated in first waiting for everyone else to come aboard,pretty conspicuous.

[preiffer]

In my opinion the second ANYONE gets on a plane with a gun, regardless of who they are, the entire plane is less safe than it was to begin with.

[Neil]

Originally posted by preiffer
In my opinion the second ANYONE gets on a plane with a gun, regardless of who they are, the entire plane is less safe than it was to begin with.

mmmm quite a controversial comment there preiffer, let the debate continue....

my 2p's worth, I do actually disagree with you, many reasons but with the world as it is I think Air Marshalls are needed.

Neil:)

[Bazz]

I've heard of "teflon coated" which I believe is to aid with penetrating body armour but not "teflon fluid" in the bullet?

Any weapons experts on the site?

Originally posted by ChuckC

Originally posted by honey lamb
My friends in the States who fly regularly (like every weekend) can spot them at fifty paces

Me, too, I'm afraid. There was considerable controversy over the air marshals' dress and where they sat, etc. The result was that they drew unwanted attention to themselves. Changes have been made quietly since.

As webdes says, for obvious reasons we should be cautious about how we discuss this topic.

Chuck-

Well, I guess if the Marshall's wearing a dress it would make him a little easier to spot.......

The way I used to spot them was they would board with the crew,dressed in regular clothes and would be seated in first waiting for everyone else to come aboard,pretty conspicuous

Man, thats almost stealthy....[:p]

[fozzyo]

I'm with preiffer on this one.

My concern is what happens when this guy all of a sudden jumps up pointing a gun at someone shouting at them about being an Air Marshall.

There are only upto 20 people (can't remember exact crew numbers) on board who know he / she is actually an air marshall. Everyone else around them hasn't got a clue - all they know is that there is a guy being very aggressive waiving a possibly loaded gun around onboard a flight mid-air. They aren't going to remain very calm in that situation - the panic will set in a lot quicker then the crew announcement or whatever the protocol is to calm everyone down is. And that panic could well cause a lot more problems - maybe the guy next to the air marshall decides he's got nothing to loose and so jumps him and all of a sudden the situation becomes a whole lot worse as control is very quickly lost.

My other issue with them, is they say Air Marshalls may only be used where there is a perceived threat to a flight. In that case why is the passenger who is causing that threat being let aboard - and would the US really allow that plane into its air space? Prevention better then cure etc.

This all really started up big time when there was talk of US pilots being armed in the cockpit post 9/11. Now with the enforced doors and people highlighted to security issues it's a lot different and personally I have to agree preiffer wuth regards anyone on an aircraft with a gun.

Originally posted by jetwet1
Seeing as this has been posted on the web many times im not letting any secrets out.

The way I used to spot them was they would board with the crew,dressed in regular clothes and would be seated in first waiting for everyone else to come aboard,pretty conspicuous.

They've never been very good at incognito - unfortunately stiff security officers always stick out. And when they try to go casual even more so. Having lived in Brixton I can tell you it is as easy as pie to spot an undercover police officer, I'm sure regular flyers can do the same on a plane!

As to safety and security, I'm in the camp of believing an armed marshall increases the threat rather than decreases it - if action is needed you just don't know who's behind him/her ready to take them out and the take the gun ... agree with Fozzyo and the BA comments, if there is a threat at all, take everyone off for secondary screening, don't let anyone who doesn't pass 100% back on, or cancel the flight as BA have done a number of times. Leaving a threat in place and adding arms to it in flight is madness in my mind.

Thankfully the whole security situation is so much better than it was and that must give cause for comfort.