Shocking new terrorist plot ...

Mark J , I am sorry if I came across wrong with the WASP thing but it is difficult to describe your self to others in a pc way. (My wife and I are non believers but white skinned etc) I meant that there must be a lot more common sense used with the profiling of people . I believe that even in the worst atrocities there has never been a mother and father prepared to sacrifice there 1 and 3 year old childeren for there cause. This is what I was trying to get across. I hope I have clarified what I wrote earlier.

Originally posted by ny
I believe that even in the worst atrocities there has never been a mother and father prepared to sacrifice there 1 and 3 year old childeren for there cause.

I do so hope you are right - but did anyone ever think that fanatics would fly aircraft into buildings !!

Unfortunately the values and beliefs of some people differ so vastly to those which we and many others in the world have that the example you cite can never be ruled out!

I think we all have to be vigilant and if anything or anyone looks strange then we should inform the authorities. I dont think anyone should be arrested without reason - but in the times we live in I think we have to accept that mistakes will be made or evidence will not be easy to obtain!!

[preiffer]

Mistakes like when they shot that innocent lad on the tube last year, Mark? [:w][:0]

I'd hope they go on more than just a "he looks dodgy" in future. [:?]

[Nottingham Nick]

Quite naturally, this thread is getting emotive again. It is difficult to talk about 'profiling' without straying into the race issue. We just have to be careful with our phrasing.

Unfortunately in any conflict, there are a massive number of totally innocent people caught up and inconvenienced - including lots who fit 'the profile' but are totally opposed to the methods of people who were allegedly planning mass murder.

ny - if you look back in history, both recent, and through the years, there have been a whole host of people who are more then willing to sacrifice their own children (and a lot more) for 'the cause' - whatever cause it may be.

Is the current security too much? Yes, it probably is.. is it guaranteed to stop the next wave of murderers ?.. no it isn't.

The bottom line is though, given the choice between extra security and being blown up half way across the Atlantic, I will take the delay every time.

Nick

Originally posted by preiffer
Mistakes like when they shot that innocent lad on the tube last year, Mark? [:w][:0]

I'd hope they go on more than just a "he looks dodgy" in future. [:?]

Dont disagree with any of that and by mistakes I was referring to arrests - the tube incident was a disaster of the highest order!!

Its such a fine line isnt it - do the security services go to critical alert and we all get inconvenienced ( but hoepfully nobody gets blown up) or do they leave things for a bit to see if anything happens (and something happens??)

Either way they are gonna get a load of flack - Im personally glad that I dont have to make those kind of decisions.

Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
Quite naturally, this thread is getting emotive again. It is difficult to talk about 'profiling' without straying into the race issue. We just have to be careful with our phrasing.

Very true. But it is a credit to our members that an emotive and sensitive issue is being touched on without resorting to heated exchanges (even though there are very different views on the subject).

Profiling is used with some sucess I believe by some countries, when combined with physical security, intelligence and behavour monitoring. I think my take on the suggestion was to agree that searching every item that goes onto a plane is not practical, so profiling makes sense. But that it would be too simple if colour were the primary factor. Colour is one factor amongst many. Of course there is an assumption it is not one of the techniques currently being used. I don't know if this is true or not.

I am afraid there are many examples of children being used in support of 'a cause'. We have all seen pictures of mere infants with machine guns, children were used by both sides in Ireland, and even in WW2 the resistance used children for smugling and communication. I do not know of an example yet, but I would not be surprised to see children even being involved in suicide missions. What a disgusting thought.

It is difficult isn't it. On a philosophical level I used to like the Canadian customs scheme whereby you pushed a button on entering Canada and were randomly selected for search, it being totally non-profiling and free of discrimination (does this still happen?). Yet profiling is used very successfully in many security and police situations. As mentioned El Al do it, Scotland Yard use profiling techniques for a wide variety of criminal investigations, the US criminal invesitgation agencies do it.

As a single traveller who often books travel at the last minute I'd expect to have a higher alert profile than my mate who books six months in advance with the wife and two kids ... and that's irrespective of colour or race and shows how profiling can be used without emotiveness, and it can be much more sophisticated. Yet when I go on holiday in flip flops and shorts with Madonna on my iPod and a copy of Refresh in my hand baggage and moaning at the no. 1, I'm sorry I just do not fit any alert profile and should be speeded through.

Oh I don't know about you not fitting any alert profile Slinky. People who wear flip flops, very worrying ;)

Originally posted by sailor99
Oh I don't know about you not fitting any alert profile Slinky. People who wear flip flops, very worrying ;)

That's where I hide my secret weapon, or is it in my trunks ... hmmm there's an idea, wear trunks through the airport and head straight for the jacuzzi in the LHR club house to relieve the strain of security! Just don't tell me the club house has stopped serving liquids [:0]

Oh I am so going to be looking out for people in Speedo's now[}:)]

[Neil]

Please no to Speedo's, they are not a good look[V]

Depends who's wearing em, David Beckham springs to mind, lol.

Sailor mentioned something about kids in time of war, it is a ploy for kids to run up to soldiers pretending to ask for chocolate then run off whilst the grown ups take aim, the terrorists in Moscow and Beslum were women also and used the killing or children to increase outrage and media coverage.