Virgin Atlantic - The Good Stuff!!

There have been a number of complaints, issues raised, moans and groans about Virgin and the decrease in service over the past couple of years and quite rightly these are being aired on V-flyer.

Well I would like to argue that although these issues are definitely affecting us and that we all have opinions as to how much there must also be a time when we do look at what VS offers us and say - hell yeah!! There are still some great reasons for travelling with Virgin.

Take a look at our own Flyer Ratings – they are all pretty much in the “good” side of the scale!! That tell us something doesn’t it – maybe someone behind the scenes can analyse the trend – but if I was looking at those gauges then I would think things were still in the right area!

Number one has got to be the staff – even when issues are being raised its very rarely about VS staff – Ok so the “bean counters” are getting a bashing at the moment – but service from cabin cream and from the booking agents always comes across as good – and whilst there will be things that are wrong I’m sure that in the main the cabin crew score highly!!

Secondly – haven’t Virgin really put in a great deal of effort and investment in improving their product – and lets look at the main things that we need when flying – the seat!! VS has spent a great deal on the UCS, has improved both economy and PE seating and is about to put more money into new PE seats.

Thirdly – whilst there is debate on the A380, Virgin have continued to invest in new aircraft – and these are fitted with V-port – which is pretty much up there as an IFE system.

Fourth - are we comparing like with like:
- Economy – surely whatever aircraft we are on this is going to be pretty standard – Ok so some seat pitches are greater - but if the VS crew are “the best” then doesn’t that make VS economy “the best” too? I cannot remember having read any wondrous reports of economy travel on other airlines lately.

- PE – bit tricky this one as most airlines do not have one – but BA WT+ is the comparison – and I don’t think this wins any prizes for innovation or quality? And PE does score particularly highly on our VF ratings.

- UC – has to compared to business class – I’ve never flown in the UCS and I assume from reading the reports that most people have become disappointed with the service as elements have been cut or changed in the past year or so. This is quite understandable – however – is the UCS the best business class seat in the air? Are the VS crew the best in this class of cabin? And the argument about lounges/clubhouses applies to all airlines – BA do have some lovely facilities – but they do differ from airport to airport? OK so we have got a crap amenity kit at the moment, the pillows have gone, maybe the food isn’t as good – and yes, these MUST all be addressed .

Interestingly Mavrick was telling me today that VS and business class travel gets discussed quite a bit at his company and of the 10 guys chatting about this the other day 9 of them said that they preferred VS UC to any other airlines business class product!!


I think that all the points we make on Vflyer are, without doubt, valid, relevant and important to many of us – but maybe we are “ultra” critical because we know the product so well and we can see what is happening to things we have always liked and come to enjoy!

So taking all the above into account and assuming that price is comparable on a given day for a given flight – then are we not still going to try and fly with Virgin as our number one choice of carrier – be honest all of you – do you always check out the VS price and availability first?

Now maybe I should put on the hard hat?

[preiffer]

the UCS the best business class seat in the air? Are the VS crew the best in this class of cabin?

Actually, no.

It's the one of the best (current) Business Class BEDS in the air - but the seat is decidedly mediocre in my view... [:w]

Nice one, Mark[y]

I think certain aspects of VS come under fire here but its mainly due to cost cutting and the occassional bad experience. However, most people on this site really enjoy flying virgin and have even paid to join and discuss it:D

VS.

Originally posted by VS045
Nice one, Mark[y]

I think certain aspects of VS come under fire here but its mainly due to cost cutting and the occassional bad experience. However, most people on this site really enjoy flying virgin and have even paid to join and discuss it:D

VS.

Agreed. And I also (generally) agree with most of the points made by Mark. However, I still maintain that the CC service differs widely depending on where the flights originate. Having flown from all of the following, the pecking order seems to be LHR, LGW, MAN. The last crew on my PE to BOS from LHR were, in the words of the immortal Tina 'simply the best'. PE MAN to MCO left a bit to be desired.

Perhaps Mark is correct and we are all becoming ultra critical - but does that not indeed show that we care [?]

The biggest assett VA has at the moment is its clients, one of a few client base that gives a damn about the company as well as the product.

Lets hope VA managers are still mindfull of this rare fact.

A couple of points. Quite a lot of airlines beat VS on Y seat pitch, even China Eastern for goodness sake! And for me, when flying Y, this is the number one factor (by a very, very long way).

IMO the fact that pitch in Y is so important is the key rational behind PE. People are essentially paying for the extra room. And in this respect it works well, as is reflected in PE's load factors. I would say there is nothing wrong with PE and it is a good and well received product.

The buisines product is a more complex one. IMO the UCS is up there with the best. The IFE is excellent, the bar is unique (though I rairly use it) and the clubhouse at LHR is world class. However the food sucks and the crew are variable. And often it is the small things that count, and on VS these are being decimated. Finally we should not forget that VS prices very often are above other carriers. I am now finding BA has a significant US price advantage at the moment for example.

Getting of the flight experience, the FC also is attractive in that you can climb the grades rapidly and there is a wide range of rewards available - I would say VS has the edge here over BA for example. However the benefits are resticted by tight reward availablity on most routes and often costly reward prices on partner carriers. In this sense the BA scheme seems to have the edge.

Also remember that when you tinker round the edges on a product, often the impact on sales will be slow as most people do not pick up the changes very quickly. So you would expect a site like this with very regular flyers on it to be a leading indicator of problems. I would say watch out VS!

[Neil]

Good post Mark, nice to see people looking at the positives/appeal of VS, rather than the negatives all the time.

For me, the Service i receive on VS is by far and away the best I have received ever, and that was what initially got me hooked on VS, i have never had a bad CC experience, and the majority of TR's i read here and other sites say exactly the same. And not only VS CC, I find the VS FF Team very helpful, and have over the past year or so had some great help and advise from them.

As a in-frequent flyer, with only 3/4 VS flights a year, things like the IFE again make a important part for me, and V-Port is without doubt an excellent system, another massive [y] for VS.

I guess at the end of the day, everybody is different, wanting/expecting different things from their flights, but for me VS offer a very good product.

Neil:)

oh yer, and don't forget if if we didn't all like VS, we wouldn't have V-Flyer[:0]

I thought my first few trips with VS even in economy were "amazing" "fantastic" "awsome" and fell in love with the brand, the whacky advertising, the sence of open mindedness and mainly the feeling that you don't have to be loaded to feel special.

The only reason I have had my doubts lately is on my most recent flights, its only been me thats thought I was a bit special faced with indifference on some flights, I am starting to feel "let down"

Each time I book a holiday/flight I get all exited again and instantly book with a Virgin Company, BUT now I think in the back of my mind please smile and say hello when I get on the plane, please don't look vexed if I happen to ask for something just once during the whole flight, please don't tell me you will bring something right over and then not bother to come back. the lack of these things don't make me angry, they make me a little sad and feel like a little zero, a smile can make the difference between feeling like a hero or a zero.

I am sure the magic will come back, and lets face it Sir R isn't the only entrepreneur that can sense what a client base is looking for, they just need their eye back on the ball I think and out of the boardroom..

Originally posted by easygoingeezer
I thought my first few trips with VS even in economy were "amazing" "fantastic" "awsome" and fell in love with the brand, the whacky advertising, the sence of open mindedness and mainly the feeling that you don't have to be loaded to feel special.

That was our experience too when we first started flying with them. Friends living in LA recommended VS when we first went out to stay with them and we thought it brilliant. Seat back entertainment with choice of films (when other friends going to LA at the same time had to endure the screen at the front showing only "family friendly" offerings.. offspring made to feel important (K-ID rucksacks).. ice cream...All this has carried VS a long way with us..

Originally posted by easygoingeezer
Each time I book a holiday/flight I get all exited again and instantly book with a Virgin Company, BUT now I think in the back of my mind please smile and say hello when I get on the plane, please don't look vexed if I happen to ask for something just once during the whole flight, please don't tell me you will bring something right over and then not bother to come back. the lack of these things don't make me angry, they make me a little sad and feel like a little zero, a smile can make the difference between feeling like a hero or a zero.

I am sure the magic will come back, and lets face it Sir R isn't the only entrepreneur that can sense what a client base is looking for, they just need their eye back on the ball I think and out of the boardroom..

It is still present, at least on some flights (a bit like V:Port...) as our recent St Lucia trip showed.

Paul

[RichardMannion]

I will slight with Sailor on this one.

Yes VS is a good carrier but when I look back at the overall package since I started flying them in 1999, I would say its not at its peak. Dave's survey a while ago proved that point - did people prefer the J2000 service with all the aspects that have been cutback or the new UCS service with the trimmings removed. It was almost a landslide for J2000.

I think the core service of VS is very good, but then so is BA. And they are competing at exactly the same price point. Some of the reductions in service, the removign of the gloss has been detrimental but for me its more around consistency.

On Saturday and Sunday last, me and Sarah utilised BA to fly to EDI - on both times I was greeted at the door as a Blue Exec Club member as 'Mr Mannion'. Simple recognition. I am the lowest rung in the Exec Club yet they delivered an efficient and professional service. Skip over to some of my flights in the last year as a FC Au and the recognition is almost none. Yes the flights have been fine, and I don't have any issues with the food but for goodness sake staff pay attention to whom your loyal customers are. I'm not expecting red carpet but just a simple thank you for your continued support.

I think I am getting old (wondered what the pipe and slippers were for) but I have found the service to be a bit immature at times from staff - I know Virgin have been known as a fun brand, but then there is also a need for professional service. We flew PE to IAD at Easter, again no recognition for either of us (and there were 4 golds on the flight so hardly a hardship) and there was a distinct lack of attention from the crew. We were sat in the front row of PE, and could see the mass congregation of staff in the galley who were oblivious to the children running from Y to J. What does it cost for the FSM to walk round and personally say hello to the handful of Gold's on the flight. Nothing. I think some of it comes from the bizarre decision to remove the PAX breakdown that lists who is who and if they are an upgrade etc - its now deemed that anyone sat in UC should get the full UC service. There was a whole debate about this when it was discovered to be the case.

So yes the core service is great, no denying that. But Virgin need to regain that edge of extras to make people choose them over BA (or whoever). The analogy that frangipan used about the wooden floor absolutely encompassed the issue. I know behind the scenes VS are working hard to correct many of the issues that have been raised and more to gain back the edge.

One area that I must comment on that has not changed, is Flying Club. Still the program of choice for me. Even with the chnages early in the year, its still the best for me. There are some opportunites for the program to grow and also maybe look after those that requalify each year with ease as at the moment that is causing some to use another program. MilesPlusMoney has come under some debate, and again there is some work to be looked at there - BMI have an interesting stance to MpM that I know is beginning to interest me, especially with the fact that their financial partner does not use the AmEx platform. Would be nice if MpM fares were to attract TP's (not miles). But overall Flying Club is good, probably why they would the Freddie last year for best top tier.

Thanks,
Richard

Really, here in in the UK we are relatively spoilt for choice - we may not think that VS are not so great in some areas- yet compared to most US airlines, they are better in pretty much every way (at least on board).
Flying to Singapore one has the choice of VS, BA and SQ which are all world-class airlines. However, if VS were to fly a route to the US on which BA did not operate, the choice would be between, say, VS and Northwest. In this case, the decision is simple and if you don't have time/miles constraints, there is very little to persuade one to fly NW. Having said that, VS is often more expensive and many people value saving an extra grand or so more than flying on VS for biz class travel.

In many ways, those of us in the UK are very lucky to have this choice as VS is compared to most, one of the best around. However, that said, they still need to compete, so this complacency and testing of customer loyalty really must stop.

/rant;)

VS.

Richard,

I'd agree that Flying Club is a great mileage earning scheme. But frankly the spending possibilities suck. At the moment it appears impossible to redeem FC miles for any ex-LGW flight, and booking to the west coast of the USA, despite having three flight options, needs to be done around 4-5 months out.

Couple this with the small route network, the very poor MpM pricing on Upper Class (compare this with bmi, for example) and you have a scheme which is poor for actually flying anywhere in UC. Add the lack of anything useful in the Gold tier (beyond a small cabin bonus) for habitual Upper Class fliers and the scheme really does fail to deliver for me.

A few changes would make things much better: make the companion seat a decent offer (i.e. 2-4-1 on Z fares), create better reward availability for FC Golds, including ex-LGW and give Golds preferential seating options (certain rows held back for everyone else until OLCI). They could also put some investment into making partner redemption easier -- at the moment it's usually painful and laborious.

BC

[RichardMannion]

Originally posted by BlackCat
Richard,

I'd agree that Flying Club is a great mileage earning scheme. But frankly the spending possibilities suck. At the moment it appears impossible to redeem FC miles for any ex-LGW flight, and booking to the west coast of the USA, despite having three flight options, needs to be done around 4-5 months out.

Couple this with the small route network, the very poor MpM pricing on Upper Class (compare this with bmi, for example) and you have a scheme which is poor for actually flying anywhere in UC. Add the lack of anything useful in the Gold tier (beyond a small cabin bonus) for habitual Upper Class fliers and the scheme really does fail to deliver for me.

A few changes would make things much better: make the companion seat a decent offer (i.e. 2-4-1 on Z fares), create better reward availability for FC Golds, including ex-LGW and give Golds preferential seating options (certain rows held back for everyone else until OLCI). They could also put some investment into making partner redemption easier -- at the moment it's usually painful and laborious.

BC

Actually, you're right. Spending (or burning) is a bit poor in certain aspects like you identified. Ex-lGW routes in particular, I know we looked a couple of weeks ago for a G return (in conjunction with my paid Z) across practially the entire rotue network for a set of flexible dates in Sept/Early Oct and the resutls were disappointing. But then last night I check for a particular route at Easter and there are 10G's showing over multiple days. I'm not personally convinced that Revenue Management take the element of a customer being a FC Au into consideration. I can see the loads via GDS and at times it just doesn't equate, especially if its coupled up with a revenue seat. The pure J requirement for companion does diminish its value - I end up giving my companion reward away each year as a result (I'm not buying J's when i can get Z's and D's much cheaper).

If you do look at it, what does Gold actually mean for a regular UC customer - not a lot aside from the cabin bonus as you noted. Greatest Gold benefit in my book is the ability to speak to Premier (well one person in particular).

Earning miles in FC is indeed easy, its just a bit of challenge spending them sometimes unless you plan well in advance or at the last minute. Something that does need to be fixed soon, otherwise all these new acquired customers that have got their new MBNA cards will go ape when they find out how companion really works and how the upgrade reward means they will have to be flexible on dates.

Thanks,
Richard

Originally posted by RichardMannion
Earning miles in FC is indeed easy, its just a bit of challenge spending them sometimes unless you plan well in advance or at the last minute. Something that does need to be fixed soon, otherwise all these new acquired customers that have got their new MBNA cards will go ape when they find out how companion really works and how the upgrade reward means they will have to be flexible on dates.

This is a key to me. I like the way you can move through the tiers and earn miles. However I soo strugle to spend them now I am flying to the US. When I was flying PVG, the route was newish and the loadings meant that with a bit of work I could blow my rewards. I mentioned VS doesn't stand a comparison to BA on price for me at the moment. Clearly this is a factor in my moving towards the dark side. But to be honest, the ability to spend with BAEC (which blackcat made clear for me) was what won the day for BA. Shame really, as the CH, the suite, etc is much better in VS J.

And BA has a web site far in advance of VS, which means it's a pleasure to go in and play with your points, either on direct award travel where the route network means that you always have a fair choice, or on Miles For Upgrades which can all be done online. Once Next Gen Club World is launched I suspect I may find it increasingly difficult to maintain any VS loyalty unless they get their act together across the board.

One example: we were thinking about our usual September holiday back in May and one option was a week in the finest city on the planet. However there was absolutely zero return availability on VS to either SFO or LAX for that week, using any combination of days. Sure, we could wait until the last moment and then hope that seats are released (maybe buying S class PE tickets) but there is no way that (a) I want to travel for 10+ hours in PE or (b) want to arrive in SFO and pay through the nose for a short notice hotel.

So we won't be flying with VS and in fact will probably use the miles to redeem on SQ F flights next year instead. At which point I'm starting to think about reactivating my bmi account and accumulating miles in a scheme which actually gives me some decent options for spending.

As I've said before, if you have a pattern of business class travel for work to a variety of destinations, and also want a decent range of leisure travel options, then BA seems to make far more sense. Having spent the first 6 months of the year in a combination of CW and MFU'd to FIRST travel I can personally attest to the quality of the service (despite the fact that CW is too short a bed for anyone 6ft or over).

In the old days the 'experience' was enough to ensure I stuck with VS despite the poor route network. I can well remember the convoluted routings I'd use just to ensure I was on a VS plane for at least some of the journey. Today the experience is a pale shadow of its former self, having suffered death by beancounter, and frankly the process has left a bitter aftertaste. [:(!]

BC

Not to chastise anyone, but this thread started off as VS, the good stuff. Perhaps the fact that we have unwittingly strayed off that theme, and even moved onto talking about the good stuff on the dark side says something fairly relevant.

Either way, it seems that most people think that the clubhouse is fantastic, and the AVOD system great. FC seems more luke warm, as does the UCS. Seat pitch in Y looks like it gets the thumbs down from larger posters . The interesting thing to me is the variability of comments about cabin crew - some think they are sassy and great, while others point to the regular CC galley parties.

For me, VS beats Aeroflot any day of the week (and many other airlines!). But when you look at their close competitors you see them catching up. If you look at some of the new boys on the block with a similarly limited route portfolio (eg Etihad - big flat bed although not fleet wide, limo, massage chairs, customer service you would kill for, but no CH or FF scheme), it can be argued they are now setting the pace.

This thread started off with a question: "are we not still going to try and fly with Virgin as our number one choice of carrier".

I think all have us have been consistent in suggesting that the answer is "yes, we'd like to, but VS is makiug it rather difficult for us at present".

BC

Having just flown LHR to LAX and LAS to LGW in Y my thoughts are this:

Would I still choose VS for a small premium over BA or one of the US carriers?..... Yes at present I would. Although I was tempted by the 34" pitch on Air New Zealand in Y.

As long as I can check in relatively easily, be fed, watered and have a reasonable IFE system to keep me entertained for part of the flight then for the most part I'm happy (simple soul that I am).

When I first flew VS back in 91 I remember the menus, exceptional service and the feeling that you were getting something 'different' from the norm. Hell I even liked the experience so much I bought a VS Varga Girl T-Shirt! - Bring those back VS!!!!!

As an aside, a friend of mine flew BA WT to the States around the same dates as I did and he had an awful flight out but a good flight back. Consistency for all airlines it seems is the main issue.

Jon B

Most of the guys that I work with prefer to fly VS, as in their opinion itÕs the best business class product certainly to North America at the moment and a lot of these guys used to be die hard UA and AA fans.

One thing everybody seem to agree is that the suite is very, very comfortable You can get a good night sleep have a shower in Revivals (if there was any hot water ) have a breakfast and head straight to work feeling very refreshed.

V.Port is exceptional! A lot of business class passengers don't give a damn about the amenity kits.

My personal view is I've been flying VS now for the last 10 years and I can
honestly say I've never really had a bad flight. Yes the service, amenity
kit and food has gone downhill somewhat but apart from SIA & EK both
with whom I've flown with, VS is still up there with them.

I've had 7 UC flights since December last year and the last 4 flights have just been really exceptional and when VS produce service like this they are up there with the best of the best i.e. SIA & EK LAX TR and on top of all that you have the Premier team which is just TOP CLASS [y].

With all the security alerts the other day when all the airlines were cancelling flight left, right and centre VS flew an empty aircraft to Miami to bring all their passengers back including me I wonder what other airline would have done that ??(Sorry preiffer you should have come to MIA that weekend and not BOS[:w] ).

As I don't have a VS Amex card I use a normal Amex platinum and the only FC points I get is from flight, hotel stays and yes they are a bonus but I fly VS because for me, itÕs the best..

I haven't flown BA, in over 7 years so I cant compare recently but remember BA wasn't always perfect and they are just starting to get their product back up there.

Overall, in my point of view, VS is still the best out there to North America, at the moment and I think most of us here notice the small things with VS more because we fly more often than the average twice a year vacation passenger but at the end of the day we all have a choice who we fly with so if the product is not up to standard or what you expect feel free to use another airline. As for me my signature says it all and it will take a lot more that a mere cheap amenity kit and some really bad service for me to stop flying VS.

Originally posted by Jon B

Hell I even liked the experience so much I bought a VS Varga Girl T-Shirt! -

Me too [:I] And wore it on the return flight [:$]

[Neil]

Originally posted by Treelo

Originally posted by Jon B

Hell I even liked the experience so much I bought a VS Varga Girl T-Shirt! -

Me too [:I] And wore it on the return flight [:$]

[V]............

I've had 7 UC flights since December last year and the last 4 flights have just been really exceptional and when VS produce service like this they are up there with the best of the best i.e. SIA & EK LAX TR and on top of all that you have the Premier team which is just TOP CLASS .

Yes, I've flown VS 4 times this year - twice in PE and twice in upper (planning to do TRs tomorrow) and my flight out to DXB a few weeks ago was the best flight I've ever had, even though I didn't get an ammenity kit at all;)
From DXB, I then took a flight in Y on EK which is one of the world's best airlines and recieved service well below almost any VS flight - so even the best can have consistency problems.

VS.