PE - A Seperate Travel Class?

(preiffer : split from this topic, as it now opens a seperate issue)

I have a letter dated last month from customer services of VA stating that Econ pax are allowed to use PE toilets.This will make Econ pax happy but not PE. I was writing regarding another matter & included my query out of interest. I had always thought that Econ pax weren't allowed. I don't use UC toilets if I'm travelling PE.
Still, now I have a definitive answer from the horses mouth so to speak.

Thanks Roxy-Popsy - that's certainly not the answer I wanted to here. New discussion, why don't VS have WCs for PE... ([:(!])

VS.

Probably because VS see themselves as a two class carrier - upper and economy. They see PE as a sub-set of economy. See here.

Extracted from VS web site student pack
Q What are Virgin Atlantic's main brands/services?
A We operate a two class system: Upper Class and Economy class which is segmented into Premium Economy a full fare separate economy cabin and Economy covering all other coach/economy fares.

Some people on this website see PE as more than just an enhanced Y service. This could be a fruitful debate (split?)

Originally posted by Roxy-Popsy
(preiffer : split from this topic, as it now opens a seperate issue)

I have a letter dated last month from customer services of VA stating that Econ pax are allowed to use PE toilets.This will make Econ pax happy but not PE.

If I'm flying PE, I wouldn't be happy at all. [:I]

[Nottingham Nick]

Thanks for that link, Sailor.. I hadn't noticed that before.

Having a three tier check-in system somewhat contradicts that policy, but it makes a lot of other things make sense. Meal service, amenity kits etc.

To be fair I suppose the clue is in the title, Premium ECONOMY.

Nick

Thanks, Sailor![^]

I've always seen PE as a separate product, albeit with some overlapping elements (well quite a few actually;))

TBH, I don't really see why VS does this - I'm sure most pax in PE would be willing to pay a few extra quid for better quality food. I think VS should ditch the economy label for PE and establish it as a product in its own right. However, they'd have to be careful not to encroach too much on UC. Having said that, the PE ammenity kit is already ahead of UC[}:)]

VS.

I can understand Econ Pax using the toilets nearest PE on the A340's as there is nothing to say otherwise and from Roxy-Popsy's post they are entitled to.

However, on my very full return flight from Orlando (VS16)last year I was upstairs in PE. As day broke and everyone woke for breakfast there was the usual Queue for the toilets. To my amazement Econ Pax were walking up the stairs and joining the Queue to use the two bathrooms next to the Flight Deck.
As my breakfast was being served I mentioned this to the Cabin Crew in a very light hearted way by saying it's a good job I was not desperate to go! to which the reply was "It's easier for the Pax in the front part of Econ to come upstairs as they are not allowed to use the UC ones" [?]

Cannot remember how much the ticket was now but it was roughly double that of Econ. Which for a bit more space, seperate check-in and a glass of pre-flight Champagne seems a little much.

You could say VS are taking the "P" which was more that I was able to [:(]

IIRC there is a toilet in PE on the A346 and is seperated by the curtain during flight with Y. I was sitting at the front section of 'Y' and seeing econ pax sneaking through the curtain to use the PE toilet. I personally didn't do it.

The downstairs section of PE seem to think thry can use our UCS loo, so I guess thats payback for them,lol.

Originally posted by Stevieboy
to which the reply was "It's easier for the Pax in the front part of Econ to come upstairs as they are not allowed to use the UC ones"

Actually, that sort of makes sense. When I came back from LAS last week, there was only one loo in the front part of Econ - that being the starboard side behind row 23 which isn't easy to get to from the port side, and had some long queues (the space behind row 22 on the port side being the office)....

Cheers

Michael

This is a subject we have touched on before, albeit in a slightly different way. It is certainly true that the PE ticket is significantly more expensive that the Y ticket. At the moment, for you money you get a separate check in, more miles, a glass of bubbly and a few inches more leg room. One may shout 'not fair, but the loads of PE seem to indicate that enough people think it is fair and pay the money. For me, the key benefit is the leg room. Looked at in this way, you can either say that you are paying the premium for a good amount of leg room, or you can say that you are paying a premium to avoid the appauling Y leg room - it's a matter of spin and opinion.

[mitchja]

It's clearly also a concept that works, VS being the first airline to introduce a PE product, with most other major schedule carriers now offering a similar product with similar onboard service ie just a bigger seat and more leg room.

As already mentioned it is after all a Premium Economy product so I wouldn't and don't expect much more.

Regards

[Neil]

Fistly, its good to know the VS answer on this, as its was very unclear with eve CC not knowing. As somebody who flys PE the majority of the time I personally do not see it as an issue if the Y pax use the same toilet as me, what does it matter? On all my VS flights I have at most had to join a queue of 2 people to wait for the toilet, so as long as I can go Im happy.

The main benefit for me of PE is the extra leg room, and separte check in. Yes it is quite a bit more money but on a long haul flight I personally think it is worth it, having a seperate wc is something I would not ever worry about, share and share alike[y]

Neil:)

On the new A346 configs what is the point of the curtain between W and Y if they Y pax are allowed to use the W toilets?

On the new A346 configs what is the point of the curtain between W and Y if they Y pax are allowed to use the W toilets?

Some sort of psychological thing?[:?][?]

VS.

[Neil]

Originally posted by VS045

On the new A346 configs what is the point of the curtain between W and Y if they Y pax are allowed to use the W toilets?

Some sort of psychological thing?[:?][?]

VS.

I am sure this is the reason, for the majority of the flight, especially a night flight, the curtain will be closed and I guess it is to give the W pax their "own cabin" feel, as marketed by VS.

Neil:)

As PE is my normal class of travel I am kinda used to not having a dedicated toilet anyway - tend not to catch a 747 much. What I am more disturbed about (in the new configuration) moving the toilet inside the PE cabin - indeed right next to a row of PE seats and then having them at the disposal of the entire Y cabin.

This is nothing to do with the class of travel of pax and evertyhing to do with the sheer numbers and resulting disruption to PE pax - of couple of whom will have to put up with the toilet door being opened in their face.

Phil FM

P.S. Thought I'd add a seat rating for the effected seats but the 340 config 2 seat map is not clickable on the seat ratings page - perhaps Pete could fix on his return.

I am sure this is the reason, for the majority of the flight, especially a night flight, the curtain will be closed and I guess it is to give the W pax their "own cabin" feel, as marketed by VS.

Neil

Yes, I think you're right:D

VS.

I booked PE for the extra leg room, I never gave to toilets a second thought.

I will only travel a minimum of PE with VS as it is equivalent to a reasonable Y service with other airlines. I cant even bear to walk down the back it is painful too see al those poor Y pax shoe horned into their seats.
Like I say in my opinion PE is a decent Economy service. Y is just awful IMO.

What's odd is that they operate a three class check in as stated earlier. However, if you look at BA (sorry) they state to be a four class airline but only operate a three class check-in with (w&Y sharing).

Kind Regards,

tom139

Originally posted by Monkey
I will only travel a minimum of PE with VS as it is equivalent to a reasonable Y service with other airlines. I cant even bear to walk down the back it is painful too see al those poor Y pax shoe horned into their seats.
Like I say in my opinion PE is a decent Economy service. Y is just awful IMO.

Everyone's different of course, In my experience Y in VS is not so bad, sure compared to 33" & 34" pitch offered by the likes of Air New Zealand it's not great.... But at just over 6 ft 1" tall I've never had a real problem, certainly not enough of a problem to justify the extra amount charged for PE.

So back to the question should the loo's be available to Y pax?

Just IMO, no they shouldn't. If you've paid the extra amount to upgrade then you should enjoy certain privileges attached to that. One of which should be the use of dedicated loo's for the PE Cabin.

[Neil]

Originally posted by Monkey
I will only travel a minimum of PE with VS as it is equivalent to a reasonable Y service with other airlines. I cant even bear to walk down the back it is painful too see al those poor Y pax shoe horned into their seats.
Like I say in my opinion PE is a decent Economy service. Y is just awful IMO.

A bit harsh Monkey, Y on VS is comparable to a lot of their rivals (BA) etc and a lot of those who offer a bigger Y seat pitch don't have a PE option. PE is a much better offering then most Y carriers service, separate check in, 38", upstairs cabin, priority baggage, increased milage earning etc, I don't know any carriers who offer this in Y, do you?

Not the upstairs cabin and priority baggage. But fly the likes of Thai or Etihad and service is way beyond what VS can dream of in UC. I do feel service goes a long way to making a premium product feel like a premium product.
My UC trip this week is a decider for me as to wether I fly VS in the future or not. The only reason I have been is its a business trip for us and the miles come in handy to avoid travelling as a glorified sardine.
My opinion still is and will remain until proved otherwise (This new meal service I have read about might be a stride forward) Is that PE is a Good Economy product and to me is how economy should be done. I would resent paying for it (which is why I use miles) because the difference in fare from my consolidators can be huge and what is it that makesit so good. OK, upper deck seats if you can get them, priority bags when it works. Service well I find it debatable that its much different from Y. Sorry if you think its Harsh but at the end of the day its only my opinion.

[Neil]

Monkey - what we were discussing was what VS give in PE compared to its rivals, as in increased benefits to its Y product. The service levels are a totally different matter and not an actual benefit compared to Y, and therefore should not be used as a factor in your arguement.

Yes it is your opinion, which you are entilted too, we should just stick to the original point, which you said that VS W product is comparable only to most other Y product, this is not true.

Neil:)