How can you tell if a flight is full?

Hello folks of Forum - Hubby and I are flying to San Fran this Saturday, 9th (VS019)and generally we pay for an emergency exit seat. However, if we know the flight is not full, we pay chance it and sit towards the rear, then take over the 4 middle seats between the 2 of us. Questions: Is the checkin agent allowed to tell us if its a full flight or not? Also, there used to be a website published on the forum that would give us availability of flights - where has it gone, or finally is there anyone on the forum who could give me the info[^]?
Many thanks
Sandy

[Neil]

I imagine the check in agent would tell you if a flight is full or not, not exact figures but just a simple "yes its busy" etc.

The site you are talking about is Expert flyer, there is a sub forum for this on the main VF page, and as a VF member you get 20 free searches, you will howver need a password now to access this forum which you can get from the Clubhouse forum as you are a paid up member, all the details on hwo to use it are in the Expert Flyer forum.

Neil:)

There did used to be an availability tool on this site, and of course others had it for free too. However, due to the data becoming not available, it stopped working. Expert flyer (paid site) is now the only alternative I know of.

[preiffer]

The flight's VERY full in Economy and Premium:

VS 19 0 LHR
09/09/06 11:00AM SFO
09/09/06 01:50PM 744
LS
J7 D7 Z7 W0 S0 K0 Y7 B0 L0 M0 Q0 X0 N0


3 seats unassigned in Economy, 1 in Premium and 21 free in Upper.

Looking on the bright side, good chances of u/g though if your hubby has status.

Originally posted by sailor99
Looking on the bright side, good chances of u/g though if your hubby has status.

[V]Perhaps Sandy has status ?

Paul

Originally posted by pjh


[V]Perhaps Sandy has status ?

Perhaps, but unlikely - given her profile says she is a red member........

Originally posted by sailor99

Originally posted by pjh


[V]Perhaps Sandy has status ?

Perhaps, but unlikely - given her profile says she is a red member........

Ah. Pedant hoisted by petard. It's a fair cop.

Paul

Better luck next time! [y]

Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
Sailor's gone and started a Gender War!!! I'm gonna pop me some corn, settle back, and watch it all go down from the comfort of my new couch.

I should put the corn away my little coxcomb. I was merely commenting on the facts revealed by this site as I determined them.

[Neil]

God you 2 are little siblings goading each other all the time [ii]

Originally posted by preiffer
J7 D7 Z7 W0 S0 K0 Y7 B0 L0 M0 Q0 X0 N0
3 seats unassigned in Economy, 1 in Premium and 21 free in Upper.

Can you explain that to me? [?]
I don't know much about these availability reports, but I don't see the number "3" anywhere.. and I was told that the "J7 D7 Z7" bit means there at least 7 seats in Upper available of which at least 7 can be sold as Z (and D) seats.. meaning there could be 21 seats.. but there could be 7 or 10 or 14 or 19 or........

[preiffer]

J7 D7 Z7 means they're SELLING 7 or more seats in Upper Class still.

Bear in mind that some seats do not appear on the seatmap, as they are assigned at check in - so while there are only 3 seats available on the economy seatmap, there may be others (exit rows, etc) that will be available on the day.

Remember, in airline terms (overbooking), tickets sold does not equal seats available

(The 21 seats in Upper was not 7+7+7, it's literally the amount of free seats that are currently showing as available on the seatmap)

Originally posted by preiffer
(The 21 seats in Upper was not 7+7+7, it's literally the amount of free seats that are currently showing as available on the seatmap)

And if I understand correctly, the 7 is actually a notional limit - i.e. the maximum they will tell you are available. In other words, there may be 30 seats available, but they just tell you 'at least 7'. Some airlines have a different figure.

Andrew

All correct radar

[Nottingham Nick]

Originally posted by 747340

Who and what do i have to pay to find out

As mentioned already in this thread. Simply buy a membership to V-Flyer.

This will get you a password to get into the expertflyer.com forum where there is an offer of 20 free searches on the site for V-Flyer members.

Nick

[preiffer]

Pay me, £50


Actually, I'll give you a clue: It's N=0 [:w]

[preiffer]

Either way you'll have to buy both - you can't go straight to silver

May as well make use of the benefits of red for a short while... [:w]

[preiffer]

J5 D5 Z5 W6 S6 K6 Y7 B7 L7 M7 Q7 X4 N0

[preiffer]

12 free seats in Upper
2 in PE
0 unallocated in Economy

[preiffer]

Nope - it means all pre-assignable seats in economy have been taken. More will be available on the day of check-in.

More important is the N0/X4. ie: they've closed off the "rock-bottom" fares - meaning the plane's starting to get relatively full down the back..

Y is showing 7. So there are at least 7 seats available to be sold in economy, and there may well be more. But all airlines oversell, so if they oversold, say, 10% on economy this would mean they sell 20 or so seats more than they actually have. So although it says 7, it maybe that the flight is full. The fact that there are no unallocated seats on the seat map implies the flight is busy in economy, but not necessarily totally full. You cannot be exact with these figures I am afraid - you get a rough feel for if the flight is busy or not busy.

The other letters and numbers are the other economy booking classes. So there are no N fares available (not surprising) but there is x availablity (and fares above that. There are also at least 6 fares available in PE and 5 in UC. These fares are available in all booking classes.

Originally posted by preiffer
J7 D7 Z7 means they're SELLING 7 or more seats in Upper Class still.Remember, in airline terms (overbooking), tickets sold does not equal seats available

Yeah, that's what I understood. So when you quote the Jx Dx Zx etc numbers from EF, all that tells you is what the airline are selling, and it tells you at what price buckets they are likely to be selling at.. and "7" can mean 7, or it can mean loads more than 7.

So how do you know how many are actually available? You mention seatmaps? How do you see those? and More relevantly, do they not only show those who have selected seats?

[preiffer]

Yup - exactly. Both measures are simply a guide, nothing more.

If the seatmap is full - it's a pretty good indication that the flight's filling up. That, combined with a Y/B/L/Q/X=0 - and that plane's already oversold.


The only *sure* way to get the info is on the airline's own system. EF gives us a GUIDE for what a flight's likely to be like for the purposes of upgrade chances/op-up opportunity, etc.

But it's not 100% accurate.

That's right. How do you know what actually available - you don't.

The seat maps are on the VS flight when you have booked a VS flight. They are also on EF, but not for all airlines. Remember not everyone who books has a seat allocated, and of course some are held back.

Like I say, it's not an exact science, but you do get a pretty good idea. This can be useful. I had a flight from PVG a while ago. I knew from EF that Y and PE were packed (0 tickets available). I had a AU so was optimistic for an u/grade. At the airport check in I was offered an upgrade for a good price. But knowing the booking levels, and with my AU in my pocket I decided to gamble on them being forced by overbooking to op up. As it turned out, this is what happened, so it saved me a few quid.

Similarly if it is clear 7's through out, then you can guess an upgrade will be expensive. It also makes it worthwhile asking how full the flight is when you check in to see if you want to buy an exit seat, although they won't always release the information.

If the bookings are middling-diddling, then with some airlines it's worth having a haggle about the price/miles for an upgrade at the airport.

It can also help in finding wide open flights to wait to see how the fares change - but that can be risky.

So essentially it give the benefit of being partly informed and therefore making a better decision.