Bulkhead Seats

Sorry if this has already been covered I did a search and could not find it.

My daughter has a disability so we book to fly PE giving her a bit more room and request the bulkheads. This has usually been fine but on our flight back from MCO to MAN we were told that we could not have them as they had been allocated to a family with a baby, after much fuss, eventually they were able to move people about and give my daughter the seat.

What I can't understand is why don't they block off these seats when booked, this would avoid the upset and worry about getting such seats. I would rather call to book my flight and be told all the bulkheads are allocated and change my dates to get them rather than take a chance hoping that a family with a baby don't come along and take them.

Has anyone any advice on how I may be able to secure them, I have looked at UC but it is too expensive and when I rang special assistance to ask their advice I was told that I should not book PE unless my daughter can sit comfortably in the standard seats. We have already stretched our budget to go up to PE.

[Neil]

Whilst fully unserstanding your problem, Bulkhead seats are not available to pre-book by anybody. People with Babies do get priority on these (AFAIK) but you are taking a gamble with just hoping to get the bulkheads. I have seen situations were people with babies could not get a bulkead because there were to many other pax with babies and they had all been allocated. Obviously a standard PE seat has much more room the a Y seat but its seems that there is no way to actually be certain of the seat you want, it is purely then down to you if you decide to book PE and take the risk. At least VS have informed you of the situation.

Neil:)

[HighFlyer]

Bulkhead seats are generally not pre-assigned in case any passengers who require special assistance arrive last minute. The difficulty here is that there are only a limited number of bulkhead seats, and they are requested by families, people with disabilities and also frequent flyers. Most airlines prioritise travellers with babies for these seats, some airlines save them for frequent flyers.

An airline often has no idea how many passengers on the day of travel will need a bulkhead seat - sometimes it is less than the number who requested one originally (due to no-shows etc) and sometimes it is more. Therefore, bulkheads are usually designated at check-in on a first come first served basis. This probably is the fairest way of allocating the seats, there is no point reserving a coveted seat to a passenger who may not turn up. In your case, I assume that priority was first given to the family with a baby as they had requested a skycot - for which you need a bulkhead?

Bulkhead & Exit seats are also on a request basis, not guaranteed. I do sympathise for your daughter, though you may be better off calling Special Assistance at VA, they usually handle disabled travellers and may be better placed to assist with securing appropriate seats, though there is still no guarantee.

Sorry to sound so negative, but there will be instances where the number of passengers requesting bulkheads outnumber the bulkheads and there is little any airline can do in that situation, hence Virgin covering themselves by saying 'if you cant sit in a standard seat - dont book'. It sounds harsh, but it is the reality i am afriad.

Thanks,
Sarah

Thanks Sarah, I did contact special assistance many time before the flight to ensure that they were aware of the situation. I also contacted them today to look for advice but did not get much joy, they actually left me feeling that my daughter's needs come second to families travelling with babies. I do feel this is unfair .

[Pete]

Originally posted by triciacarole
Thanks Sarah, I did contact special assistance many time before the flight to ensure that they were aware of the situation. I also contacted them today to look for advice but did not get much joy, they actually left me feeling that my daughter's needs come second to families travelling with babies. I do feel this is unfair .

An interesting question. I think Sarah raised the real core of the issue, and that's that the bulkhead seats are the only place where a skycot can be positioned, so in those circumstances I guess it means Virgin, at least, consider families with babies do get priority. The issue that is then raised is whether Virgin are obliged to offer facilities for their disabled passengers, and what rules exist around this subject. One for more research, methinks...

Pete

[HighFlyer]

AFAIK, Bulkheads are prioritised to families/babies when a skycot is booked.

If you do feel that this is unfair, perhaps sending a letter to the Special Assistance department might help voice your concerns, though as has already been said, there are only a limited number of bulkheads to allocate and check-in would have allocated in the manner they felt appropriate (rightly or wrongly, to babies). As this is the first time you have not received the bulkhead you probably are quite lucky to have been allocated it those other times as I can only imagine the number of requests on the MCO route as it is so popular with families and children.

Thanks,
Sarah

[Neil]

The problem is, somebody has to have priority, either babies or people with disabilities, but at the end of the day somebody will not be happy, I guess it all depends on which side of the fence you sit. Would be interested to hear the offical VS policy on this.

Neil:)

Originally posted by pixuk

Originally posted by triciacarole
Thanks Sarah, I did contact special assistance many time before the flight to ensure that they were aware of the situation. I also contacted them today to look for advice but did not get much joy, they actually left me feeling that my daughter's needs come second to families travelling with babies. I do feel this is unfair .

An interesting question. I think Sarah raised the real core of the issue, and that's that the bulkhead seats are the only place where a skycot can be positioned, so in those circumstances I guess it means Virgin, at least, consider families with babies do get priority. The issue that is then raised is whether Virgin are obliged to offer facilities for their disabled passengers, and what rules exist around this subject. One for more research, methinks...

Pete

I do wonder if this could be classed as discrimination. Are they not obliged to have some kind of allocation for disabled pax, however with a company this size I guess they have already looked into it.

[preiffer]

Sorry, but I don't see how they're discriminating against you in the slightest. While they haven't guaranteed you a bulkhead seat, they HAVE indicated that they will resolve the issue to the best of their abilities on the day.

What if others with more severe needs (speaking from a perspective of someone who doesn't know the detail in your case) also need those very limited seats on that flight? - Surely they'd be "discriminating" against them if you had them guaranteed? [:?]

If we were to go to the theatre we could book a disabled seat, if another disabled person came along wanting to book a disabled seat and they were all gone they would chose another date, there would not be bother at the box office on the date as to who deserved the seat the most.

[Neil]

The problem is the limited number of Bulkheads and the fact that they are required, for different reasons, for a lot of pax, obviously also as you fly PE then you can only have the PE bulkhead, when there could be a Y bulkhead free!

I however agree that this could not be classed as discrimination just because on a specific flight on a specific day they could not give you what you wanted (but could give you what you paid for)

My thoughts on discrimination are that they will not allow a disabled seat to be booked, you can only book standard seats and hope you get a bulkhead.

Originally posted by triciacarole
If we were to go to the theatre we could book a disabled seat, if another disabled person came along wanting to book a disabled seat and they were all gone they would chose another date, there would not be bother at the box office on the date as to who deserved the seat the most.

And there in lies the problem... Other airlines do allow you to prebook exit or bulkhead seats! And so they should.

And on the day if someone more "deserving" turns up in the knowledge that their first choice was not available when they booked, the crew asks you nicely if you wouldn't mind moving. It's happened to me, sadly J was full but the crew were very apologetic, and I was in a good mood.

[Neil]

Originally posted by PVGSLF
And there in lies the problem... Other airlines do allow you to prebook exit or bulkhead seats! And so they should.

Can't agree there, why should I be able to pre book a BH and then it not allow a mum and baby to use it (if I was awkward and didnt want to move) especially as a lot of the ones who do allow you to do this charge for it.

Originally posted by PVGSLF

Originally posted by triciacarole
If we were to go to the theatre we could book a disabled seat, if another disabled person came along wanting to book a disabled seat and they were all gone they would chose another date, there would not be bother at the box office on the date as to who deserved the seat the most.

And there in lies the problem... Other airlines do allow you to prebook exit or bulkhead seats! And so they should.

And on the day if someone more "deserving" turns up in the knowledge that their first choice was not available when they booked, the crew asks you nicely if you wouldn't mind moving. It's happened to me, sadly J was full but the crew were very apologetic, and I was in a good mood.

Thank you, you can 'hear' me .

I have been saving miles madly so I can afford companion seats for my daughter to travel in PE with Virgin, I must say I am becoming disillusioned with them over this matter and for future trips may look at other airlines that will allow us to book a disabled seat.

Yes I can hear exactly what you are saying... And disagree with Attitude.
I try to book my journey. If the type of seat I want isn't available I maybe decide to book for another day, or on another airline.

The principle applies to different classes as well as bulkheads and exits. If I specifically want a PE or a UC seat and there are none avaialble at the time I book I decide to fly another day, unless I really must travel that day in which case I book Y and hope to upgrade at the airport.

If I'm a parent and need a skycot for my offspring, or disabled and want a little more room, or indeed tall and not wanting to start a fight over reclining seats why can't I make an informed decision when I initially book. It isn't rocket science, its simple customer satisfaction.
I've flown with my kids when they were young, and becuase of the stupid "allocated at check-in" procedure, I had to fly 8 hours with a baby on my lap in a normal Y seat.... Maybe I would have chosen to fly another day if I knew this at time of booking!

I just hate the thought of my daughter being in pain for 9 hours as she is unable to move her limbs freely .

[Decker]

International travel is not covered by the DDA. It would seem that the most sensible thing to do in future regretfully is to book with airlines who allow you to book these seats and then hope that when you turn up there isn't someone whose needs are greater meaning you get moved. Bottom line is a seat booking is an expression of preference not a guarantee.

Originally posted by Decker
International travel is not covered by the DDA. It would seem that the most sensible thing to do in future regretfully is to book with airlines who allow you to book these seats and then hope that when you turn up there isn't someone whose needs are greater meaning you get moved. Bottom line is a seat booking is an expression of preference not a guarantee.

That is sad to know

[Decker]

The airline industry operates under voluntary guidelines which are published here.

Originally posted by Decker
.... Bottom line is a seat booking is an expression of preference not a guarantee.

Why can't it be a guarantee, (subject of course to operational changes)?
it surely isn't so difficult to acheive. The can generally do it for food!

[Pete]

Whilst DDA doesn't cover international travel, it does look like the majority of airlines have signed up to the Access to Air Travel for Disabled People code of practice, in which it has a whole section on this;

4.23 Disabled people, on production (where appropriate) of supporting evidence, should be permitted to pre-book seats. Those arrangements should be communicated to airport ground staff and cabin crew, for both outward and return flights.
4.24 Where evidence is required, the airline should have their own policy in place for dealing with such requests and should make that information generally known to passengers in advance.
4.26 There have been occasions when disabled people have requested a seat in a particular area (e.g. in a bulkhead seat) and have then been advised that their seat may be allocated to someone else at short notice. This has occurred when the airline regards someone else as having a greater need. As a general principle, whenever possible such seats should be allocated on a Òfirst come, first servedÓ basis (i.e. if the disabled person books first the seat is allocated to them, and vice-versa).
4.27 Airport check-in staff should be informed of any seat reservations to ensure that the seat allocated to the disabled passenger is not reallocated before the minimum check-in time for the flight. Cabin crew should be advised not to reallocate a seat on board unless the seat is occupied by a non-disabled passenger and a disabled passenger or someone with a young baby needs the seat.

Picking through that, it would seem Virgin are within the guidelines, but not exactly going out of their way.

I think pre-allocating bulkheads to those with clear evidence of need is a good idea, on a first-come, first-served basis. Obviously Virgin must have given this some consideration, as it's a suggestion in the code, but must have a reason not to offer it. Perhaps you could call their Special Assistance folks again and ask them why? I'd be interested to hear their response.

Pete

[Neil]

Originally posted by PVGSLF

Originally posted by Decker
.... Bottom line is a seat booking is an expression of preference not a guarantee.

Why can't it be a guarantee, (subject of course to operational changes)?
it surely isn't so difficult to acheive. The can generally do it for food!

Commercial decision maybe? Whilst some will agree with you I am sure many wont, the airline does what it thinks is best, obviously VS feel this is the correct way to allocate the Bulkheads.

[Neil]

Originally posted by triciacarole
I just hate the thought of my daughter being in pain for 9 hours as she is unable to move her limbs freely .

Just one this point, as mentioned earlier, how much more space will you actually get in a bulkhead, 1/2"more?? and on the A346 maybe not even that, surely a standard aisle PE seat is a very very good alternative and should surely enable your daughter to be able to move freely.

Neil

Originally posted by Attitude23

Originally posted by triciacarole
I just hate the thought of my daughter being in pain for 9 hours as she is unable to move her limbs freely .

Just one this point, as mentioned earlier, how much more space will you actually get in a bulkhead, 1/2"more?? and on the A346 maybe not even that, surely a standard aisle PE seat is a very very good alternative and should surely enable your daughter to be able to move freely.

Neil

My daughter, who is 5'2" needs to be able to stretch her legs out straight infront of her, she has arthritis and can easily stiffen and then experience great pain, the standard p.e. seats are not big enough for this.