Important announcement about V-Flyer membership.

First off I would just like to say a big thank you to pixuk and all the other moderators for finally coming to a decision which I think is the best way forward for the site. It is a great resource and it would be a real shame to see a site like this die so congratulations [^]

Secondly I am taking this opportunity to pledge my future to the site and will gladly pay any membership fees as and when they are due (and thats coming from someone whos only 17!)

Thirdly from the improvements I've sene so far I think that the right decision has been made and I look forward to seeing, and taking part in, any other improvements which may be in the pipeline.

Let this be the first of many happy years of growth to come. [y]

Alex

Thanks, Pete[y]

I think these changes will all be for the better and hopefully make the site more sustainable in the long term for both its members and Pete + mods.

VS.

V-Flyer has already cost me several thousand pounds of my own money due to the information I found when I wanted to fly UC. I can't turn right anymore on long haul.
Then there are the functions, I want them all, PCP,s Boat trips, Vegas, Farnborough, or just a piss up in the pub.

And to makes matters worse I live outside the UK.

Someone help me please[:p]

See you in 2 weeks

My Name is Iain and I am a V-Flyer

I wholly support the moves of you folk who commit such time and resource to running what is both an amazing community and a uniquely valuable source of information.

As things move forward, and bearing in mind that the change in membership pricing represents a large increase in cost for some members, it would of course be good to see added incentives that represent the value of the increased cost. I feel sure that the changes evident are but the start of this.

Before anyone jumps me, I don't view that added cost as negative, more that it better reflects the benefits.

On the issue of widening the scope to other airlines, I'm not so sure about that one - I feel it potentially could dilute the community aspect. I hope you all keep it under review?

[Pete]

slinky09 - points well made and noted. The 'extra incentives' part of your post are certainly something we are aiming for.

As for the other airlines potentially diluting our little community, on the face of it that may be a concern; but it's a fact of life that we all travel on other airlines out of the UK from time to time, so having an area where we can discuss those carriers in a "V-Flyer Style" (whatever that means!) is a positive thing. At the moment, this actually means nothing more than extending the 'Other Airlines' forum to give BA & bmi their own homes. In the future, if the data is available (and of interest to the membership), we may add seatmaps and/or flight info. But that's a potential future which hasn't been written yet; so certainly under review. I don't think any of us to see V-Flyer lose its core focus on Virgin Atlantic - but its nice to think of BA of ancillary interest to that .

does anyone think it would be a good idea to publish the v-flyer accounts?

To publish or not is a question for pete. However the numbers are so clearly negative (ie cash outflow, you only need to work it out on the back of a fag packet) that I for one don't need to see them - And I quite enjoy reading accounts!

[mcmbenjamin]

Is there a link to give more funds if a member wants to?

At the end of the day the Moderators and Pete/Richard could have just made the changes with no notification to anyone - after all they are the ones who do the programming, sort out the crappy posts, ensure some sort of decorum and give a general steer to the site - for that they should not only be applauded but bloody well congratulated. How many of us spend our own UNPAID time doing something that has such a huge benefit to so many others.

But no - they choose to inform us of what is coming to encourage debate and do a final "reality check" that things are moving in the right direction. I know that this issue of site membership has been discussed back and forth for many months and as I said earlier it was not an option to "do nothing!!" Im sure Paul(preiffer) didnt mean to come across as sarcastic but a great deal of his personal time is devoted to doing this and I guess it probably felt a bit like a kick in the teeth!!

Lets roll with the changes ladies and gentlemen and celebrate the dawn of a new and improved V-flyer - and as Pete, Chuck and others have said - if it all goes pear shaped then at least we tried!!! ( and then we can try something else!!)

How much money and time have we saved thru using this site - and how much fun have we had as a result!! Even Porsche911 makes me laugh and I never would have found him if it werent for this site!!!

[mitchja]

Originally posted by mcmbenjamin
Is there a link to give more funds if a member wants to?

Ben

It's at the top of the forums page when viewing All Forums

Regards

Good point, Paul. If someone is using the site to try and find how to get a cheaper fare, then the saving they make will probably be a lot more than the three quid they paid for membership.

VS.

[mcmbenjamin]

Originally posted by mitchja

Ben

It's at the top of the forums page when viewing All Forums

Regards

Thanks a bunch there James. Donation sent.

Bennie Koz

Originally posted by p17blo

Originally posted by preiffer

...never paid a penny for any forum in my life. I thought discussions on open forum should always be free.

No worries - see ya!

And that is just bang out of order.[V]

Paul

preiffer, Decker and all mods,

I do apologise if you feel my early post was offensive. I was simply telling my personal experience, wasn't trying to abuse this forum. It is a fact that I never paid for any forum.

Decker is right, I've never run my own forum before and never calculated the costs associated with it. But personally I am moderator (or slightly different names) for two large social forums, I am helping other people everyday (and night) and never received or asked a penny (this is probably the reason why I've never paid for any forum, and I've never thought about the reason before). I still believe the balance between take and give in the whole society. Yes, it is old fashion, I know, but that's just me.

Yes, I did get very useful information from this site. I've never dinied that and really appreciate the answers that people gave me. I did say it in my early post "I have great respect on mods." I should say plus all people gave valuable answers and asking great questions.

I was just want to speak out on this issue. There are 197,112 un-registered users (200,000-2,888) around, who like me will make our decisions in the next few weeks (or months). Either paying for the site or seek alternatives (or perhaps sit back and "watch" this site). This is the fact that once you make the changes. Why not allow different opinions? Not everyone have to say yes plus good words, especially on a forum.

Really no need to be agressive. If you think there are great things to offer from this site (and I do think there are), educate me or others in a nice way, more people may pay for it (for me, it will be the first time). Getting agressive on this sensitive issue is not clever on basic PR term, and remember there are 197,112 people watching. The point is, trying to encourage more people to join this great site, rather than turn them away.

Sorry preiffer, I don't normally use words as strong as this.

I still believe asking a question is a great contribution to an online forum, as well as answering a question.

Snow

[honey lamb]

How much money and time have we saved thru using this site

I haven't saved anything. In fact I'm severely out of pocket as I've got a severe case of UC-itis [:w]

and how much fun have we had as a result!!

Yes, I'll go with that! It has been fun!

[Pete]

Originally posted by Snow


I do apologise if you feel my early post was offensive. I was simply telling my personal experience, wasn't trying to abuse this forum. It is a fact that I never paid for any forum.

Decker is right, I've never run my own forum before and never calculated the costs associated with it. But personally I am moderator (or slightly different names) for two large social forums, I am helping other people everyday (and night) and never received or asked a penny (this is probably the reason why I've never paid for any forum, and I've never thought about the reason before). I still believe the balance between take and give in the whole society. Yes, it is old fashion, I know, but that's just me.

Ah, I think I see where you might be getting a little confused. On V-Flyer too, none of the moderators are paid for their time, nor are your peers who may chip in with information. Unfortunately that's not the case for the ISPs who need payment regardless of the altruism involved. And as the popularity of a site goes up, so do the costs.

Originally posted by Snow

I was just want to speak out on this issue. There are 197,112 un-registered users (200,000-2,888) around, who like me will make our decisions in the next few weeks (or months). Either paying for the site or seek alternatives (or perhaps sit back and "watch" this site). This is the fact that once you make the changes. Why not allow different opinions? Not everyone have to say yes plus good words, especially on a forum.

Your example is used incorrectly. Those 197,112 visitors are using the site in exactly the way this new model intends. They are finding their answers without asking a specific question (because they are not registered to post in the forums). They won't need to 'seek alternatives'.

This model may or may not work, but given it has been thrashed out amongst the longest-serving members of the community here, it's implementation is not up for negotiation. I'm sorry if you thought preiffer's comment harsh, but to deny there is a cost involved in providing information (which you have admitted you have benefited from), and leave it to others to pay is a slap in the face to that altruistic pedestal you sit on.

Pete

[Scrooge]

I had a chance to sit down and talk with Pete a little while ago, I won't go into numbers, but let me put it this way, if it was not for him and a few others there is no way this site would be here, I sure as hell would not of paid the type of bill's that have come their way out of my own pocket, to those people (you know who you are) I bow to you [oo].

As a mod I can tell you that we knew there would be some backlash to this move, however there comes a point at which the site has to start taking care of itself, monies made from social events, ad's and memberships are plowed back into the site, with the type of growth the site has gone through in the last 18 months changes were needed, we all may well remember the problems we went through in the summer with the site dropping due to bandwidth/ server issues, do we want to see that again? More forums and features are being added for members, with a little luck and hard work from those behind the scenes this will lead to a better site, but in order to get to that point we do need the support of the membership.

There are other site's on the net that offer up airline info, A'Net and is a good example many of these have a pay to post model as well, when you look at their pricing structure V-Flyer looks like a bargain link.

The one thing that set's V-Flyer apart from other sites is the "family" atmosphere, sure at times it is a highly dis-functional family, but what good ones are not [?]

Anyways to all, I ask that you sit down for a few minutes, think how much this site offers and figure out for yourselves is spending a couple of quid to support it is worth it, if it is then great, if not then oh well, I hope that you still visit and read the forums you can see, who knows you may find something that makes you think again.

[Decker]

Snow

You make an interesting point. I'll personalise this and drop out of "cloaked mod" mode. You mod on other forums which obviously are self sufficient. Do you know why they are self sufficient? Are they sponsored by a third party? Do ads on the site REALLY pay for the upkeep? If they really do run at a profit could you help this site to do the same? I run another site which will never be self sufficient as I'm a "fan" there and so the site is paid for by the site sponsor.

As a mod I still paid for membership of this site because (having spent 26+ years in IT) I know that at the end of the day SOMEONE has to pay for IT services. I love free info and I support free info - my company publishes a free VERY technical newsletter for its target market - a marketing decision. But currently no one is making money from V-Flyer and more importantly costs are not being covered. This is inequitable. The mods obviously (as you know from personal experience) work for free. But the costs have to be met from somewhere.

Thank you for continuing this discussion in a reasonable and polite manner. The opinion of our members (both paid and unpaid) is important to us but in the end financial considerations will have to take precedence over individual feelings.

Is it ethical, or even legal, to charge for the money saving ideas/tips/hidden offers you share?
What about the poorly paid VS CC member who has useful information but who will never be able to afford and therefore share their information?

[Pete]

Er, yes, of course it's both ethical and legal. Otherwise Which? magazine is in serious trouble.

Virgin cabin crew won't need to pay a subscription fee.

Does that address your concerns?

I am a member of Richmond Rugby club, which I pay a membership fee for. I am also a member of Andover Sports Club, and again I pay a fee for that. My membership of RORC costs me an arm and a leg. The Rear Admiral's Mother has made us Family Members of the Ventor Social Club (It used to be the wheel tapper's club, really!) which means we can go and have cheap beer and find out what's going on in Ventnor. But we pay a membership fee of course, albeit only £35/year.

In each case the fee has been paid without question because we felt it was worth the money to us. We didn't ask to see the accounts, or observe a committee meeting to see what happened to the money. We just accepted that there was a product for sale, and paid the required price because it was worth it to us.

On the other hand....I have not joined the Marlborough Conservative Club. The reason for this is simply that I don't want to (If anyone wants to discuss why this should be in the OT forum!). It is probably a very nice watering hole, but the membership does not IMO offer me much value.

So I find myself baffled that anyone would expect to get membership for free here at V-Flyer - You can look thru the doors and see what happens for free, but if you want to go further you have to pay, which is just the same rules as any other sort of club (yes even that sort of club!). To me it seems a simple decision - Either the asking price represents good value for you, or it doesn't. But it is the individuals choice. Pete and the team clearly hope that most people will think it a good proposition and will stay. Of course they may be wrong and people may leave in droves, in which case I expect they will do something about it. However IMHO I suspect they are not wrong.

This site was found by me entirely by accident, since then I got hooked on it, the info is invaluable on many levels from VA to well loads of stuff, never heard of Bose QC3s untill reading it here, didn't have a clue about the many ways to earn miles etc.

After getting to know people more I decided I wanted to be a part of this community rather than a "user" of it. I even made a donation on top of membership, the fact is if this site is consistantly of benefit to you and you want to consistantly take advantage of it then you need to pay the asking price as stated by the owner
( or person(s)) who took the initial risk setting it up, bit like real life in business in commerse. If your considered opinion ( and by that I don't mean some selfish harkback to communist ideals that everything should be free ( as long as you don't have to give your time and money away ) your considered opinion anyway is that the price isn't worth the product, then don't pay and stay away.

Couple of points, donators should get some confirmation when they make a donation as I remember mine wasn't automatically acknowledged
and or even a little icon to show they have been or are donators over and above paying membership.

I think paying members might be given a more lenient approach from mods if they are newer, for instance even after more than a year I can still make mistakes The BA forum on another site I wouldn't dare join in some of the put downs I read that are given in answer to some posters questions, certainly wouldn't pay to be slapped down on there

Also why can't new visitors just be given may be one weeks full membership status for lets say 5 days and then offered the chance to join before the privilages run out. That will give them a chance to actually see the benefits in full in action.

Lastly I can't even remember how much this site is now and how I am paying, lol

On one hand, giving members free membership for a few days is a good idea as they can then see if they really want to join the site. However, if they only want one question answered, then they'll get that without paying, so I don't know where I stand on that one.

BTW, everyone who doesn't feel like paying, I hope you realise that Pete isn't running a charity here;)

VS.

Originally posted by easygoingeezer
for instance even after more than a year I can still make mistakes

BTW - You joined up in early Jan 2005, so that's over 2 years Egg! Time flies when you are having fun [y]

I was thinking one or two friendly free helpfull tips and a tour round the site was more likely to result in a future loyal long term member.

Originally posted by easygoingeezer
I was thinking one or two friendly free helpfull tips and a tour round the site was more likely to result in a future loyal long term member.

Sorry, I do agree with you about friendly helpfulness, and didn't mean to imply anything other than you have been a member for longer than you perhaps thought. Which I suppose is testament to VF.