Yes, thanks GJ; and to the other two generous members who sent through a donation yesterday (Who shall remain nameless in case they prefer anonymity!)
Pete
Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
As a ÒThank YouÓ to current paid up members they wonÕt be asked to re-subscribe until the first quarter of 2008.
Oooooh. [:?] Obviously I don't still have any documentation, but I believe(d?) my paid membership was a one-time purchase, though to be fair you didn't specifically use words like "permanent" at the time.
On the other hand:
* no, I don't have any better ideas about how to balance the books,
* you're far from the first web site to suffer so badly from finance issues that you've had to do something unpopular in order to make ends meet;
* I genuinely believe you when you say that you wouldn't do something like this if there were another way.
Actually, looking at it; yes, I do have a better idea about how to cut down the costs of running the site. Get rid of the countdown timers. Simply by no longer serving that bit of script in the HTML of every single forum page, you'll save a good two-and-a-quarter KB per forum page served. Obviously I don't know how many forum pages you serve and what proportion of site bandwidth that consumes, but when you multiply it up, it looks to me like you could be considerably more austere with site bandwidth by rearranging your asp as to what you do and don't serve with every single page, how you arrange your CSS and so on. There are probably other bandwidth savings you could make by cutting corners and eliminating redundancy in the HTML, changing frequently-repeated HTML snippets to recurring style specifications and so on. It's perfectly possible that such savings you could make here, though, would merely postpone the problem rather than eliminate it altogether.
Disappointedly, though not so much disappointed in the staff as disappointed that this has had to come about,
Chris
(Edited as link to Wayback Machine archive of V-Flyer page didn't work for some unidentifiable reason, though the forum code did look correct.)
Originally posted by dickoon
Actually, looking at it; yes, I do have a better idea about how to cut down the costs of running the site. Get rid of the countdown timers. Simply by no longer serving that bit of script in the HTML of every single forum page, you'll save a good two-and-a-quarter KB per forum page served. Obviously I don't know how many forum pages you serve and what proportion of site bandwidth that consumes, but when you multiply it up, it looks to me like you could be considerably more austere with site bandwidth by rearranging your asp as to what you do and don't serve with every single page, how you arrange your CSS and so on. There are probably other bandwidth savings you could make by cutting corners and eliminating redundancy in the HTML, changing frequently-repeated HTML snippets to recurring style specifications and so on. It's perfectly possible that such savings you could make here, though, would merely postpone the problem rather than eliminate it altogether.
Well, you're right of course; optimising the code would indeed reduce the bandwidth, but it would basically mean a re-write of the whole Snitz forum - and that would be quite a challenging task in unpaid development
. The countdown timers are indeed an overhead of our own making, but hey - they are popular with some folks (a little *too* popular with some... )Obviously there's a clear flaw in the old membership model in that one-off payments meant it was a shrinking percentage of the new members that was effectively funding the growing numbers of existing users. I hope this new subscription model will not only address that imbalance, but also put us on a firm financial footing to add more features and do more in the future. I'd dearly love to add some value-add services to the site using data feeds from third parties - but typically those are out of the reach of our current budget. ExpertFlyer, for instance, rents its data from various sources; but this is only possible because of its subscription model.
Pete
I think there's one other key point that Pete's indicated above, but I'd like to make entirely clear.
The new proposals do not mean that v-flyer makes a profit. As it stands, Pete's back pocket has been getting gradually thinner over the past few years, to the point where there's a bl**dy huge hole where there used to be a wallet, in financially supporting the site.
Why? Well, he, and the many moderators and members that give such a large proportion of their own time up for free to run the place, believe in it.
Where we need to get to is a position of being at least self sufficient - and at best, able to invest in new technology, more features, better facilities and benefits for members. At the moment, that's impossible.
Oh, and if anyone wants to simulate the costs involved in running the site*:
Aparatus:
A large number of £20 notes
A box of matches
Method:
Grab pile of £20 notes
Light match
Burn pile
* warning - v-flyer.com is not responsible for any bodily injury howsoever caused, as a result of performing this experiment.
We're all in this for the good of the site - don't forget that.
Nobody wants to see it fail - but reality check guys - without a steady, reliable, stream of income - the site will close.
Harsh words, but we're all able to add (or subtract) 2 and 2, aren't we?
The new proposals do not mean that v-flyer makes a profit. As it stands, Pete's back pocket has been getting gradually thinner over the past few years, to the point where there's a bl**dy huge hole where there used to be a wallet, in financially supporting the site.
Why? Well, he, and the many moderators and members that give such a large proportion of their own time up for free to run the place, believe in it.
Where we need to get to is a position of being at least self sufficient - and at best, able to invest in new technology, more features, better facilities and benefits for members. At the moment, that's impossible.
Oh, and if anyone wants to simulate the costs involved in running the site*:
Aparatus:
A large number of £20 notes
A box of matches
Method:
Grab pile of £20 notes
Light match
Burn pile
* warning - v-flyer.com is not responsible for any bodily injury howsoever caused, as a result of performing this experiment.
We're all in this for the good of the site - don't forget that.
Nobody wants to see it fail - but reality check guys - without a steady, reliable, stream of income - the site will close.
Harsh words, but we're all able to add (or subtract) 2 and 2, aren't we?
Originally posted by pixuk
it would basically mean a re-write of the whole Snitz forum - and that would be quite a challenging task in unpaid development
If you don't mind me asking, why was the Snitz forum picked in the first place, please? I don't have an axe to grind in favour of any other forum software and am well aware that every forum will have its drawbacks, but my preference would be that you spent your unpaid web development time on optimising the code, cutting down the bandwidth requirements and lowering the V-Flyer site costs rather than adding using the same amount of unpaid web development time to add new functionality to the site. Mind you, {s}he who codes the site gets to decide where {s}he spends her/his time, and I'm sure that adding new functionality is far more fun and interesting a coding task than slogging through and shaving a few hundred bytes per page off here and there.
I would say that I'm terribly surprised that all sorts of Snitz forum owners aren't kicking and screaming for solutions to lower the amount of bandwidth consumed, but it looks like the mod made in response to the problems hasn't been updated for a couple of years! [:(]
The move from a single-payment-based to subscription-based business model to permit extra rental of outside information is a sound one, but the greater the division of labour between reducing site bandwidth consumption and adding new features is biased in favour of reducing site bandwidth consumption, the more money you'll all have to play with for the new features. (Or the less loss you'll make.) ....and that's how you suck an egg, Grandma!
Do think again about the countdown timers, though, and work out the sums; is their popularity really worth GBP 10 / GBP 50 / GBP 100 a month in bandwidth costs?
All best,
Chris
Soz for double post, £50 winging its way to you via paypal[oo]
Originally posted by dickoon
If you don't mind me asking, why was the Snitz forum picked in the first place, please?
At the time it looked like a good option. It was ASP/VBScript based (ie, the code I know), and it looked like it had the basic functionality required at the time. Four years on, if I could chose the base forum code again, it probably wouldn't be Snitz. The drawbacks you may have read about it are probably all true. And there are far more advanced, and quite possibly far more efficient codebases out there now. But, this particular incarnation of Snitz has been modified and tweaked in so many ways to meet the specific features of V-Flyer, that trying to re-create it with a new codebase would be a large undertaking, and there are other priorities, plus the fact I really do have to maintain the day job (at least in part);)
Pete
I don't see anything wrong with changing the site fees! I pay out 5 years' worth of V-flyer in two dog show weekends just for entry fees. I didn't win yesterday, so that means I get a lot more for my money by V-flying! [:I]
It comes down to what you think the site's worth. I, for one, think it's definitely worth the cost of less than 2 lottery tickets a month. You get more for your money and it's usually a much more enjoyable time! (Not that I don't like dog shows, I just hate to lose).
FWIW, I wonder if a trial 7-day membership with one free question might help, but then you'd have people signing up with 5 different IDs to scam the system, so probably not.
Another moneymaker might be to sell ID tags. I was trying to purchase a silver kit for two more tags when the PayPal problem started. I'm asked about mine all the time, and I was going to sign up a friend (with a gift membership) to get her two of her own as well.
I know there's a thread in the CH about tags; how about it? Will it be a future option? Many people on here could use more than 2 tags, I'm certain.
[^][^]V-Flyer and those who keep it running! [y][:X][oo]
It comes down to what you think the site's worth. I, for one, think it's definitely worth the cost of less than 2 lottery tickets a month. You get more for your money and it's usually a much more enjoyable time! (Not that I don't like dog shows, I just hate to lose).
FWIW, I wonder if a trial 7-day membership with one free question might help, but then you'd have people signing up with 5 different IDs to scam the system, so probably not.
Another moneymaker might be to sell ID tags. I was trying to purchase a silver kit for two more tags when the PayPal problem started. I'm asked about mine all the time, and I was going to sign up a friend (with a gift membership) to get her two of her own as well.
I know there's a thread in the CH about tags; how about it? Will it be a future option? Many people on here could use more than 2 tags, I'm certain.
[^][^]V-Flyer and those who keep it running! [y][:X][oo]
I'd like to say a huge thank you to the team responsible for the site and the development that they carry out. I appreciate exactly what goes into developing a site like this and agree with the changes that are being made. Its great that the members have been informed and asked for opinions rather than just making changes as people have said before.
If Pete/Richard would like to get in touch then I'd be happy to discuss a couple of ideas I've had.
G.
If Pete/Richard would like to get in touch then I'd be happy to discuss a couple of ideas I've had.
G.
As part of the new features of the site, does anyone else think it would be a good idea to send each new member an electronic welcome pack via e-mail to point out certain aspects of the site, such as "What aircraft will I be on?" and IFE info in order to cut down on first-time posts like "What is v:port?"
If the poster wants, say, more specific info, they could then post a question with more info to go on already...
VS.
If the poster wants, say, more specific info, they could then post a question with more info to go on already...
VS.
Originally posted by VS045
As part of the new features of the site, does anyone else think it would be a good idea to send each new member an electronic welcome pack via e-mail to point out certain aspects of the site, such as "What aircraft will I be on?" and IFE info in order to cut down on first-time posts like "What is v:port?"
If the poster wants, say, more specific info, they could then post a question with more info to go on already...
VS.
We have something very similar written and ready to roll
. It is likely that all Forum Members will get a copy of this in due course so they can see what new members are being told.
i couldnt see this post anywhere so i am curious to know whether the membership will include the luggage tags
Originally posted by DeckerOriginally posted by VS045
As part of the new features of the site, does anyone else think it would be a good idea to send each new member an electronic welcome pack via e-mail to point out certain aspects of the site, such as "What aircraft will I be on?" and IFE info in order to cut down on first-time posts like "What is v:port?"
If the poster wants, say, more specific info, they could then post a question with more info to go on already...
VS.
I think though that we should steer away from accepting peoples money and then telling new members there are certain questions they shouldn't ask or make them feel foolish for asking, the whole point of this is the value of information and just because we might know an answer out of experience others legitimately might not. I would hate this site to become an elitist one like a certain BA forum.
I have to agree with EGG - I think a huge part of the attraction of this site is that whatever question you ask, be it a "will my a/c have V-Port" or a much more in depth question, is that 99% of the time you get a very quick, helpful response from friendly people which from a personal pov made me feel welcome and encouraged me to use the site more, which is surely what everybody wants.
Saying that, providing it is worded in a correct manner then I think VS045's is a good one and certainly can't harm.
Saying that, providing it is worded in a correct manner then I think VS045's is a good one and certainly can't harm.
Originally posted by virgin crazy
i couldnt see this post anywhere so i am curious to know whether the membership will include the luggage tags
No, the new subscriptions do not include luggage tags; although tags (in one form or another) may soon appear in the store for those that would still like them.
Pete
Originally posted by NottaCeleb
Is it ethical, or even legal, to charge for the money saving ideas/tips/hidden offers you share?
What about the poorly paid VS CC member who has useful information but who will never be able to afford and therefore share their information?
This was a joke post wasn't it?
My flabber has been gasted![:(!]
Originally posted by GrinningJackanapesOriginally posted by sailor99
You can look thru the doors and see what happens for free, but if you want to go further you have to pay, which is just the same rules as any other sort of club (yes even that sort of club!).
So Jeremy, does this mean I should look at every post I make as a lap dance? [}:)] I'll just have to post more!
GJ
No more amenity kits please [:w]
Iain
A welcome pack explaining the often most in demand parts of the site for new users would not be intimidating. Pointing out to new users that they can find out about v:port in a specific place will enable them to quickly and easily find answers to their questions without having to wait for (potentially false/incomplete) replies and be told by members that it is a stupid question and why on Earth did they not somehow telepathically look on the right page first;)
I welcome all contributions from users and believe that (almost;)) everyone on this site makes a valuable input.
VS
I welcome all contributions from users and believe that (almost;)) everyone on this site makes a valuable input.
VS
I host a few discussion sites, both for myself and for customers, and I can confirm that a popular site can have outrageous bandwidth costs. Luckily for me I don't have many popular sites! [:#]
So yes, as someone who hosts sites paid for by advertising and donations, I agree that a small payment is not too much to ask. There is no way for a site to pay for itself through the donation and advertising method, and I for one will be happy to buy a 5 yr membership.
So yes, as someone who hosts sites paid for by advertising and donations, I agree that a small payment is not too much to ask. There is no way for a site to pay for itself through the donation and advertising method, and I for one will be happy to buy a 5 yr membership.
Sorry if this has been answered, but I can't see anything.
I was looking forward to hitting 500 posts and getting my black tags, hopefully in time for my March trip. Under the new rules, whilst I would be happy to pay for 5 years membership, do I still get the tags? Or should I hang on and see what happens in the next month or two? [?]
TIA, Mike.
I was looking forward to hitting 500 posts and getting my black tags, hopefully in time for my March trip. Under the new rules, whilst I would be happy to pay for 5 years membership, do I still get the tags? Or should I hang on and see what happens in the next month or two? [?]
TIA, Mike.
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