Ideas for making Economy better?

We talk about how to improve UC, how about a thread on how to make Virgin's Economy product better than the opposition?

I would like to start with a radical idea.
There is not a lot you can do with regards to the seating pitch really in economy, but how about a Virgin Economy Clubhouse at LGW/MAN and LHR?

Would have to be large, but VS could possibly have the departure gates leading off it?

A cash bar and cash resturant, with cinema/tv lounge, games room for the kids, even a cash beauty parlour, or on evening flights how about eating in the clubhouse instead of carrying the food on the plane? how about a duty free section so agin, less material to carry back and forward?

It would make VS different to the other airlines, giving VS econ pax somewhere to sit and also for VS, keep their pax in a place where they can get them onboard easier, plus with the services being pay for, possibly make a profit?

To the econ pax, a better place to wait for your flight and a feeling of being in something special against other econ flights?

What do you all think?
Any other ideas?

Originally posted by AlanA
We talk about how to improve UC, how about a thread on how to make Virgin's Economy product better than the opposition?

Good idea for a thread Alan

I don't see why VS can't improve the seat pitch - ANZ offer 34"
If it means putting the prices up to offset the LOR then do so.
I'm sure every flight would still be able to generate the same revenue level as they do now, after all VS are not the cheapest in Y as it stands. So for a few £'s more and the promise of comfortable leg room for a long haul flight I don't believe VS would lose out.

Get back to basics with the service onboard. When I first flew VS in the early 90's you got that feeling that they just went the extra mile so to speak, recent flights seem to be very hit or miss when it comes down to service.

Jon B

[Pete]

Actually Alan, I have to say that's an excellent idea. The biggest barrier would obviously be space at the airport, and the BAA being able to dedicate enough gates to Virgin (although, I suspect in reality only a few would be needed and at very busy times additional gates could be used near to the lounge).

The upside for the passenger is extra facilities away from the scrum of the main terminal, and the win for Virgin is extra revenue opportunities pre-boarding.

Pete

[fozzyo]

Its all about Seat Pitch! The Charters are now exceeding VS and BA on this ... which has gotta be bad news on B&S routes. The service VS offer in Econ is really good, maybe some little tweaks - V:Port on all planes, better breakfast service etc.

An Economy Clubhouse ... the only way this would be feasible would be to make it for Premium Econ only. Just think how huge it would have to be to fit all those Econ pax! And for Premium if they wanted to add value to a full-fare ticket they could just include something like a ServisAir or equiv lounge for very little investment.

Mat

[mitchja]

Not sure if anyone else has spotted this, but VS are working to improve T3 at LHR, quoted from the VS web site:

CHANGES AT HEATHROW TERMINAL 3
Our check in and other passenger facilities at Heathrow are undergoing a massive transformation as part of the BAA's development of Heathrow's Terminal 3. The work will transform our check in area, creating a Virgin Atlantic terminal within Terminal 3 which will promise you a quick and seamless journey through the airport. The state-of-the-art facilities are due for completion at the end of 2007.

Throughout the development work, our check in area (A Zone) in Terminal 3 will be undergoing various stages of construction. We are working hard with the BAA to ensure that this work will cause the minimum of disruption but would advise you to check in online for your flight to keep your journey time to a minimum. We thank you in advance for your patience during this time.

Regards

I think it is a great idea, although it would have to be big. For example at MAN they would either have to take up half of T2 or maybe the whole of T3. T1 is out of the question.

As mentioned endless times in the past, if VS want to improve their Y product then they need to get donw to basics like improving the seat pitch (this will harm them on the B&S routes really badly) and completing the rollout of V:PORT to the LGW/MAN fleet and the remaining A340-300s, and sorting out the breakfasts as fozzyo has pointed out.

Originally posted by pixuk
Actually Alan, I have to say that's an excellent idea. The biggest barrier would obviously be space at the airport, and the BAA being able to dedicate enough gates to Virgin (although, I suspect in reality only a few would be needed and at very busy times additional gates could be used near to the lounge).

The upside for the passenger is extra facilities away from the scrum of the main terminal, and the win for Virgin is extra revenue opportunities pre-boarding.

Pete

Pete,
get the experts (i.e the mods) to work the idea over and fine tune it, then send it to Virgin as a V-Flyer suggestion?
It would show VS and the V-Flyer members how we can help to make VS a better airline (and possibly some hard cash to help run the site?)

Originally posted by VS075

As mentioned endless times in the past, if VS want to improve their Y product then they need to get donw to basics like improving the seat pitch (this will harm them on the B&S routes really badly) and completing the rollout of V:PORT to the LGW/MAN fleet and the remaining A340-300s, and sorting out the breakfasts as fozzyo has pointed out.

Agree totally, 75. Economy eat pitch and IFE and THE things where VS is being overtaken by charters.

Generally what everybody have said, increase seat pitch and V:Port on ALL planes. Bringing back ice-cream and menus (even on V:Port) would improve the overall product.

The overall economy product from VS is good compare to other airlines. Whether having a lounge for Y passengers is feasible is debateable.

Not sure the lounge would be of great value given the amount of PAX in there at anyone time

So that brings us nicely back to seat pitch....seat pitch ...seat pitch! get that right and you'll have many happy PAX in Y.

Of course the cynical side of me would say that if VS went to 34" in economy then maybe PE wouldn't be so attractive and they would have to offer extra there too [:w]

Jon B

Originally posted by Jon B
Not sure the lounge would be of great value given the amount of PAX in there at anyone time

So that brings us nicely back to seat pitch....seat pitch ...seat pitch! get that right and you'll have many happy PAX in Y.

Of course the cynical side of me would say that if VS went to 34" in economy then maybe PE wouldn't be so attractive and they would have to offer extra there too [:w]

Jon B

Jon, do you mean that there would be a lot of pax in the clubhouse, or that it would not be used?

Didn't American try increasing the seat picth to 34" and have now reverted back?

Is one of the problems the price of the econ ticket, that people are using, for example TCD with the same 32" seat pitch but without seatback TV's because they are cheaper than VS? To go to 34" seat picth would increase the cost of the ticket which is very difficult to do in this current economic climate and the "Cheap as chips" UK mentality? For those who want to pay a little more is there not the emergancy exits and PE? I wonder on a 747 how many seats would have to be taken out to get a 34" seat picth?

Also, I was not aware that the ice cream had been removed from the econ cabin. Is it still avialable in PE?

Hot towels, Menus, 2nd wines after the meals, Brandy/Bailies after dinner. A full drinks service after ice creams and then again after the hot snacks on long routes LAX SFO LAS NRT etc. The new seats on all a/c, in seat power and of course Vport for all, if this was done i think we would have the best Y product again! However think most of that will never happen with loads struggling and prices way too low just now Y is not making very much money - particularly on US routes where there is far too much capacity and not enough passangers! If the US govt stopped subsidising bankrupt airlines then perhaps this problem would go away - there product is rubbish anyway (rant over!)

Ice creams have not been removed... they are still on all day flights - pretty sure thats the way its always been!

Joey beat me to it.

I think the best way VS can improve Y is to bring it back to the standard of service it was 6-7 years ago. Menus, hot towels, baileys, have all over the years disapeared from the service. Given that even American carriers with often outdated services are offering a better product than VS we must be worried (Granted they do get Govt support) but Y drinks service and 2nd meal is often much better. Combine this with V Port throughout, better seat pitch, in seat power/USB points/Ipod connections throughout (a la VX and SQ/EK/CO/DL) then we are onto a real winner. I do find it rather amuzing that VX a low cost carrier are offering a better seat and IFE system than is currently on the B+S routes!!


It strikes me that VS has been out done by FCA et al and an airline that prides itself on setting the standards to which others aspire has been caught napping (or dare I say it basking in the glory of UCS). Whilst we all know that Y doesnt make any real money, VS would do well to remember that you have to look after Y customer as tomorrows UCS travelers are most probably traveling around in cattle now and a bad experience could turn them off for life.

Originally posted by AlanA

Originally posted by Jon B
Not sure the lounge would be of great value given the amount of PAX in there at anyone time

So that brings us nicely back to seat pitch....seat pitch ...seat pitch! get that right and you'll have many happy PAX in Y.

Of course the cynical side of me would say that if VS went to 34" in economy then maybe PE wouldn't be so attractive and they would have to offer extra there too [:w]

Jon B

Jon, do you mean that there would be a lot of pax in the clubhouse, or that it would not be used?

Didn't American try increasing the seat picth to 34" and have now reverted back?

Is one of the problems the price of the econ ticket, that people are using, for example TCD with the same 32" seat pitch but without seatback TV's because they are cheaper than VS? To go to 34" seat picth would increase the cost of the ticket which is very difficult to do in this current economic climate and the "Cheap as chips" UK mentality? For those who want to pay a little more is there not the emergancy exits and PE? I wonder on a 747 how many seats would have to be taken out to get a 34" seat picth?

Sheer no of Econ Pax using a Y clubhouse would be the issue Alan. After all the clubhouse idea is supposed to be a haven where you can relax and be pampered. The idea of 600 or so, maybe more (flights leaving at similar times) people crammed into a clubhouse doesn't seem to inviting.

As for the seat pitch - good pre-launch marketing of the product would tell if the idea would work. Certainly there are enough people filling the very cramped 31" seats as they are now so Virgin would say why change....

But going back to basics and offering the customer what they want and being ahead (if not level)is the key. Look at how many bad reviews you read about VS on other sites, most always complain about seat pitch

using a format of the 747 LHR
- currently 306 in Y at a fare of say £369 to JFK = £112,914
- move to 266 in Y at a fare of £424 to JFK = £112,784

Increase = £55.00 P/P

Of course VS would be using less fuel to make the run so there could be a small saving there [:w]

Either way that would solve probably the No 1 gripe of Y PAX

Jon B

I donÕt want to knock the idea of an Economy Clubhouse but when flights are delayed and you get unhappy, stressed and often inexperienced passengers in one place I would imagine that it would be a nightmare to manage.

Mood Lighting in W and Y would deffently up the product and it doesnt cost that much as re-fitting IFE and reconfigurating and entire Aircraft.

^^There already is an Economy Clubhouse.

It's called the 'Departure Lounge'.

But if you're thinking about altering the service by having more drinks services/snack services as someone has suggested remember that's extra catering and extra weight which in push up ticket prices!

I've just got back from SIN with BA in World Traveller and the food and entertainment was awful, and made me thankful for what i get with VS in Y.

I think having a more consistant level of service in the Economy cabin is all that's needed. At the moment it's too hit and miss although they are trying to improve it!

Every aircraft having V-Port would be a start!

I really don't think that a Y CH is the way to go. VS are infamous for ignoring the basics; building a Y loung while skipping other more rudimentary areas of the product seems a little backward to me.

At the moment, VS needs to work on things like a more substantial second service/breakfast for longer routes and standardising IFE.

VS.

It's becoming an interesting debate this. I do hope VS look at these pages as there is a general disatisfaction with particular sections of the econ service coming out.
It might be worth also seeing what other forums (non Airline based parhaps?) think are the ideal products for the best economy service.

Just got back from Tokyo flying in Y class... Would say that aside from the seat pitch, the food/IFE and most especially the service onboard were all excellent in both directions...maybe it's the mostly Japanese cabin crew that do it? Couldn't really fault it, I'll try and club together some kind of trip report when I've had some sleep!

Scott