Virgin Atlantic orders Dreamliners

Ok right I feel the need for a catch up:

Originally posted by PVGSLF
Interesting point about direct flights from the UK to Hawaii

From Great Circle Mapper

LHR-HNL = 7237
SIN-EWR (Already a scheduled route for SQ) = 9535

So it aint that long, and technology is already available.

True but (as Scrooge correctly points out) the SQ 345 is heavily restricted. It has less cargo ability due to extra fuel tanks and the a/c only has 155 seats compared to the 340 odd that can fit in a non weight restricted 345.

Originally posted by VS45
I think it's an order made for entirely the wrong reasons

Interesting points 45- I am happy that VS has ordered them but am worried. My worries are that:
a: VS are just jumping on the band wagon
b: SRB has done it to look green
c: where does the 787 fit in the fleet.

I think Airbus shot themselves in the foot- VS has been very loyal to Airbus in recent years- its the 3rd largest 340 operator in the world and is one of handful going for the 380- but the farce over the 380 turned VS off the 350. The original 350 was also a joke when launched as a paper airline. So I dont blame VS for going for the 787 over the 350- I guess at the end of the day they were fed up with Airbus playing silly games.


But in all honesty- how is this a/c going to fit into the VS fleet. VS have no comparable a/c in the fleet at the moment. Im just worried that VS will not have enough capacity- had the order been for say 787s and 77W or 748 then maybe I would be a little happier.


And as for the whole biofuel stuff- that is just SRB jumping on the "Be Green" wagon....

Well after nearly 24 hours I still cant believe that V/A has gone for the 787. Yes I can see SRB's ethos in wanting to portray a greener airline but I think there is a fundamental argument against the 787 due to its low passenger capacity on long haul routs surely this will have an effect on actual flight number's to meet demand on popular destinations.

I can not see people wanting to be stuck in a Y cabin for flights lasting 9 and 10Hrs plus, unless virgin go for a high capacity J+W cabins and move away from High capacity Y.

Boeing do make greater aircraft and I am a very big fan of the 747 but still I think SRB appears to be running after P/R rather than looking at the overall picture.

Also I am slightly worried about the current 11,500 Airbus employees in the UK plus the many thousands of associated businesses in the U.K who provide parts to airbus. If airlines keep walking away from Airbus then I am sure it wont be too long before we see an adverse effect on Airbus employees all over Europe.

Virgin have shouted loudly about being BritainÕs Flag Carrier, This statement to me means more than just putting a flag on a aircraft, But it seems that V/S may just see it as that?

Yesterdays announcement by V/A comes at the front of an announcement due within the next few days that US Airways are walking away from their order for 20 A350's in favour of an order for the 787.

Who will be next?

Will V/S cancel the A380 order all together? I do hope not.

I would love to see 748Õs and A380Õs making the backbone of the V/S fleet maybe with room for a few A330Õs or A350Õs to complement them.

Jerseyboy

Originally posted by jerseyboy

Will V/S cancel the A380 order all together? I do hope not.

One would hope not- if they do then its a MASSIVE error on the part of VS. I just hope there is no lack of capacity.

By 2014 we will be hopefully looking at a fleet that is:

6 x A380
10 x 787 (ball park figure as dont know delivery dates)
19 x 346 (plus options)

No idea on the 744's but I would guess by then they will be leaving the fleet. We can roughly guess that when the 744s leave then some 346's will be transfered over to LGW and prob put in a high Y/W config. Also am persuming that the 343s are all gone by then as well.

Really I think with a fleet like that VS will have all bases covered. 380 for large density routes. 787 for niche routes and route proving plus high J class routes (so LHR-SEA, LHR-JFK etc) and then the 346 will pick up the rest of the slack with 2 diff configs. WHat maybe missing is a smaller a/c to operate b+s routes out of LGW- for example the 330/787 would fit great on LHR-NAS which has been a disaster on the 744. Maybe we will see some 787s over at LGW.

It will be very interesting times for VS.

Originally posted by jerseyboy


Also I am slightly worried about the current 11,500 Airbus employees in the UK plus the many thousands of associated businesses in the U.K who provide parts to airbus. If airlines keep walking away from Airbus then I am sure it wont be too long before we see an adverse effect on Airbus employees all over Europe.

Jerseyboy,
I wish people who buy foreign cars and other foreign produced goods had the same attitude to you in that case.
Then we would not have seen 2 Million manufacturing jobs lost in this country over the past ten years.
We are in a worldwide economy now, and well, why should Airbus employees in their foriegn produced cars and watching their foriegn produced TVs talking to their banks call centres in India be any different to the millions of others who have had their careers removed to foreign lands?

[Scrooge]

Just to drag the thread back on topic...

In the end the reasons for the 787 are many

Mostly the lower fuel bill.
LHR fragmenting so less need for large aircraft.
New aircraft that will be around for a few years to come.

Oh yeah and going green.

Originally posted by Scrooge
Just to drag the thread back on topic...

In the end the reasons for the 787 are many

Mostly the lower fuel bill.
LHR fragmenting so less need for large aircraft.
New aircraft that will be around for a few years to come.

Oh yeah and going green.

How much would the current favourable exchange rate figure in a deal of this size? Would it be priced at a fixed rate or would VS pay the prevailing rate on the day of delivery?

Phil FM

[Scrooge]

Darn good question, I would assume they would pay on delivery, but I don't know if the exchange rate is fixed right now....anyone?

Are they buying them or leasing them through a third party?

[Scrooge]

Buying direct

15 firm orders for the 789
8 options for the 789
20 purchase rights for unspecified models.

Originally posted by AlanA

Originally posted by jerseyboy


Also I am slightly worried about the current 11,500 Airbus employees in the UK plus the many thousands of associated businesses in the U.K who provide parts to airbus. If airlines keep walking away from Airbus then I am sure it wont be too long before we see an adverse effect on Airbus employees all over Europe.

Jerseyboy,
I wish people who buy foreign cars and other foreign produced goods had the same attitude to you in that case.
Then we would not have seen 2 Million manufacturing jobs lost in this country over the past ten years.
We are in a worldwide economy now, and well, why should Airbus employees in their foriegn produced cars and watching their foriegn produced TVs talking to their banks call centres in India be any different to the millions of others who have had their careers removed to foreign lands?

Alan I know that itÕs all about consumer choice.

I drive Honda cars made mainly in the U.K, I bank with Nat West who have a call centre 1/4 mile away from my house and most of my electrical items are Panasonic, many of which are MADE IN WALES I fly British Airlines and I always source local food produce for my organisation. People can make a difference if they so wish

The point I was making about V/A was their big campaign about being BritainÕs flag carrier, and I was merely stating that to carry the flag should mean more than just sticking it on an aircraft for the sake of PR.

I was in no way trying to state that we should be against the global market place and all the advantages that it brings with it, I was however voicing concerns for airbus who seem to have hit on poor times at the moment and I for one would not like to see too many airlines walking away from airbus because previous management mage a huge B***s up with the A380 programme and the launch of the A350 programme.

I hope airlines will remember the good times and the implication of Very Bad times, which may be just around the corner for airbus if the A380 and A350 programmes flop.

However saying that I do wish that V/S would sometime in the future commit to the B747-800.

Cheers
Jerseyboy

[Pete]

Originally posted by Scrooge
Buying direct

15 firm orders for the 789
8 options for the 789
20 purchase rights for unspecified models.

I've always wanted to clarify this;

what's the difference between 'options' and 'purchase rights'?

[Scrooge]

Options have construction slots allocated, purchase rights don't, they just keep your place in line at a negotiated price...I think..please someone correct me if I am wrong.

[Scrooge]

Just sitting here and a thought hit my mind.

If the 787 does not hit it's expected performance targets Boeing is in deep trouble, they have 600+ orders for this plane and the first one is not even built yet.

[Pete]

Um, yes. If they experience the kind of issues Airbus ran into with the A380, that's a lot of people to piss off.

[Scrooge]

I came across THIS

Interesting reading.

[Darren Wheeler]

""Bioeffluence"

I read through all the posts and the great news story posted on V-flyer - and I have come to the conclusion that I am not really that bothered about what make or type of aircraft VS use - I think its more important to see what the cabin layout will be and the facilities we get as passengers when we get on board. After all - an aircraft will (hopefully) get us safely from A to B - but the service we get from Customer services through to getting our luggage at the ariival airport are, to me, the key issues.

[Scrooge]

Mark you are obviously not a plane nerd..get out of here right now [:p]

Truth be told you are probably right...but nobody likes a kill joy [:(!]

Originally posted by AlanA
Are they buying them or leasing them through a third party?

I think I can provide a bit of info on this....as this was the line of work my Father was involved in for many years. Basically what will happen is VS will buy the planes direct but a major bank will provide all the finance for the a/c. So really- the a/c is owned by the bank. My father did a lot of work with the original BA 777s and this was how they were financed and was often approached by VS for financing.

[i]Originally posted by MarkJ[/1]
and I have come to the conclusion that I am not really that bothered about what make or type of aircraft VS use

Thats the great thing about this site- is the mix of people! I think its really born out of the fact that other plane geek sites dedicated to VS fell by the wayside and V-Flyer emerged as the daddy of everything to do with VS. I certainly think the cross section adds true value to the site......

Originally posted by Scrooge
Mark you are obviously not a plane nerd..get out of here right now [:p]

Truth be told you are probably right...but nobody likes a kill joy [:(!]

Well I thought it was bad enough being a :-

Man Utd nerd
VS Nerd
Food nerd
Coffee nerd
Disney Nerd

That I was nerdy enough.

So to all you plane nerds - ENJOY your nerdiness!!

[Scrooge]

Originally posted by MarkJ

Originally posted by Scrooge
Mark you are obviously not a plane nerd..get out of here right now [:p]

Truth be told you are probably right...but nobody likes a kill joy [:(!]

Well I thought it was bad enough being a :-

Man Utd nerd
VS Nerd
Food nerd
Coffee nerd
Disney Nerd

That I was nerdy enough.

So to all you plane nerds - ENJOY your nerdiness!!

LMFAO [oo]

I really hope the 744s don't go soon. VS at least needs something with an upper deck;)

VS.

From what i can gather they will all be leased, i think you'll find VS own very few of their aircraft & i can't see that changing in the next 5 years!!!!

[Darren Wheeler]

Originally posted by VS045
I really hope the 744s don't go soon. VS at least needs something with an upper deck;)

VS.

Perhaps they could install a form of conservatory on top. Upper Deck with panoramic views [^]

[mcmbenjamin]

Originally posted by AlanA

Originally posted by jerseyboy


Also I am slightly worried about the current 11,500 Airbus employees in the UK plus the many thousands of associated businesses in the U.K who provide parts to airbus. If airlines keep walking away from Airbus then I am sure it wont be too long before we see an adverse effect on Airbus employees all over Europe.

Jerseyboy,
I wish people who buy foreign cars and other foreign produced goods had the same attitude to you in that case.
Then we would not have seen 2 Million manufacturing jobs lost in this country over the past ten years.
We are in a worldwide economy now, and well, why should Airbus employees in their foriegn produced cars and watching their foriegn produced TVs talking to their banks call centres in India be any different to the millions of others who have had their careers removed to foreign lands?

Alan I see your point BUT Virgin mainly flies to the USA. And a good number of the travelers are American. Should VS align their fleet around the consumer, company ownership (51% SRB (Does he spend much time in the UK)/49% Singapore Air, or the location of the head office? Let us not forget that birth location in random and by chance; SRB could have been born in Lagos or Tuymazy, Bashkortostan, Russia and I imagine that the VS would be a mere dream.

Remember: That first London-Gatwick to Newark flight was on a good ole' American union-made Boeing 747.