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#20517 by RichardMannion
02 Aug 2007, 18:20
Given we've been talking about changes to Flying Club, DylanDog's post here got me thinking, what if you could no longer use S fares for upgrading to Upper or for using a companion reward?

I know I'd be looking at other options given the huge difference in fare at times between S and W; like LHR-SFO this October:

K Fare is £965+taxes
S Fare is £1265+taxes
W Fare is £2121+taxes

Thanks,
Richard
#180083 by casey0999
02 Aug 2007, 18:52
Originally posted by RichardMannion
Given we've been talking about changes to Flying Club, DylanDog's post here got me thinking, what if you could no longer use S fares for upgrading to Upper or for using a companion reward?

I know I'd be looking at other options given the huge difference in fare at times between S and W; like LHR-SFO this October:

K Fare is £965+taxes
S Fare is £1265+taxes
W Fare is £2121+taxes

Thanks,
Richard





With a little planning, I could buy a United business class Z fare for less than the W fare that you quoted, so W wouldn't even be considered in this scenario. (and United has started rolling out lie-flat seats in business class)

As I've mentioned in other posts, Virgin's LHR-SFO is way-overpriced in PE, in my opinion!
#180088 by Scrooge
02 Aug 2007, 19:34
I don't think it would take a lot of planning at all.
#180093 by preiffer
02 Aug 2007, 19:56
... just 42 days [:w]
#180094 by slinky09
02 Aug 2007, 20:30
Out on the 16th, back on the 23rd example in business / upper:

£2,204.55 on United
£2,641.10 on Virgin
£2,651.10 on BA

... including taxes, not that I disbelieved you Casey, but actually it's less that a W PE fare all in ;)
#180099 by RichardMannion
02 Aug 2007, 22:05
So you mean you wouldn't buy a full W, and then use 40k miles to upgrade to Upper? Can't think why not.

Or you wouldn't buy a full W, and then use your companion voucher to get two PE seats instead of buying 2 K's? Because obviously that would be cheaper right?

Thanks,
Richard
#180100 by HighFlyer
02 Aug 2007, 22:09
A W fare isnt usually far off a Z fare (sometimes its more expensive!), so what would be the point there?

If i wanted an S fare it would be because i wanted to reduce the price of my Upper fare (buying a cheaper fare and upgrading it) or because i wanted to utilise the companion voucher (buying x2 fares for just over the cost of one). A W fare would render both of these exercises obsolete. In the first instance, why upgrade a W to a G? You'd either buy the Z fare (which would likely cost around the same and count towards requalification) or, more likely, look at another airlines offering, probably MaxJet to LAX, as if i wanted a Z fare i'd have bought one in the first place.

Thanks,
Sarah
#180101 by Decker
02 Aug 2007, 22:11
this redefines bizarre. These are meant to reward loyalty yes? So they really should be of use for leisure travel... if you can afford full fare why do you need rewards ;)
#180103 by preiffer
02 Aug 2007, 22:22
Or (selfish mode on, securing more seats for moi)...

Upgradable fares : L/B/Y/W only
Au Upgradable fares: X/M/L/B/Y/K/S/W

[}:)]


(Awaiting flames...[:w])
#180105 by RichardMannion
02 Aug 2007, 22:25
Originally posted by preiffer
Or (selfish mode on, securing more seats for moi)...

Upgradable fares : L/B/Y/W only
Au Upgradable fares: X/M/L/B/Y/K/S/W

[}:)]


(Awaiting flames...[:w])


You missed Q [|:)]
#180107 by preiffer
02 Aug 2007, 22:28
Nah - I was giving them that, and N for luck.
#180108 by DylanDog
02 Aug 2007, 22:29
Without wishing to sound too dramatic, I think the lack of an S fare upgrade/companion option would make me seriously consider leaving VS Flying club and returning my black amex.

As all of my flying is personal, and with a family, the S upgrade/ companion route is the only cost effective way to use miles. Given the high taxes on economy flights, using miles on them ( even with 20% off ) is a waste.

W ( or J ) flights are far too expensive for a family of four (even using a companion)- maxjet, 2xK PE flights etc. are usually cheaper.

Without being able to use the companion voucher the VS black Amex becomes an even bigger waste of money( compared to the old mastercard).

The BA amex would be far better value with the 2 for 1 voucher ( and I can use my tesco clubcard points ). Even the BMI card is cheaper and accepted everywhere. - And I wouldn't have to deal with MBNA!

As most of my flights are ex LGW the clubhouse and IFE are already poor ( and I've just realised my LHR flight to IAD this month doesn't have V-port[n] )

We have flown Virgin almost exclusively for years ( I still have my original Freeway card ) The words straw and camels' back come to mind.
#180110 by Decker
02 Aug 2007, 22:48
I don't know Paul - it sounds reasonableish... :)
#180112 by Scrooge
02 Aug 2007, 23:05
Originally posted by DylanDog

W or K ( or J ) flights are far too expensive for a family of four (even using a companion)- maxjet, 2xK PE flights etc. are usually cheaper.

We have flown Virgin almost exclusively for years ( I still have my original Freeway card ) The words straw and camels' back come to mind.


Please excuse the heavy editingof your post, but you rais a couple of points.

PE was put in place to extract a little more $$$ from our bank accounts in order to get slightly better seats and service, whilst there can be no argument that VS achieved the slightly the better part, the little bit more $$ seems to have gone walk about, except when there is a sale of course.

The fact that a Z can be had for the same price of a W makes you wonder who would buy it, of course it is a last minute option, if VS were to make it a W only upgrade there would beno more upgrades, you would have to be a prize idiot to do so, same money, less miles, less TP's, no clubhouse.

At the same time MY is now starting to run flights to the same destinations as VS, offering more seat pitch etc for less money.

While it may not be an issue right now at some point, when MY have enough planes, it may turn out to be a problem for VS.

PE generates the most $$$ per sq ft of any cabin, however is it really such a good idea to get to a point where people will not even look at the VS PE pricing because it is thought to cost to much ?


Another thing to remember is that while talking about removing the S is all well and good..there is the fact that you still have to find a G to upgrade to...


On the second point...

I just came across my old freeway silver card....

I laughed at a post that LRoM made reminding me of the fact that back in those days you had to take 3 flights in Y before you qualified to join.
#180113 by Scrooge
02 Aug 2007, 23:06
Originally posted by Decker
I don't know Paul - it sounds reasonableish... :)


I think it is more antidisestablishmentarianism
#180117 by preiffer
02 Aug 2007, 23:10
Originally posted by Scrooge
The fact that a Z can be had for the same price of a W makes you wonder who would buy it, of course it is a last minute option, if VS were to make it a W only upgrade there would beno more upgrades, you would have to be a prize idiot to do so, same money, less miles, less TP's, no clubhouse.
There is ONE big reason why people buy W's, which means it can't be compared to a Z:

If you can't stay the Sat. night (ie: business), you can ONLY have a W or a D/J. Z is not an option (sat. night stay requirement). So, the comparison is then £2k vs £4k+.

Bought up front and include a sat. night, an Apex PE fare compared to an Apex J fare is around £800 vs £2000.
Bought last minute/no sat. night, a FLEX PE fare compared to a FLEX J fare is around £2000 vs £4-5000.
Anything else is comparing apples to oranges.
#180119 by Decker
02 Aug 2007, 23:14
But to stereotype... why would anyone need a non apex companion fare?
#180121 by RichardMannion
02 Aug 2007, 23:16
Well you could always go via VH to avoid the Saturday night requirement... or you could buy a MpM fare on day of departure
#180146 by napamatt
03 Aug 2007, 01:17
Casey

I think it will be a long time before you can reasonably count on a flat bed in United Business. They have a very big fleet and still dont have that much money to spend.
#180147 by napamatt
03 Aug 2007, 01:19
My last flight was a UC Z for $4100 pp + 15k miles. The UC D was $10500. Even without earning any miles or tier points, the MPM was a great deal.
#180179 by casey0999
03 Aug 2007, 17:14
Originally posted by napamatt
Casey

I think it will be a long time before you can reasonably count on a flat bed in United Business. They have a very big fleet and still dont have that much money to spend.


Matt- you may be right about that, although UA does claim that they will be upgrading the fleet starting next month, so I imagine at least some money has been allocated. They'll probably start with the trans-Pacific flights I would think, and perhaps then West Coast US to Europe (just a guess).
-Casey
#180187 by NS
03 Aug 2007, 19:04
Originally posted by casey0999
Originally posted by napamatt
Casey

I think it will be a long time before you can reasonably count on a flat bed in United Business. They have a very big fleet and still dont have that much money to spend.


Matt- you may be right about that, although UA does claim that they will be upgrading the fleet starting next month, so I imagine at least some money has been allocated. They'll probably start with the trans-Pacific flights I would think, and perhaps then West Coast US to Europe (just a guess).
-Casey


I'd say Chicago-London would also be a good bet since they have flat bed competition with 2 other carriers, plus it's a key UA hub?
#180228 by ukcobra
04 Aug 2007, 21:46
The other reason why some people buy W tickets, and do not examine the prices in UC, is that their travel policy does not allow them. I have permission to fly PE, but even if I found a UC ticket for less, I would need Executive Finance VP approval. With a company of 35,000 employees, I'm not about to go and do that.
#180229 by Kraken
04 Aug 2007, 22:17
ukcobra has hit the nail on the head as to why people buy W fares when a cheaper Z is available... corporate travel policy. I only travel short-haul to Europe on business, but if I did long-haul, I would be restricted to PE - even if full-fare UC was available for less.

James
#180230 by Scrooge
04 Aug 2007, 22:44
I am sure you mean a discount UC ticket..as a full fare would never be less [?]
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