Au to Ag - Reckless Abandonment

Maybe. Why not ? Make it the exclusive goal to strive for rather than - well anyone can get this ....It will do wonders for Virgin business

What real world perks do the top tiers of other airlines offer?

[preiffer]

Originally posted by hackneyguy
Maybe. Why not ? Make it the exclusive goal to strive for rather than - well anyone can get this ....It will do wonders for Virgin business

Oh, fully agreed - but many other members on here may not appreciate the hike in the bar height with quite the same level of objective acceptance. [:0]

Well manymile - BA Gold has better perks than VS Gold and BA Premier/Black even better (rumoured to be similar to the new Top tier to be unveiled by Virgin later this year). Check out BA website or google BA Premier or Gold for info.

Cheers,

Ian

Originally posted by preiffer

Originally posted by hackneyguy
Maybe. Why not ? Make it the exclusive goal to strive for rather than - well anyone can get this ....It will do wonders for Virgin business

Oh, fully agreed - but many other members on here may not appreciate the hike in the bar height with quite the same level of objective acceptance. [:0]

Thanks I do try to be objective rather than impassionate. I try not to offend but sometimes hard business decisions hurts [B)]

Thanks

Ian [:X]

[preiffer]

Originally posted by hackneyguy
Check out BA website or google BA Premier or Gold for info.

Ian,

You mentioned before that you currently hold a BA Premier Card. What specific benefits do you get (that you value) as a result of holding it?

As we only travel for leisure, it's not really possible to go for gold but hold silver with Virgin and Emirates.
We've just returned from New York and found no benefits at all holding the VS ag card. On the outbound we travelled in Y and could have used the PE checkin but as we had completed online checkin, discovered the bag drop queue was shorter and used that.
I enquired about priority luggage for silvers as a possibility and it's not something VS do.

With Emirates, Silver is allowed additional baggage allowance whatever class you travel in, business class check in, access to lounges in Dubai and priority baggage too.

I now really don't think VS ag is worth it and may have to look at using another carrier when travelling west - it's a shame as I used to love Virgin but not sure what's happening lately with regard to them keeping up with other carriers on the loyalty programme.

I've just costed LAS out for Jan 08 and for an economy ticket am looking at approx £1400 against a Maxjet ticket for £774. PE on the dates I'm looking at (22-25 Jan) are coming in at approx £2,400 [n]

[Decker]

Want THAT wun!

VERY amused by the concept of a true boarding time. I think I'd abuse the seat change one and look for for celebs who annoyed me, see what seat they were in and then request it just to see if it generated a "Don't you know who I am" response.

[preiffer]

Umm - That list looks familiar.

Are you related to Nick, by any chance? [:w]

[HighFlyer]

Originally posted by hackneyguy
no - but why not plagiarize with a cut and paste where you can ? lol

Because its against forum rules. If you do copy and paste text from elsewhere, you need to cite the source.

Thanks,
Sarah

[RichardMannion]

As many others have said its a very interesting topic. It might be worth looking at the past to see how the land lay before the current incarnation, so Freeway and the first wave of Flyign Club; anyone remember:

- you couldn't earn miles until you did a sector in PE or UC, or had done 3 returns in Economy within a year.

- a trip in Upper got you enough TP's for Silver (for life, before they decided life ended around 01/02)

- Points only lasted 3 years

Now I kind of liked the first rule, it made economic sense in some ways as it stopped masses of points been awarded and accounts maintained. A decision was made to scrap this rule, and it was in contrast to what BA were doing and aiming EC at those that flew on expensive tickets. Parctically all fares earned full mileage, and the rapid increase in VS FC members resulted. There were some downsides, I remember talking to the FC Manager when the decision to revoke the life status of Silver was made, and it was down in some part to the huge number of 'stale' Ag's that had done one trip in Upper and were then hardly ever using the airline, hence the change to bring in a requal requirement for Ag.

Nowadays, I see FC as tryign to be inclusive to all hence why there are so many members. Those that do their one trip a year on the airline can earn miles and have red status, and use/save the miles for a variety of rewards.

We then have Silver status, which has to be said is no real frequent flyer status in any comparison. It cannot be really compared to any otehr Silver status in terms of ease of attainment (and retainment) and in benefits. It's long been said, the only benefit of Silver is the use of PE check-in (the introduction of the miles earning bonus last year being another, but questionable in this day of VS's bean counting). So who is your target audience for Ag? Can't really be those that fly in PE already surely? Is it for those that maybe do 2-3 trips a year in Economy.

We then have Gold status, which in my book is what I expect of an elite tier of a frequent flyer program. If I am being brutual, I would actually put it on par with BA Silver in terms of benefits and achievability. I'd personally struggle to get to BA Gold, but could get to Silver, just like I can get to and maintain VS Gold. But then the flipside is, what are the benefits to me/Sarah nowadays when we tend to fly in Upper as it is? None, aside from the 50% mileage bonus. It is useful for us when we are travelling to the East Coast, and fly in PE as we get CH access and Revivals access. Interesting anomally there, that either oen of us can take a guest into the CH, but not Revivals. I'd make a change and give Au's a couple of vouchers to take a guest into Revivals (subject to capacity controls obviously) or maybe make that a Gold+ achieve, liek BA do when you get to a certain number of tier points, or allow a Gold customer to buy Revivals access for 5-10k miles. So with that in mind, who is the actual target audience of Gold? People that fly in PE regularly? I do like the point that Decker made about priority boarding and luggage; that so needs to be consistent.

Gold is where the published benefits end. There is the level above which still yields a Gold card, but offers a few extra perks and is within reach for the true frequent flyers that are flying at least once a month on a high yield ticket; a big difference to BA Premier that is not earned on an individuals travels as such. The touted number in existence is ~1000, and aimed at captains of industry, real VIPs, and key persons at large corporate accounts with healthy spend on BA.

So the question remains, what would you do if it was up to you to defien the tiers and benefits? I'd need to sit down and look at my target audiences and what I would want to achieve, and what budget I have been allocated. Some intial thoughts would be:

- Reinstate the min # of trips requirement before you can join. After first giving all current Red members a year to earn x number of TP's.

- Remove the silly rule that you have to have 'activity' on yoru account at least once every 3 years to keep your miles active. If you are not doing at least one sector on VS every year, then they expire.

- To maintain Red you have to achieve 5 Tp's or more a year. Give Red members the ability to purchase MpM fares, and make MpM fares earn TP's (yes that means they can buy their way to Silver/Gold, but it will cost quite a bit)

- Move Silver up to 25TP to achieve and retain but give them the current Gold benefits with a few tweaks as in:
- Only they get access to the CH, no guest
- Only they get access to Revivals, no guest
- Access to use PE check-in only
- Reward flights earn TP's

- Move Gold up to 50TP to achieve and retain but:
- Access to CH and Revivals with guest
- Access to CH at anytime just for holder
- Hold back reward inventory just for Golds, first come first served
- Access to choose any seat they want, including exit rows/bulkheads etc
- Upgrade voucher for 2 or a buy one reward seat get one free or x number of free CDC's
- first choice of meals onboard
- Access to UC check-in regardless

- Then have your xxTOP (V50) as it is at 100TP with its current benefits

Think I need to think a little bit more about this.

Thanks,
Richard

[HighFlyer]

Originally posted by hackneyguy

Really ? http://www.v-flyer.com/forum/policy.asp
[|:)]

Yes. From your own link to our policy -

"You also agree that you will not post any copyrighted material that is not owned by yourself or the owners of these forums."

Lets not split hairs here or degenerate into childish 'one-up's'. Passing off information from elsewhere as your own is in breach of the forum rules. I see you have corrected your original post and also found the forum policy, so are we clear on the matter now?

Thanks,
Sarah

[RichardMannion]

Actually thinking about it, earnign TP's for reward flights could have merit but obviously limit the %age that can be used to attain/retain status. Wouldn't really want the MR chaps to buy status off the back of huge MR transfers

Originally posted by RichardMannion
We then have Silver status, which has to be said is no real frequent flyer status in any comparison. It cannot be really compared to any otehr Silver status in terms of ease of attainment (and retainment) and in benefits. It's long been said, the only benefit of Silver is the use of PE check-in (the introduction of the miles earning bonus last year being another, but questionable in this day of VS's bean counting). So who is your target audience for Ag? Can't really be those that fly in PE already surely?

I don't know whether it's relevant to this point but they have in the past "given" Silver status to members of corporate travel schemes where VS is one of a group of preferred providers.

Though far from experienced in these matters, it seems to me that over the years certain aspects of the loyalty schemes have been devalued somewhat. I'm particularly thinking of the awarding of miles, where the apparent generosity comes a cropper when try to cash them in for a reward seat / upgrade. I've been busy squirrelling them away for more than 10 years, but effectively they have no value as I can't redeem them for flights.

Paul

Originally posted by RichardMannion
Some initial thoughts would be:

- Reinstate the min # of trips requirement before you can join. After first giving all current Red members a year to earn x number of TP's.

- Remove the silly rule that you have to have 'activity' on yoru account at least once every 3 years to keep your miles active. If you are not doing at least one sector on VS every year, then they expire.

- To maintain Red you have to achieve 5 Tp's or more a year. Give Red members the ability to purchase MpM fares, and make MpM fares earn TP's (yes that means they can buy their way to Silver/Gold, but it will cost quite a bit)

- Move Silver up to 25TP to achieve and retain but give them the current Gold benefits with a few tweaks as in:
- Only they get access to the CH, no guest
- Only they get access to Revivals, no guest
- Access to use PE check-in only
- Reward flights earn TP's

- Move Gold up to 50TP to achieve and retain but:
- Access to CH and Revivals with guest
- Access to CH at anytime just for holder
- Hold back reward inventory just for Golds, first come first served
- Access to choose any seat they want, including exit rows/bulkheads etc
- Upgrade voucher for 2 or a buy one reward seat get one free or x number of free CDC's
- first choice of meals onboard
- Access to UC check-in regardless

- Then have your xxTOP (V50) as it is at 100TP with its current benefits

Think I need to think a little bit more about this.

Thanks,
Richard

Hi Richard-
In general, I would welcome these changes. Just a few comments, while trying to balance them with financial interests of VS:

regarding Silver: I don't think reward flights should earn TP's. Does any other airline do this?

regarding Gold: 50 TP's seems like a good level - means about 8+ long-haul return flights in PE per year, and equates more to the Gold levels of other airlines. I'm a United Airlines 1K (100,000 mile) flyer for example. I have to fly about 8 return flights from the US to Uk plus some domestic travel to earn this. 50TP's on Virgin would not be quite as difficult, but hard hard enough that I would make a concerted effort to use Virgin whenever possible, which I guess is the point of these programs.

I'd also add to your list an automated waitlist for UC upgrades rather than the crap-shoot we deal with now

Whilst I won't claim to be frequent flyer, by any stretch of the imagination, I feel I must "stick-up" for Flying Club Red here.

For people like myself, who really look forward to travelling overseas and have to fund it myself as my work doesn't require overseas travel, Flying Club Red offers me a chance to travel in PE or UC for less money than what it would usually cost me. I have an Black VAA AmEx which earns me miles for the sole purpose of buying a flight/companion/upgrade for I flight that I might not necessarily be able to afford by just using my hard-earned.

When I travelled in Upper Class last year, I was mightily impressed and a little sad at the same time. The cost element of flying in Virgin's elite class (for me) is just too much to be able to afford to do regularly. FC's Red tier is all I can ever get to (not that it's difficult to enter a few details on a web page) but Silver is out of my reach.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is I'm quite grateful that FC gives the average Joe on the street an oppurtunity to feel like a frequent flyer and save points for flights, even though they really aren't. That's why I fly with them and recommend them to my friends.

[Decker]

Thank you for a Red perspective dawg. The point you make is easily lost by those of us who are blessed/cursed (delete as appropriate) with the opportunity to travel on business. I remember my first ever flight on BA in '79 and the thought of joining ANY loyalty scheme made no sense at all. At least Red provided you with the M&M and companion ticket opportunities.

[HighFlyer]

The vast majority of my travel, like many V-Flyers, is leisure oriented. Not all of us get our frequent flyer status with help from our company.

hmvs_dog, you raise a very good perspective. FC Red being the tier that keeps those once or twice yearly flyers loyal to Virgin. What did you think of Richards proposal that Red members should have to achieve a small number of tier points a year (say 4, thats one return Y flight) to keep the tier?

I guess i am trying to weigh up the obvious benefits to many Red members, along with the loyalty it then generates, with the idea of how much it must cost VS in administration to keep all of the red accounts active. There must be a good number of red members who do not fly each year, maybe only every 2-3 years, (keeping their accounts active with miles accrual elsewhere). Does this translate to loyalty?

Thanks,
Sarah

[preiffer]

Originally posted by HighFlyer
Not all of us get our frequent flyer status with help from our company.

Need to be careful with that perception of "help" from the company...

Yes, company travellers do get a benefit from paid trips, but there IS a huge downside.

So, for work, I get to spend half of my life inside little metal tubes (assuming I get there after the car fails to pick me up), 38k ft above the earth with broken entertainment systems and crap food. I lose out on "stability" (which is in part, my choice) and permanence in life for the benefit of my company being able to say "you need to go to xxxxx tomorrow". My trips are mostly preparing for the meeting/supplier dinner I'll be walking straight into the second I get off the plane (and hence why Upper Class is seen as a "tool" for work efficiency).

For all that, what do I get? Enough miles to travel AGAIN, but for "fun". (There's a reason why my extended family do very well on the holiday front). I can tell you one thing: Business travel has ensured that I will never find a plane journey particularly "fun" again. [:#]


Don't get me wrong, I enjoy what I do and as I say, it's a choice in a way. So, none of this is a complaint - but some peoples' perception of "company jollies" is somewhat inaccurate

How does this link to the gold card thing? Well, give me what I pay for, consistently, and make my overall travel experience better. If you do that, VS, I have no need for a gold card anyway. [|:)]

[Nottingham Nick]

Originally posted by HighFlyer
There must be a good number of red members who do not fly each year, maybe only every 2-3 years, (keeping their accounts active with miles accrual elsewhere). Does this translate to loyalty?

I think there are two separate issues there. I don't think there should be a re-qualification proviso for reds (unless benefits are improved). We are talking about brand loyalty and, if the FC points / benefits are what makes people fly with VS rather than another carrier on their bi-annual trip to WDW, then the system achieved its objectives.

The people who accrue their points elsewhere, be it credit cards or other means, shouldn't be treated better then FC members IMHO. You regularly read stories on FT about people who have acquired a huge number of points and want to snare multiple UC reward seats to Australia or other popular destinations. They have never flown VS before, and create their FC account purely to convert their points and take reward flights.

I think people who have actually flown with Virgin should be given priority access to reward seats. Make them available to Golds first, silvers a short time later, then reds - and finally, a tier that would have to be created below red - people who haven't used VS before and just want to hit and run.

Nick

[HighFlyer]

Paul, i certainly wasnt intending to criticise, or come across in a negative way to you or to anyone else. Maybe 'help' was the wrong word. I have just noticed a few posts on here of late which indicate that many members seem to think that a lot of us get our frequent flyer status from our company through the flights we do for work. I was simply attempting to point out that it is not the case for all. I do a handful of flights for work, the vast majority are for pleasure.

Thanks,
Sarah

[preiffer]

Ah, for clarity - I only "picked on" your point, as it was the most recent, and to try and cut the "business traveller poking" off at the pass

Wasn't meant to be "at" Sarah, sorry!

[honey lamb]

I think Nick makes a valid point about accruing points through flying versus through credit cards or some other means. On a recent thread the question was posed about the number of miles and for many the number was accrued by a combination of flying and credit card points. Fair enough. Mine have been accrued simply through flying since I don't have access to the credit card. That's life. However I think I would be seriously miffed if I couldn't get reward availability when I wanted it simply because someone who had never flown VS had created an account with the sole purpose of racking up miles for multiple reward seats [:(!]

[preiffer]

I'd go further HL.

Want VS status? Fly VS. Partner activity doesn't count - no ifs, no buts.

Then there's the argument of "what if VS don't fly to my destinations? etc etc". Well... you won't be needing status on an airline that don't fly to your destinations then, will you? [:w][ii]

[Darren Wheeler]

Originally posted by preiffer


Then there's the argument of "what if VS don't fly to my destinations? etc etc". Well... you won't be needing status on an airline that don't fly to your destinations then, will you? [:w][ii]

Simple - do what I do. Fly VS to a hub and catch an internal flight. Sure, it takes a bit longer but as I travel for leisure it's all part of the travel experience.