Change of T&Cs

Just noticed this...

10. If paying by credit card a 3 per person surcharge will apply. When booking from the 5 December07 onwards a 1.3% of total booking cost will apply.

A big jump. For my last PE tickets, at around 600, it was 3, now it's 7.80. You'd think VS would waive it for their own credit card holders too.

[Nottingham Nick]

Originally posted by locutus
You'd think VS would waive it for their own credit card holders too.

Totally agree - I believe other airlines waive fees for pax using their own branded credit cards, so VS should do the same.

They have you over a barrel though, the current 6 points per £ promotion make it impossible (for me anyway) to think of using another method of payment.

Nick

[RichardMannion]

Note that Fuel Surcharges (YQ) went up today as well....

£50.50 per sector (so £200+) for a return LHR-SYD flight in fuel taxes alone. It is slightly less at £45.50 per sector for NYC, IAD, BOS and DXB.

Thanks,
Richard

[mitchja]

BMI do waive the CC fee when using their own branded card. I think BA do as well although not sure, but BA do waive the CC fee when booking reward flights (or at least they did last time I booked a domestic reward earlier this year)

Looks like it's now cheaper to book VS flights using an online/offline travel agent. Dont VS want any online revenue [:?]

I asked VS customer relations why they where charging a fee for using your VS Amex card when they brought in the first CC fee. I never did get a response.

Regards

[Scrooge]

Bring up an old sore subject...

Of course it is nice to have a VS branded credit card you can use [:w]

[honey lamb]

Originally posted by Scrooge
Bring up an old sore subject...

Of course it is nice to have a VS branded credit card you can use [:w]

Agreed [:w]

So £40 odd for an UC ticket.

IIRC you can only charge for credit cards extra where it represents a real cost to the vendor.

Is this legal? C'mon lawyers!

It is legal AFAIK.

But you are well within your right to negotiate on the contract.

T&C's are a difficult one. Quite often they are incorrectly written and result in the Unfair Contract Terms Act being broken. There are many major companies that are breaking laws with their T&C's.

Attempted to get the premier team to wave the fee today when I booked but they would not

Well done VS for introducing this change. Why should I, as a debit card user, subsidise the cost to VS of credit card users?

[preiffer]

Originally posted by Ian
Well done VS for introducing this change. Why should I, as a debit card user, subsidise the cost to VS of credit card users?

How about because buying something on a credit card provides the purchaser with a HECK of a lot more protection than that of a debit card, should something go wrong?

OR because Virgin themselves get a kickback from people using their Amex (Virgin) cards? (that probably go towards paying your debit card fees - YES, there are debit card fees paid by retailers, albeit lower than the credit card %'s)

Tell you what though - you have the right idea. Why stop there? Better start writing demands for the same to Tesco, Asda, B&Q, WHSmith, Waterstones, Woolworths, Arcadia Group, John Lewis, Next, ooooh - pretty much EVERYONE OTHER THAN THOSE IN THE TRAVEL INDUSTRY.


It's a joke. [n]

Originally posted by preiffer

Originally posted by Ian
Well done VS for introducing this change. Why should I, as a debit card user, subsidise the cost to VS of credit card users?

How about because buying something on a credit card provides the purchaser with a HECK of a lot more protection than that of a debit card, should something go wrong?

- YES, there are debit card fees paid by retailers, albeit lower than the credit card %'s)

I had forgotten about the protection, so, yes, another reason why the charge should be introduced for credit card users.

Debit card fees are about 17p per transaction, which is cheaper for VS than cash or cheques.

Originally posted by RichardMannion
Note that Fuel Surcharges (YQ) went up today as well....

Thanks,
Richard

What fantastic news....

[RichardMannion]

A %age is a joke, especially if one is buying an expensive PE or UC ticket - the margins on those tickets are not exactly poor. It should be factored into the business model that it's a cost of doing business - people use cards nowadays. What is absolutely laughable is that VS push you to have their VS AmEx via the IVR messaging, yet enforce the same charge when you book tickets on them.

I just don't get it; if I book direct with VS, there is no agent commission to pass on, but am charged 1.3% fee. If I book elsewhere, they have to pay an agent commission and I won't have to pay the fee. [?]

It's alright for subsidies though as it costs Golds nothing to phone Virgin Atlantic, whereas the cost of the calls are being subsidised by other members dialling the 0870 numbers. [ii]

But the assumption is that this extra fee is being imposed without any corresponding reduction in the headline ticket price. Without testing that assumption all complaints about the introduction of this fee become invalid.
I make the assumption that the total amount collected in 1.3% charges will be deducted from the ticket prices, resulting in a nil gain for VS. I may be wrong, but I ask myself why is VS doing this and I surmise that it is so that ticket prices can be reduced without affecting the gross margin.

[Pete]

I would make a lot of sense to waive the fee for VS Amex card holders (since VS get a kickback, and, afterall, they are encouraging us to use that card to book our flights).

Perhaps a petition from VS Amex card holder to Virgin Atlantic would help change their minds?

The kickback is there to compensate for the miles awarded with card use, so that's another reason to charge for it.

[preiffer]

Originally posted by Ian
I make the assumption that the total amount collected in 1.3% charges will be deducted from the ticket prices, resulting in a nil gain for VS. I may be wrong, but I ask myself why is VS doing this and I surmise that it is so that ticket prices can be reduced without affecting the gross margin.

Funny. I hadn't realised that Virgin Galactic had started operations. Hope their return service is due soon though, to bring you back from whatever planet you've ended up on... [:w]

PS - Not wanting to start crying 'hypocrisy', but aren't you the same Ian that claimed to be sitting on '1,249,72 VS credit card miles' not too long ago? (In which case, can I ask for a contribution to my bank balance from you, as my card 'fees' obviously went towards funding them...)[ii]

[mitchja]

Originally posted by Ian
Well done VS for introducing this change. Why should I, as a debit card user, subsidise the cost to VS of credit card users?

VS dont charge a fee for using a debit card anyway. It's only for credit cards.

Regards

Sorry, but you've lost me on both counts there. So let me turn it round and ask why do you think the charge has been introduced? That might bring me back to planet earth. Because so far no-one else has made any suggestion on that score. And what card 'fees' are you referring to? I paid all my own to get the miles[:p]

Finally, the pedant in me wants to let you know that it's hypocrisy[;)]

Originally posted by mitchja

Originally posted by Ian
Well done VS for introducing this change. Why should I, as a debit card user, subsidise the cost to VS of credit card users?

VS dont charge a fee for using a debit card anyway. It's only for credit cards.

Regards

I know. And your point is....?

[preiffer]

Originally posted by Ian
So let me turn it round and ask why do you think the charge has been introduced? That might bring me back to planet earth. Because so far no-one else has made any suggestion on that score.

Simple. To a retailer (something I know a little bit about [;)]) credit card fees are simply margin erosion. Pass them on = improved margin = improved profits. Ticket prices will NOT come down as a result of passing these fees on.

And there was me thinking your parents had made you stay in school rather than taking you out for holidays during term time.... [;)] [:w]

Originally posted by preiffer

Originally posted by Ian
So let me turn it round and ask why do you think the charge has been introduced? That might bring me back to planet earth. Because so far no-one else has made any suggestion on that score.

Simple. To a retailer (something I know a little bit about [;)]) credit card fees are simply margin erosion. Pass them on = improved margin = improved profits. Ticket prices will NOT come down as a result of passing these fees on.

And there was me thinking your parents had made you stay in school rather than taking you out for holidays during term time.... [;)] [:w]

Haha. Believe me when I was in school credit cards didn't exist.[:D]

But you will still have the ability to avoid increasing VS margins and profits. The choice is yours.

[honey lamb]

Originally posted by RichardMannion
It's alright for subsidies though as it costs Golds nothing to phone Virgin Atlantic, whereas the cost of the calls are being subsidised by other members dialling the 0870 numbers. [ii]

Not me, I'm afraid. [:#] I have to go through the 0870 number or else the saynoto0870 website. The FC gold line does not work outside of the UK

Originally posted by RichardMannion
A %age is a joke, especially if one is buying an expensive PE or UC ticket - the margins on those tickets are not exactly poor. It should be factored into the business model that it's a cost of doing business - people use cards nowadays.

I'm going to have to re-examine my booking options. If I have to pay 1.3% on PE or UC fare and then pay a Cross Border Handling Fee of 1.75% on my credit card because it is a sterling payment, I might find it cheaper to revert to going through a TA again. I would be sorry about that as I would lose a lot of autonomy in making those bookings - plus the advantage of dealing with the excellent Premier Team [:#]