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#1904 by mike-smashing
18 Jul 2004, 18:37
OK, so there's been a few moans about VS (and others!) on here recently. So I wondered if we could make something positive out of this, maybe get some good ideas that our resident VS-staff lurkers might take back to the powers that be in Crawley?

I think VS is generally a very good airline, and there isn't really that much to change, but I wonder if a few things can make it even better...

Here's some starters for 10 (I know these have been mentioned before - I'm trying to sum up general sentiment, as well as my own):

1) Get rid of the annoying "welcome" video, and the Sky News, or at least allow pax to switch it off or select something else. (Pet hate.)

2) Pension off the more decrepit members of the A330 fleet (G-VBUS springs to mind). Replace with 747-400s - crews like them, we like them. Maybe the 747-400ER to open up some new routes?

3) Standardise the cabin features (seating types, IFE, etc.) across the aircraft fleet as much as possible. I know this is happening slowly, but it needs to be more of a priority, and should be considered when ordering new aircraft too.

4) Laptop power in all seats (or at least one socket in every bay of seats in Economy). All the brand new BA A319/A320s (G-EUxx) have this, as do the US Airways A330s, so it can be done!

5) Offer an "economy plus" for FC Silver/Gold members - regular economy seats, regular economy service, but with 3-4 inches extra seat pitch. This would be available to Silver/Gold members on regular economy fares, rewarding them for their loyalty even when they can't stretch to PE/UC or qualify for upgrade. Economy pax without FC status may "get lucky" and get allocated these seats at check-in, but can't prebook them.

6) Tweak the design of the new PE seat (Kash), it's nowhere near as comfy as the older seat. You need to be able to sit in the seat, rather than on it. Changing the cushion shape/design will do this, maybe? Also, increase the seat-back storage in this seat - replace the plastic pocket thing with an elastic one. Make the cocktail table in the armrest bigger, or have a pull out one. You can't get two drinks on there at the same time. Relocate the EmPower socket so it doesn't dig in your leg when you use it.

7) Upgrade the Premium Economy service - improve the meal selection (extra main choice?), maybe move away from Economy meal packaging/presentation for PE - switch to re-useable oven-to-tableware, and not throwaway plastic/microwave tubs. Separate lavs for PE (on all aircraft) and at least one dedicated crew member. "Mingling area" with snacks and drinks laid out (like the SQ A340-500)? Incresed need to do this if an "economy plus" happens, as the gap between Econ and PE would become somewhat narrower than it is already.

8) Less potatoes in the food generally. There's damn potatoes everywhere in VS food (except maybe dessert). More variety with rice/pasta, etc. (Not a potato fan, if you hadn't guessed.)

9) Replace the instant coffee in economy with filter coffee.

10) Do something to further reduce the huge VS check-in lines at Heathrow. They have seemed slightly better of late, but they are still pretty bad.

11) Root out all the miserable and prima-donna VS staff - I think we have agreed elsewhere that one rotten apple can spoil the whole cart. V-Flyers to round them all up and be nice to them until their stony expressions crack ;).

12) Let op-ups use The Clubhouse. BA let their op-ups use their lounges!

13) Bacon sandwiches any time of the day or night in Upper ;).

14) Increase the number of UC awards available for pre-booking (maybe 5-10 on quieter flights, rather than the more usual 2 or 4, which seems a bit mean).

15) An IFE channel where passengers can hear the air-ground radio comms between the plane and ATC. United do it. It's quite cool.

Hm. That's all I can think of now...

Cheers!
Mike
#36822 by Svenska
18 Jul 2004, 19:00
WOW!

I think you have a lot of GREAT ideas! I know that Virgin can't get that much better, but it seems like some of the point that you mentioned would make it even more amazing than it already is!

I agree with three of your points strongly:

1. Upgrade the Premium Economy service - improve the meal selection (extra main choice?), maybe move away from Economy meal packaging/presentation for PE - switch to re-useable oven-to-tableware, and not throwaway plastic/microwave tubs. Separate lavs for PE (on all aircraft) and at least one dedicated crew member. "Mingling area" with snacks and drinks laid out (like the SQ A340-500)?
2. Let op-ups use The Clubhouse. BA let their op-ups use their lounges.
3. An IFE channel where passengers can hear the air-ground radio comms between the plane and ATC. United do it. It's quite cool.

I would also say that it would be really neat if you could see if one of your favorite Cabin Crew members was going to be on the flight!

Also have an option to pay to use Arrivals if you are in PE, for say 100 pounds. It would therefore be an option, that not many people would use so it would not be too crowded, but the option would still be there for the taking.

I am sure I will think of a couple more...but that is it for now!
#36827 by AlanA
18 Jul 2004, 19:31
I cannot agree witrh your comments about the safety video or the SKY news,much better than BBC they HAVE to be kept!:D

But my two pet hates
1) As said, make PE more "premium" better food please & better`recline
2) Better leg room in economy if they do not do this they will lose econ to the other airlines
#36830 by mike-smashing
18 Jul 2004, 19:57
quote:Originally posted by AlanA
I cannot agree witrh your comments about the safety video or the SKY news,much better than BBC they HAVE to be kept!:D


Not the safety video!

It's the "welcome" video which is run before they fire up the main IFE. The one which starts "r u seated", with the spooky face-less flight attendant...

As far as the news goes, I'd like the option of being able to switch it off, then it isn't flickering in the corner of my eye while I try to read or look out of the window.

Cheers,
Mike
#36832 by mitchja
18 Jul 2004, 20:02
Mixed feelings about these points:

1) I thought you could switch it off [?] The only time you cannot is during the safety demo before take-off.
2) Agree - get rid of the lot and replace with A340-600's
3) Agree - this is getting nearer, within 12 months this should almost be a reality
4) Agree - problem with that is many people complain about the table it not stable enough on the new Wash PE seat whilst using a lap-top which kind'a defeats the object of haveing a power point in PE.
5) Dis-agree as this would de-value the PE product.
9) I thought it was
10) Online/self service check-in will help this, also bring back those mobile check-in wireless terminals VS used to use - why did they stop using them. More desks would also help.
13) You can

The only thing other things I'd like to see are:

Nose cams and external cams on aircraft when landing or taking off
VS check-in staff at LGW and MAN
Full use email/wireless internet whilst onboard

Regards
#36837 by southernbelle
18 Jul 2004, 20:50
Actually am not sure you can turn off the welcome onboard video or news tape. Has always suprised me this one as sometimes the news can be pretty blood thirsty and is not ideal viewing material for children.

Filter coffee for economy - hmmm as someone who fills the coffee pots in economy on a regular basis I just cant see this one happening although it is a nice idea. We get through pots and pots of the stuff on just one coffee round, alas people complain that the meal service takes too long as it is! I doubt filter coffee would speed it up.

Enhancing the premium product is something I know the crew would love however premium economy is purely for a lager seat and dedicated check in. It also ensures you 1st choice of meal. By enhancing the premium service, virgin would run the risk of devaluing the Upper Class product. Premium is so popular that I guess the company seen no need to change it.

Lap top power in all seats would be hard as we have to distribute the leads ourselves. This would also slow things down in economy but we are slowly bringing lap top power into premium. Just having them in one seat in each row could possibly lead to seating problems I guess.

Great suggestions though, especially the bacon butties!
#36843 by Nottingham Nick
18 Jul 2004, 21:21
Mike, Great idea for a thread - a lot of good debating material there[}:)]

Totally disagree about Sky News, potatoes and op-ups in the Clubhouse (an op up is a massive freebie on its own and Clubhouse entry is being greedy IMO )

The majority of the rest of the things on the wish list are fine except - How are VS going to pay for all of its planes to go for refit in one go? plus a large number of brand new planes to replace the A330s, not to mention the lawyer's fees for the industrial tribunals brought about by staff who have been sacked for not smiling enough?

Mixed feeling about the extra class. PE (formerly Mid Class) was brought in for exactly that reason.

Some excellent suggestions in the thread - extra meal choice in PE, laptop power in certain ecomony seats (at a charge?)- excuse the pun[:I] .

The extra IFE channels are also a great idea.

Anything that reduces the economy queue has to be good - it is NOT a good advert for VS when other Pax see the queue snaking round the terminal.

The extra reward seats in premium clases is also a good idea.

I will give my improvements some thought.

Nick
#36844 by AlanA
18 Jul 2004, 21:31
quote:Originally posted by mike-smashing
quote:Originally posted by AlanA
I cannot agree witrh your comments about the safety video or the SKY news,much better than BBC they HAVE to be kept!:D


Not the safety video!

It's the "welcome" video which is run before they fire up the main IFE. The one which starts "r u seated", with the spooky face-less flight attendant...

As far as the news goes, I'd like the option of being able to switch it off, then it isn't flickering in the corner of my eye while I try to read or look out of the window.

Cheers,
Mike


Oh right! Sorry Mike (Slaps own head) Duh! [:o)]
#36847 by British
18 Jul 2004, 21:41
Okay

:)Bring back the little rubber duckie on the tooth brush, i was collecting them!!
:)1 -2 " more on the seat pitch
[8D] more staff to help ease the work load therefore able to offer further customer service on board
[:I]I agree with listen to air traffic control or/and the camera in the nose of the plane
[:p] Get rid of airbus and replace with Boeing
[}:)] Option to book the club house for £30 through Virgin Frequent flyers service and not just Virgin Holiday customers.
[:o)] Do not charge for fire exit seats
[:0] thats all I can think of at the mo

B
#36849 by mcuth
18 Jul 2004, 21:45
Some really good ideas in this thread.

I don't think I've ever seen the "Welcome video", so I can't comment on that. I do like the news programme though (whether BBC or Sky) - I like to be able to catch up with events on my way home, cos I rarely keep up to date while I'm away :) Agree that if you can't currently turn it off, you should be able to have that option.

The cabin standardisation will take place, over time. It costs a fair bit of money to do each plane (£2m?), so I'd say doing the high-revenue routes first and a slower rollout across the rest of the fleet is the right way to do it. As VS' profitability increases each year, I'm sure there'll be more new routes and planes coming into being.

Now, cabin improvements - I think that Y probably needs a bit more legroom and a little wider seat, and W should probably have a little more to it other than just the wider seat/legroom/glass of champers to justify the extra price. J in the UCS (even J2000 was good) is absolutely spot on. All that said, VS have to be real careful not to devalue either W or J premium cabins (after all, if you increase the legroom/width in Y, what's the point in paying the extra for W? :)). It's all about getting the balance right....

Not sure about the laptop power in Y either - the traytable doesn't sit right for me (being a *cough* larger *cough* gentleman), so using my laptop wouldn't be all that in Y anyway :D

UC awards - again not sure - needs to be balanced properly with revenue - especially on the business routes, after all, that's the bread & butter. Am undecided on op-ups and the clubhouse access - like Nick says, an op-up is a real big freebie anyway (besides, if most op-ups are given to Gold members, then they already have Clubhouse access :))

The comms & cam channels sound really good when I've heard about them on other airlines - this'd be a winner for me :)

(and I love your suggestion about being ultra-nice to any miserable FAs :D)

Cheers

Michael (I like potatoes :D)
#36854 by jonathan020
18 Jul 2004, 22:05
Not much to moan about with VS but here are mine:

A343's: Get rid of them!! Leg room is terrible! Or at least paint them all the new VS colours ;) Not sure how many have the old scheme but I know for sure that 'Lady In Red' doesn't.

Nova IFE: No games :-( Overall not that dissapointed as if it were not for the cancelled Alitalia order Virgin may still be using 742's from LGW.

Arcadia: Not bad entertainment but a bit unreliable and the screen is pretty small.

Standardisations: Aircraft, IFE, Seats, colours of seats. When I book AA to Boston I know I will get 777 with loads of legroom and the same entertainment. If I book VS011 to Boston, I could get either a 744 or an A343 or an A346, I could get Odyssy, Arcadia, V:PORT. I want to know what I am getting when I pay my money, I dont want pot luck.

Well those are all I can think of for now.

A few comments on what else has been said:

Nose Camera and ATC would be superb! Not a coffee drinker and like my potatos! Not come across any moody VA staff
#36855 by David
18 Jul 2004, 22:08
Be nice if they flew from Scotland.

David
#36857 by Jonathan
18 Jul 2004, 22:22
Well VS unlike most airlines have got so much right its hard to pick at the current products! However tweaking is always a good idea!

Being both short and thin I have no problems with seating even in Y class.
I appriciate most people are bigger than me; but personally I dont need the extra room!

I flew united and the cockpit audio was very interesting - im sure it wouldn't cost much to roll out that feature!

I've always been happy with VS food but agree that W should be slightly different in terms of food/presentation just to seperate it from Y class..The seperation doesn't need to be great certainly not enough to dilute J class!

The IFE systems are fine anyway with maybe the exception of NOVA and that will die out as part of the UCS rollout.

I think the clubhouse should only be for paying J, D , Z class or Au holders as being an Au holder has to carry perks!

I like the idea of knowing the crew as FF get to know them and them you! would I pick a different flight based on crew choice? possibly as some crews are friendlier than others I think the CSM is an important factor too.

Fleet standardisation isn't that easy as over time specs change; I think its important to have consistant service but I dont think you need standardised seating etc for that.
Diversity is more fun anyway IMO.

OK a few ideas of my own:

Have flight crews relax in the clubhouse before the flight so that they are familiar with the UC/Gold passengers!
I'm not suggesting serving them alcohol but maybe food etc!

Change/Loose the Safety video as its the same thing regardless of type or aircraft so is pointless for FF
#36858 by Richard28
18 Jul 2004, 22:23
I've not yet been on a VS A340-600 - but understand these have nose camera's as part of the IFE - perhaps someone can confirm?

Jonathan,

I understand the last A340-300 was painted into the current colour scheme a couple of months ago - so the entire fleet is now re-painted :)

G-VBUS (Lady in Red) was certainly painted when I last few her a couple of years ago.

Rich.
#36861 by jonathan020
18 Jul 2004, 22:31
quote:Originally posted by Richard28

Jonathan,

I understand the last A340-300 was painted into the current colour scheme a couple of months ago - so the entire fleet is now re-painted :)

G-VBUS (Lady in Red) was certainly painted when I last few her a couple of years ago.

Rich.


Oops I meant G-VFLY Dragon Lady, it was still in old colours last November but I notice on a.net it has been painted a couple of months ago.

Thanks for the info Richard!
#36867 by Odessey
18 Jul 2004, 22:50
All the other suggestions are great, I think virgin need to change the welcome video, and i think he annoying thing is the v-port recardo seats; (Even though im slim)they are too tight and can cause DVT (god forbid)
and have a underbelly video camera

and make VS fly to Birmingham and Scotland.
#36868 by MarkJ
18 Jul 2004, 22:54
Blimey - loads of good stuff here.

I have been asked to fill in the in-flight questionnaire on a few occasions and to be honest it is always difficult to make suggestions - however, having had a think:

1. I agree about the little duck - "Lewis" I have quite a collection and it was disappointing when he disappeared from the in- flight pack.

2. Having been on flights with nose cams - these are great and make the landing particularly exciting!! ( you can turn it off)

3. Agree about Economy - the pitch needs to be 33/34" or VS will get overtaken.

4. Think that UC. PE and Economy are pitched about right in comparison to the competition. Liek the idea of a PE snack area but think that shoudl be about it - otherwise its like having NCW and 1st and I think thats a VS strongpoint - if you want to pay top dollar then you get a top seat!!!

The whole essence of Virgin pivots around the great service and the caring staff - so ultimately all of the things we are suggesting are to a certain degree - "trimming"

I wouldnt change the inflightcrew for anything!!!

Mark
#36872 by sahajesh
18 Jul 2004, 23:03
quote:Originally posted by mitchja
The only thing other things I'd like to see are:

Nose cams and external cams on aircraft when landing or taking off
Full use email/wireless internet whilst onboard



I agree with both but I remember reading that some local residents (in Crawley I think) had complained about lack of privacy with cam-equipped planes overhead. Can't recall whether it got stopped or not.

Wireless access on board is another great idea, pity it's taken so long to get where we are (not far at all) with Boeing Connexions. Is it still only Lufthansa that offer this?

Regards,

Sahajesh
#36881 by mike-smashing
18 Jul 2004, 23:59
quote:Originally posted by southernbelle
Actually am not sure you can turn off the welcome onboard video or news tape.


You definitely can't. I've tried on v-port, odyessy and arcadia! No joy! I wish I could just switch it off! I definitely see your point about kids seeing violence on the news, and that decision should be left to the parents, rather than the news being censored (any more than it already is!) at source.

quote:Filter coffee for economy - hmmm as someone who fills the coffee pots in economy on a regular basis I just cant see this one happening although it is a nice idea. We get through pots and pots of the stuff on just one coffee round, alas people complain that the meal service takes too long as it is! I doubt filter coffee would speed it up.


I sympathise, I've seen the coffee come flying out of the galley at a rate of knots!

However lot of other airlines (mostly US) doing filter coffee seem to cope OK, but they have a row of brewers and jug warmers in each galley. Instant coffee seems to be somewhat beloved of the European airlines!

quote:Enhancing the premium product is something I know the crew would love however premium economy is purely for a lager seat and dedicated check in. It also ensures you 1st choice of meal. By enhancing the premium service, virgin would run the risk of devaluing the Upper Class product. Premium is so popular that I guess the company seen no need to change it.


I think with the UCS not only leading the way, but widening the jump between PE and Upper, some extras in PE (especially an enhanced meal service) wouldn't be too harmful to the Upper product. Remember, right now, PE is just a bigger seat. It doesn't touch Upper - no limo service, no lounge, no bar, no ifbt, no revivals, no flat bed.

I know that when I have travelled upstairs on the 744, PE has been good, with our own dedicated crew, etc. The same service should be available regardless of the aircraft type, as it seems there is a gulf between PE on the 744 and PE on the Airbus fleet.

I think PE starts to look less attractive when some airlines are offering 35" seat pitch at the front of Economy (so first dibs at meals too) to their FF Elites booked on any Economy fare.

Enhancing VS' PE service by some small amount will also look better against BA's WTP. (I know VS can't resist getting one up on BA!)

quote:Lap top power in all seats would be hard as we have to distribute the leads ourselves. This would also slow things down in economy but we are slowly bringing lap top power into premium. Just having them in one seat in each row could possibly lead to seating problems I guess.


VS seems to be the only airline which still dishes out the Empower leads.

Pretty much everyone else lets the pax bring their own power adapters. Mine is about 2 feet of cable which plugs directly from the Empower socket into my laptop. No wall-warts or cable-blimps, nothing to trip on either. The laptop drinks directly off the Empower socket, and it was designed to work that way.

The laptop power on some aircraft is now vanilla 110VAC/60Hz, fed via an androgynous EU/US socket, built into the seat. I know that newer Air Canada and Lufthansa aircraft are using this system, as are some of the BA European Airbus fleet.

As far as socket locations in Y go, I was thinking of one socket per pair of seats. So a bay of two has one socket, a bay of three or four has two sockets.

quote:
Great suggestions though, especially the bacon butties!


They should be loaded on all flights (with enough for flight attendant snacks) ;).

I completely forgot about nose and belly cams. They would rock!

Mike
#36890 by BlackCat
19 Jul 2004, 08:17
Lose the airbuses. Buy some more 747s. Won't happen, unfortunately.

Definitely would not want to see paying J customers have their service devalued by op-ups in the lounge, or a PE service closer to UC. Unless of course those of us up the front got a few more services to keep things special. :D

BC
#36892 by AlanA
19 Jul 2004, 09:26
Bc
I agree with you that there has to be a dividing line between Uc and PE, or I would like to rename it Mid class.
Economy should have bigger seats and better legroom, and it has been shown with the over popularity of PE that the demand is there, with an increase in prices to compensate for the loss of seats, PE/Mid class could have seperate food from econ, hell, even the old UC seats!, Vs could offer PE/mids access to Priority pass lounges, but what I am stuck on, is what else would you want in UC? What is not available which other First's give? what different from other airlines first Class could VS add? Any ideas?
Until you can enhance (though many would say UCS is the biggest enhancement for years) UC, you cannot move the other two classes up.
My concern is that in European short haul, the trend is towards the bus style disenhancement, and from reading other forums, people like BA have started to do this on Long haul, as more and more pax want low cost not high frills. It has been said that the VS experiance HAS eroded over the past few years, from what is in the comfort packs and Childrens Kid Packs, to the food selection.
#36894 by HighFlyer
19 Jul 2004, 10:24
Who agrees with me on the basis that extra inches in Y will not encourage me to fly in that cabin over W? To me, flying in W is more tham just the leg-room, its the whole experience of having a small cabin just for us W pax, and i would still want to travel in it.

Give me 38 pax over 300 odd anyday!!

I am fairly happy with the VS service, my real plea would be for consistency. I have had some fab flights and then the odd occasion where that isnt the case can really show.

I also love my potatoes, but would like to see another meal choice if possible. I would also be in favour of upgrading the W meal service, perhaps by losing the trolleys in favour of hand service? but i know its unlikely to happen.

I like the option to book the club house for £30 through Virgin Flying Club and not just Virgin Holiday customers. That would be fair if it were to FC customers surely? But still restrict it to a few pax each day.

And another huge vote for the 747's from me! Although if they do a good job with the A380's things may change ...

:)
#36896 by Ian
19 Jul 2004, 11:15
Economy = Cheapskate
Premium Economy = Snobbish Cheapskate

Change the names of the classes to something a little 'classier'.
#36900 by British
19 Jul 2004, 11:48
I did'nt know the duck had a name "Lewis" cool

B
#36904 by Boo Boo
19 Jul 2004, 12:08
Everyone has come up with such great ideas, don't think I can really add much - so will just say which appeal to me the most :) :

1. Having a items which are constantly available on the freedom menu - i.e. Bacon Butty (a la BA First Class). Yes, could often fancy a bacon butty on a Westbound flight...

2. Yes, nose cam would be really interesting (can't imagine what Crawley resident's do in their gardens to want privacy from that height...)
3. Yes, listening to the cockpit transmissions can be fun (did that on a UA flight coming to land at LAX - not something I would want to do all the time, but an interesting change...)
4. Yes power sockets throughout the plane (whenever we travel economy, not having laptop power is my husband's biggest complaint). Provide the power, passengers provide their own leads (although stocking a few in Duty Free would be handy...)

Economy is ALWAYS tight (especially if you are the poor s*d who ends up with a v:port box under the seat infront of me - I may only be 5'4", but WHERE are I supposed to put my feet??? [:(][:(][:(] ). Otherwise Economy is fine. Have never flown PE, so don't have comments on it. Like UC pretty much as it is (may have more comments after flying suites, for the first time, next week).

Boo
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